3 Flash Creators - Comparison

[FLASHPULSE]

Ok, hope this topic doesn't get deleted, at least before I get a few responses in.

We all know of the 3 main flash creating programs (KoolMoves, 3DFA and Swish) that are at a very good price. My question is, why are there so many Swish users compared to KM or 3DFA?

Swish is a ok program and 3DFA in my mind is better then Swish but KM, to me, has the best setup and doesn't take to much time at all to learn.

Not to put Swish down or anything but the setup isn't that great and one other thing I won't mention about Swish (or this topic will surely be deleted).

If there is anyone here that might use Swish as well as KM and enjoys it just as much, let me know if I'm missing something here.

P.S. The reason I posted this is becuase I went to there forum and they seem to have post going on all day. Maybe I'm wrong and they just have more active users.

[necromanthus]

Johnie did a great comparison (I can't remember the thread's name).
If you wanna know my opinion,here's my TOP100:
1) Flash (MX)
2) KoolMoves
3) ...
4) ...
.
.
.
100)...
:) ;) :p

[FLASHPULSE]

Nice top 100 (2) there necromaniac :p . I would agree but I have never used Flash MX. I'm a poorman, can't afford something like MX. :D Maybe I'll have to save up for it though.

[dcahall]

Let me thorw in some comments from a rookie (at least in the Flash world).:cool:

Some time ago, I used Swish but that was only because we wanted to add some animated text on a site. It work great for that but I would not see developing anything other than that with it.:rolleyes:

I was not aware of 3DFA until your post so I went and checked it out. My reaction was:
1. The interface looks really neat but a bit confusing.
2. They have some VERY neat drawing capability (however, it took me a couple of minutes to figure out how to get to them)
3. They have some very neat text effects
4. I would like to be able to control the animation path like they do.
5. I do not think I would try to develop a complete site or (as I am doing) product demos with that tool (my initial reaction was one of confusion).:o

I have copy of Flash MX but IMHO, it has a steep learning curve.

That brings me to KoolMoves. I am working on some product demos for a web site and wanted to "tell the story" about the product in a manner much similar to developing and entire site. In fact, I have kind of stolen one of the web site samples and adapted it to fit my needs. Although I have found a couple of bugs and submitted them to Bob, the program is VERY EASY to learn and has gotten me a long way down the road. I have even set up one section of my product story that calls some movies that I built with a tool called ViewletBuilder that allowed me to capture mouse movements so I can actually embed demos of some portions of the software.

This is getting long winded but (and I want to thank KoolMoves for allowing this thread), I think the other two products probably have more users because the people who are buying it want to augment a site with some flashy looking stuff but not develop anything very comprehensive (I do not have anything to back that up - jus an opinion).

Again, MHO, I believe KoolMoves is one of the best buys I have found on the internet. It is worth every penny. I also like this forum even though a lot of the action script is beyond me (for now). I would have to labor for a very long time with Flash MX to create what I have done with KoolMoves.:D

Bob and staff.........Keep it coming............:cool:

[FLASHPULSE]

Thanks for the reply dcahall.:) I would have to agree on your comment on 3DFA. V3.72 of 3DFA was easier to learn and since the upgrades it has changed a few things here and there which in my mind wasn't best for the program. So I've kinda quit using it for some time now but would like to get some use out of it, since I did pay for it.

Anyhow, ever since I purchased KM, there has not been a day that I haven't at least toyed with it. Best program for it's price, features and learning curve.

Maybe I'll never know the answer that I'm trying to get from this topic but it sure boggles my mind. "Why do so many people use Swish?" :confused: We may never know.

[johnie]

I did break down the features of the those tools and also included Nione Imperator and Live Motion in the feature break down.

I also pointed out that all the tools mentioned had quite different workflows and UIs (User Interfaces) and that depending on who you asked you would get a different answer as to which tool has the better UI and workflow (I also mentioned that I am not a Fan of the MM/SWiSH Timeline way of handling events and animations hence am very very biased against these tools and against timeline driven tools that use a timeline as the primary control in general) .

[necromanthus]

Originally posted by johnie

I also mentioned that I am not a Fan of the MM Timeline way of handling events and animations

:confused:
My opinion: allmost perfect (for me)!
I agree that BOB did a great job here (KM Timeline is amazing),but I am a "single keyframe" movie fan,so ...
;)

[johnie]

I agree, the Frame controls/KM Score/Timeline that is in KoolMoves is near perfect for me also.

Something else to consider is the rate and manner in which upgrades and new functionality is released.

Bob typically releases fixes and improvements on a fairly regular basis, not once a year or every two yaers like MM, Adobe, and others.

The version numbers also reflect the improved functionality/fixes - 4.0 and 4.1 has some change s(SVG Import/Export) where as 3.0 and 4.0 has a lot of change while 4.0 and 4.0.1 has just minor bug fixes. http://www.koolmoves.com/whatsnew.html shows developement from 3.10.1 so you can see what was added when. There typically isn't a jump from a x.0 to Y.0 like other tools and the numbering is fairly honest (No jumping to keep up with the other tool numberings or starting at a high number- Note niether 3DFA, KM, or SWiSH did this but rather CoffeeCup Firestarter did, BTW they now claim a 6.5 version).

[Bob Hartzell]

I would assume that releases for most big name products are tied to asking for more money; hence, releases do not occur too frequently.

[dcahall]

Not necessarily. Pretty much depends on the product and type of upgrade and whether or not you have a maintenance agreement. Many products also offer free upgrades for the first year and then charge after that.

[docree]

I used to (actually still use) a product called Multimedia Fusion from ClickTeam (sold by IMSI). I bought the product for about 60$. Clickteam would offer patches for the program once a year. The patches included the bug fixes and minor added features.
I swore by the software (except it did not do animation as well as I hoped; more of a game creation program).
I even led many people to buying the software.
Suddenly, ClickTeam offered a final upgrade cause they focused on another product. This upgrade would cost between 200 - 300 $$$. Much more than original price. I decided to stick with the older mildly buggy version. I am still a fan of theirs, though they left me dazed and confused in the digital dust.
Doc'Ree

[necromanthus]

Originally posted by Bob Hartzell
I would assume that releases for most big name products are tied to asking for more money; hence, releases do not occur too frequently.

That's right !
It's very hard to be in competition with "monsters" such as Macromedia or Adobe.
Anyhow,"big names" ---> "expensive products" ---> "less customers"
So ... KoolMoves can be the winner (soon) !
:mrpimp:

[johnie]

It depends on the company and what you are purchasing.

Corel typically offers Bug fixes on a regular basis (Corel Office 10 had 2 free service packs). MS offers free Windows bug fixes on a three year basis. Office gets service packed once in a while.

I use some rather expensive niche software for work and it is a yearly fee for upgrades (1/5 of the initial cost as the maint fee). The upgrades are numbered based on the amount of extra functionality or fixes in them. Traditionally software upgrades are numbered much like this.

Some companies like MM, Corel, Microsoft, and Adobe will put out a # version (Although the Fad of last year was to give your software a Letter code) every 2 years like MS and may offer bug fixes in the form of Service packs for free (Corel and Microsoft did) although you have to look in the right places for the service packs.

[dcahall]

I think we have all gotten way off the original topic which was more about why isn't KM more popular than SWISH and 3DFA.

Again, my humble opinion is that the other tools a little bit more niche more oriented toward animating a sub portion of a site rather than being a more full fledged site orietented tool like KM.

Although 3dFA has some neat drawing tools, better control of text, and paths for animations, I still like KM the best. KM makes it easier to do the eitire task, not just a portion.

And yes, the inital price and free upgrades makes it a real bargin in today's run away software costs.

I have long felt that MS could make more money by dropping their price. Think of how many more people would have legitimate copies if they could afford their product in the beginning.

I hope KM does not change their model.

[FLASHPULSE]

I don't think KM would change. BOB is always giving a deal of $40 instead of $50 (which is a steal). I think creators like Bob wants to make money off his hard work and he should but I think he enjoys seeing others peoples creations with KM, That's why he offers it at such a deal.

Bob, if I have said anything here that you don't agree with, then edit this post or delete it. Sorry to put words in your mouth. This is just the idea of you that I have gotten.

[dinkledorf]

Before you write off Swish entirely.

Thought you might want to know that
they're in beta testing for the next
release of Swish which WILL include
actionscripting as well as a LOT of
other changes.

Take a look in the Swish Help forum
here.

[RazoRmedia]

johnie, where is this comparison thread?

[johnie]

Originally posted by RazoRmedia
johnie, where is this comparison thread?

Its like 10 or 20 pages back on this forum.

http://www.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=444039&highlight=Swish+Live+Motion+3dfa

The comparison is from April and this was before the KM 4.0 Series.

Add SVG Import/Export options to the list of KM features that are new, and not in the others, as well as several new features introduced in the later KM 3.X and 4.X series.

[necromanthus]

Is getting worm ...
Let's see what we are "talking" about: Flash MX,Swish,3DFA,Corel,Microsoft,Adobe,Multimedia Fusion.
I like this discussion.
But,better,let's talk about KoolMoves (or about girls :p )
p.s.
you can't compare a glass of water,a glass of wine and a glass of scotch.
:mrpimp:

[dinkledorf]

Originally posted by necromanthus
p.s.
you can't compare a glass of water,a glass of wine and a glass of scotch.
:mrpimp:

Ah, but a glass of chocolate pudding is a horse of another
color whose eggs deserve not to be counted before they're
hatched unlike the best laid plans of mice and men who,
at best, lead lives of quiet desperation.

Cool Running, Cool Whip, Kool Moves...who's keeping
track anyways...

And as the crowd collectively muses "What the fu...,"
He mounts his mighty steed Tangent and veers off
into the Underpass...

But...

I digress.

[necromanthus]

Originally posted by dinkledorf
Cool Running, Cool Whip, Kool Moves...who's keeping
track anyways...

And as the crowd collectively muses "What the fu...,"
He mounts his mighty steed Tangent and veers off
into the Underpass...

But...
I digress.

I think that Kool Behavior sounds better.
Here's a tip: KoolMoves is the glass of wine (the scotch is not for us ... too expensive !)
Feel free to find a lot of glasses of water around.
cheers
;)

[FLASHPULSE]

Originally posted by necromanthus
But,better,let's talk about KoolMoves (or about girls :p ):mrpimp:

OK necro, KM is like when you find a nice hooker at a good price. The rest you get what you pay for or you get the crack hoe who is over charging. :p

[docree]

All in all we never really got off topic about the popularity of KoolMoves.
We just primarly gave our two cents in...
All relating to cash and cost which is the sole priority of popularity.
Money is the root of all evil, and "man" needs roots.
When it comes down to it.
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
(no bad meaning here)
KoolMoves is a great software to have in an arsonal of multimedia software.
(even though it damn near does everything flash can do now)
I have not seen KoolMoves being advertised anywhere as a
Simple, fast, one-button-click, end all solution to all your multimedia needs.
That's what people want(the as seen on tv junk).

Also, a ridiculous biz notion is to buy high price software;
cause if it's expensive it must be good.
(Sometimes it is easier to get the larger amount of
money back from jobed company than to get the "little bit" of money back.)
___________________
I see flashpulse has been with my ladies. True player.
___________________
Oh so quiet. So quiet. Oh, the desperation.
___________________
Girls: How far below a belly button can a guy
lick a girl before it becomes obscene?
___________________
Celebrating post 91.
</mindless drivel> Doc'Ree

[necromanthus]

Originally posted by docree
___________________
I see flashpulse has been with my ladies. True player.
___________________

Celebrating post 91.
</mindless drivel> Doc'Ree

Ha ha ha ... :p
p.s.
I have to finish my idea:
I can't make you happy with a glass of wine if you're looking for
a beer (or a scotch)
:mrpimp:

[ShocktheMonkey]

I've been using 3dfa for over a year now.It's a great program for adding spice to webpages, making pretty cool animations, or designing games, but doesn't compare to Macromedia when it comes to doing cartoon-type frame animations.Most of the image manipulation must be done in a paint or image program and then imported. If I could afford it, and had a more powerful pc than my Compaq Presario, I would use Macromedia MX.
That said, I just downloaded the trial version of KM, and within a couple of hours, I have been able to do things that just aren't possible with 3dfa, and are comparable to MX: (using bones).
A few more beers, and I can recycle the cans to buy the program...yee-haw! It's all about priorities.