New Flash 8 Studio [Archive] - Flash Kit Community Forums

flash_joker

08-08-2005, 08:57 AM

Hey flash kit members,

Is it just myself, or can you see adobe taking over macromedia a huge disaster? After watching the overview for the new flash 8 the only new changes made are for design and video elements. What about enhancements for the animaters and developer’s, these people are the core behind the whole flash existence? Livemotion was a good example of adobe’s animation and development potential for the web. What a heap of ****!!!.

You won’t see me buying the upgrade.

D.

swampy

08-08-2005, 09:13 AM

the last version had major developments in it for programmers/developers. I guess animators will have to wait their turn until the next version

PAlexC

08-08-2005, 09:27 AM

It's just you. Adobe isn't stupid. They're not gutting the product teams.

If you watched the feature tour you'd see some decent features for animators, like ink modes, effects and tween curves. Not to mention alpha support in video.

MX2K4 was the big release for developers with AS2.0 dropping.

flash_joker

08-08-2005, 09:33 AM

Mabie i should scrap up on my livemotion skills before moving from MX2004 PRO to flash 8 or later. Adobe will butcher a good piece of software just give it time.

Planet

08-08-2005, 09:33 AM

Check out the News Forum (http://www.flashkit.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=1) for more details on this release.

gSOLO_01

08-08-2005, 09:42 AM

/delurk

I'm curious as to what features you would like to see for animators. There are a bunch of features packed into the IDE this release that I could see animators taking advantage of.

That goes the same for developers. Have you fully explored the capabilities of AS2 and integration with server-side tech &c? The performance improvements coupled with cacheAsBitmap alone are enough to get this developer to upgrade.

Asclepeos

08-08-2005, 09:58 AM

an obvious troll.

Vincent26381

08-08-2005, 10:43 AM

I can't wait for Flash file up- and downloads. Then finally you can develop full featured applications in the browser.

aversion

08-08-2005, 10:59 AM

Mabie i should scrap up on my livemotion skills before moving from MX2004 PRO to flash 8 or later. Adobe will butcher a good piece of software just give it time.
Oh please, stop trolling.

mg33

08-08-2005, 06:30 PM

Quite ironic that these new improvements to Flash were things people wanted before Flash 5 came out. Everyone wanted aspects of Photoshop combined with Flash to take much of the hard work out of it.

robbmcaulay

08-08-2005, 06:32 PM

bleeeeeeeh

Haven't seen that name in aaaaaages!

aversion

08-08-2005, 06:32 PM

I think those people are happy now, but people like me that wish it would focus on being an authoring environment where graphic elements are imported are a little worried that it's becoming bloated.

The thing that I always remember from those wish threads are the endless requests for flash to come with a 3d engine....

stevietat

08-08-2005, 09:59 PM

From what I've seen I'm extremely impressed with this new flash version. All of the new bitmap rendering aspects are amazing, some of the movies I've seen could easily be confused for director movies.

ie:
http://www.rgblaster.de/ff/f8toys3.html
http://bellat.pair.com/maximov2/f8/blur01.swf
http://www.margaris.de/flash8/bitmap/bitmapcache.html

For more droolworthy viewing try this list:
http://www.franto.com/blog2/collected-links-to-maelstrom-examples

I can definitely see animators making great use of this type of stuff. Game developers should be freaking with the new bitmap capabilities. I know some of the built in filters have potential to be overused and cheesy, but I can definitely see them being put to some interesting uses.

Video integration is a lot more indepth, and looks like they're also giving you more control over text rendering and appearance. Text is looking far less blurry.

Best of all, they've gone back to the old style of 'undo' in the authoring environment which they screwed up in MX2004.:)

Definitely one of their more impressive releases.

FlashGuru

08-08-2005, 10:09 PM

Have patience young child. Dont be so hasty to make assumptions about something you oviously dont know alot about. There are alot of things for developers and animators in this release. Namely:

Animators:

Custom Easing
Filters
Blend Modes
Object Drawing Model

Developers:

Script Assist
BitmapData API
Bitmap Caching + opaqueBackground + scrollRect
flash.geom.* API's
Movieclip transformations (mc.transform)
File Upload/Download

and lots lots more....

Blips

08-08-2005, 10:35 PM

PCRIDE

08-08-2005, 11:03 PM

here is an email i got with great screens

Flash 8 Screenshots
http://www.flashmagazine.com/1132.htm

Flash 8 Review
http://www.flashmagazine.com/1131.htm

Flash 8 revealed
http://www.flashmagazine.com/1130.htm

Preorder your copy of Flash 8 today
http://www.flashmagazine.com/1129.htm

NeoSwiff shaping up
http://www.flashmagazine.com/1126.htm

SUSHI Multiuser Server Version 2.2 released http://www.flashmagazine.com/1125.htm

Flash Player 8 Public Beta
http://www.flashmagazine.com/1123.htm

Flash Forward Film Festival Winners
http://www.flashmagazine.com/1122.htm

The page is not working now for some reason, but check it later.

admedia

08-08-2005, 11:13 PM

nice With the new upload functions, the Browse-dialogue can be triggered directly from Flash using the simple command "browse();" That's it. Only two windows for novice users to relate to. There's plenty of events to listen for such as "onProgress" that will allow you to make progress bars and "onHTTPError", "onIOError" and "onSecurityError" to allow for error handling.

hanratty21

08-08-2005, 11:14 PM

*drools*

gerbick

08-09-2005, 12:59 AM

I just want better stability, a Library palette that remembers it's position automatically - I don't wanna hear that whole layout, do this, do that... blah blah yackity smackity... do it automatic, dammit.

The other features... I'm a PS fanatic, so those are all pluses for me. But I just want it to work better than MX 2004 did.

admedia

08-09-2005, 06:54 AM

a Library palette that remembers it's position automaticallyyou can pin the current library so that it stays on screen
Great links guys.
Thanks.

PAlexC

08-09-2005, 04:36 PM

I just want better stability, a Library palette that remembers it's position automatically -

Funny, they made a big deal out of that in the podcast.

gerbick

08-09-2005, 04:37 PM

now only if they'd give me a f'n discount.

PAlexC

08-09-2005, 04:39 PM

I hear there's an alarm that goes off in their offices when the word 'discount' is uttered. The only time I've seen jack from them or Adobe, aside from educational pricing, is "Save 600 bucks on studio when you spend $4k+ on a new PowerMac."

phacker

08-09-2005, 05:28 PM

I am animator and I am not impressed.

gerbick

08-09-2005, 05:30 PM

care to explain why, phacker? I'm actually wondering what people are taking from this version... I'm just too skeptical to listen to the hype-mongers and MM boot lickers to listen to anything other than some raw, unsolicited comments.

phacker

08-09-2005, 05:48 PM

The only thing that I would appreciate is the improved stroke/line tool. I am not looking for more weight to the program just to add little special filters that most of us have already figured out how to do in vector since the beginning. I was hoping for a little more than the improved line tool and ease in/ease out function. I used to preorder each new version, but since MX2004, I take a hesitant view of things. It didn't work well for me it was bloated with newby tools, that I would never use, and components which I don't use with my animation unless I absolutely need to because they bog down my web delivery. MX broke the shared library thing for me. I had to rebuild over 200 files on my site to make them work again. I'll never even go there again, because Macromedia never even acknowledged that it was a bug. I remember how lean and mean Flash four was, it was easy to download even on a dialup and the player could be installed without a reboot. I am sure the innovations for the developers and programers are great, but I only use a few of those. I draw and animate, make it easier for me, but don't think of me as an idiot that needs a filter to make a drop shadow.

Don't get me wrong I use MX now (but I'll never use shared library assets again), but not MX2004, my computer is older and I had memory system resources issues with it. I can only imagine what I would have with eight with all it's little filter effects. I don't want Photoshop built into Flash, I want to animate.

Pat

phacker

08-09-2005, 06:04 PM

Flash Professional 8 enables creative professionals to design and develop interactive content that provides customers with the most engaging online experiences. Flash Professional 8 now includes unique tools for designing graphic effects, animation, text, video, and content for mobile devices. New effects, including drop shadow, blur, glow, bevel, and color adjust, permit more compelling designs with pixel-perfect control and precision. The new custom easing tool enables precise control over animation. The revolutionary FlashType™ font-rendering engine ensures clear, high-quality text. These new expressive features raise the bar for the quality of business and individual websites and improve digital experiences.

Drop shadow, blur, glow, bevel and and color adjust...I am just holding my sides in ecstasy!!!! I've always needed someone to do these things for me. NOT in case someone takes this seriously!

The font rendering engine they should have fixed three versions back. Everyone has *****ed about it.

phacker

08-09-2005, 06:15 PM

Sorry Gerbick you shouldn't have ask me to elaborate.

Pat

admedia

08-09-2005, 06:15 PM

Phacker, I am not sure what it is but it seems they have done some things in the drawing area. Custom New stroke possibilities, advanced gradient control, Object DrawingLook at some of those example movies stevietat posted too. I think it looks like a good upgrade.

FlashGuru

08-09-2005, 06:16 PM

gerbick

08-09-2005, 06:21 PM

Sorry Gerbick you shouldn't have me to elaborate.
Oh hell no. I'm glad you did.

phacker

08-09-2005, 06:31 PM

I think you will be pleasantly suprised Phacker.

Custom Easing for starters.

Blend Modes, alpha masks.

Stroke joins.

Gradient Strokes.

Filters - tweenable.

Object drawing mode.

Gradient enhancements.

New Library Panel workflow.

Tabbed Panels/ Custom Panel Grouping

Thousands of bug fixes.

And much much more...

What is much much more? Custom Panel Groupings you could do that before if you learned to use the tools. I don't need someone to hold my hand or bevel my shapes. I need tools that are supposed to work the way they should. Filters...."I don't need your stinking "filters". Gradient enhancements, I've never been unable to do anything with gradients that I wanted to do, with the Gradient tools, the Gradient transform and interactive gradient tool. I don't know why you guys need it dumbed down.

Stroke joins...never had a problem...what's yours?

Filters tweenable, what the H*lll learn to animate.

phacker

08-09-2005, 06:34 PM

Alpha masks, learn to see. I know why they weren't included in the early versions because if you thought about what you were trying to accomplish a gradient overlay with a zero alpha would have accomplished the same thing for you, but you need to learn how to construct things.

gSOLO_01

08-09-2005, 06:36 PM

I don't need someone to hold my hand or bevel my shapes.

I'm curious as to what features for animators are missing; from what you've seen with F8 and experienced with earlier versions of Flash. Macromedia put a lot of effort into addressing the needs / requests of designers this release after MX04s focus on developers [IMO]. Unfortunately they can't address everyone's needs of course, but offering up suggestions would be the next direction to head.

phacker

08-09-2005, 06:49 PM

One of my biggest gripes is the fact that snap to object is the the default setting when drawing. I don't how many times I have to backtrack and unclick that. It's really minor but it is annoying.

I do like the improved stroke thing where the lines don't have to be rounded, that's an improvement, but not enough for me to buy it. And I hope they fixed the undo thing they broke in MX2004.

I've used Flash for so long, that I've learned to work with it's limitations. Drop shadows and bevels are somethings that an illustrator/animator can contruct they don't need a filter to do it for them. Blurs might be a good thing, but so many beginning animators use them just because....

And I don't just use Flash for animation I use it as a vector creation tool, for logos and static design.

admedia

08-09-2005, 06:54 PM

One of my biggest gripes is the fact that snap to object is the the default setting when drawing.

hmm... not to nitpick, I am using MX 2004 / Win. The default here is snap align and snap to guides.

phacker

08-09-2005, 06:54 PM

I think the biggest headache I've had with Flash as an animator is that the player drops graphic frames when it overloads...not sure there's an easy solution to that, but I've fought it for ever.

phacker

08-09-2005, 06:56 PM

hmm... not to nitpick, I am using MX 2004 / Win. The default here is snap align and snap to guides.

Are you creating vector art? Or importing bitmaps.

admedia

08-09-2005, 06:57 PM

Are you creating vector art? Or importing bitmaps.

Click on pen tool and draw. Does it matter though... I open flash and that's what it's set to.

Also for static stuff or anything more complex I use Freehand. I don't think Flash has the power for well designed drawings. Maybe this version will help that some.

gSOLO_01

08-09-2005, 07:00 PM

I think the biggest headache I've had with Flash as an animator is that the player drops graphic frames when it overloads...not sure there's an easy solution to that, but I've fought it for ever.

I'm not sure of your target audience but each release comes with some pretty hefty performance improvements. You would benefit just by publishing with MX04+; even more so if you targeted the latest player. With F8 you could probably get a nice boost with the new bitmap caching feature.

phacker

08-09-2005, 07:01 PM

Click on pen tool and draw. Does it matter though... I open flash and that's what it's set to.

Also for static stuff or anything more complex I use Freehand. I don't think Flash has the power for well designed drawings. Maybe this version will help that some.

When you do that in Flash MX the default setting is snap to object. I took MX2004 off my machine so I can't check that right now.

Take a look at my portfolio on Scooter's World and see if I need to switch over.

phacker

08-09-2005, 07:04 PM

I'm not sure of your target audience but each release comes with some pretty hefty performance improvements. You would benefit just by publishing with MX04+; even more so if you targeted the latest player. With F8 you could probably get a nice boost with the new bitmap caching feature.

I work mostly in vector so not sure that would apply. I also understand the Flash Player 5 has the highest infilitration rate and since I am not using the new components or actionscript why should I make my viewers download a huge player that requires rebooting.

gSOLO_01

08-09-2005, 07:13 PM

Do you draw for each frame of your animation or do you have a library of items that you move/reuse on the screen? Bitmap caching is in part for taking vectors and allowing the Player to not have to redraw what is on the screen every frame. Take a look at some of the examples posted earlier and notice the dramatic playback fps changes when bitmap caching is used.

why should I make my viewers download a huge player that requires rebooting.

It would, in conjunction with publishing for the later players, help alleviate some of the issues you seem to be having ("the player drops graphic frames when it overloads").

FlashGuru

08-09-2005, 07:15 PM

I think the biggest headache I've had with Flash as an animator is that the player drops graphic frames when it overloads...not sure there's an easy solution to that, but I've fought it for ever.

The new performance features such as Bitmap Caching and movieclip.opaqueBackground will more than likely solve this problem for you.

But as gSolo said, they cant make everybody happy. Guess your just one of the forgotten ones. Regardless, there is no point in ranting about what it doesnt do for you, send requests to the wishlist and if you dont like the new version, dont buy it! Simple. You dont have to go and tell everybody that your not going to buy it.

admedia

08-09-2005, 07:16 PM

Take a look at my portfolio on Scooter's World and see if I need to switch over.

Those looks cool. I am going to have to go through these a bit later for entertainment.

although it looks like they could use some bevels and dropshadows though. :|

j/k

PAlexC

08-09-2005, 07:17 PM

Sounds like you're frustrated with Flash growing up past being an animation tool. Valid, but it shouldn't be surprising. People developing RIA's don't need or want to learn how to animate, they want to create slick UI's, so having effects in there without having to do them all by hand is welcome. There's a whole other audience being catered to.

What else could they add to help animators, but add animation specific tools? I don't think that's their priority. Nothing is stopping animators from doing what they've been doing.

As far as bloat, I haven't seen it. Yeah, the Flash Application is bigger and eats more, but that would've happened anyway. The new 8 player installs right through the existing one, same hooks that Central uses. I'm scratching my head to think of the last time I had to reboot when updating the Player. 6?

Really, what I think you're asking is for Macromedia to cater to an audience that's not their core anymore, and who aren't going to use the product in the way they want to position it. It still works just fine for that purpose though, you don't need to publish to 8, they're not cutting you off.

I don't get why you're so peeved about it.

phacker

08-09-2005, 07:17 PM

I am using the vector capabilities of Flash. No I don't draw every frame, I do reuse symbols, but bitmap caching would have to be explained to me in more detail, before I would require my viewers to download a new player. Since I am not using bitmaps.

gSOLO_01

08-09-2005, 07:21 PM

Ya, I'm saying bitmap caching, sorry. To be more clear, I mean caching as bitmap.

phacker

08-09-2005, 07:25 PM

Really, what I think you're asking is for Macromedia to cater to an audience that's not their core anymore, and who aren't going to use the product in the way they want to position it. It still works just fine for that purpose though, you don't need to publish to 8, they're not cutting you off.

I don't get why you're so peeved about it.

I am not asking them to do that, but don't ask me to force them to download a bloated player just to make my stuff run right. I am not doing video or other cpu intensive stuff. I don't make them gasp, or swoon I just want to do my little animations. I am not peeved. I just really loved Flash and Macromedia in the beginning. I am not going to ask my little old ladies to upgrade for nothing. And that's my market.

What the hey.

Pat

FlashGuru

08-09-2005, 07:28 PM

Bitmap Caching:

Turn it on in the IDE in the Properties Inspector for individual movieclips that contain complex vector data or using actionscript: mc.cacheAsBitmap=true

The player uses the vector renderer to blit a bitmap representation into memory, that represents the visual state of the movieclip. From then on, until the contents of the movieclip change, or the transformation matrix of a movieclip changes, or the bounds of the movie clip change, the vector renderer no longer has to update anything inside that movieclip. It simply copies the bitmap from memory straight to the stage, reducing the amount of work the renderer has to do each frame.

This will greatly improve the framerate of complex animations. There are also other things you can do to increase the performance even more, such as downgrading the internal bitmap representation oif Bitmap Caching from 32 bit(ARGB) to 24 bit (RGB) using movieclip.opaqueBackground, by removing the alpha channel that shows movieclips underneat the current movieclip and replacing it with a solid background color.

You should also note that Bitmap Caching makes your Flash Movie use more memory, so use it wisely.

phacker

08-09-2005, 07:29 PM

What is Macromedia's core now, I'd be interested, have any stats?

phacker

08-09-2005, 07:31 PM

I rarely use bitmaps. I design in Vector.....VECTOR.

PAlexC

08-09-2005, 07:32 PM

Go to their site and read the spin on Flash and poke through the developer's center. Go look at Flex, Captivate, Central, Breeze, FlashPaper and Flash forms in CF 7. I'm not saying they're abandoning animators, but it's been pretty damn obvious for awhile that they're pushing Flash in a certain direction, namely RIA's to compete with Ajax and Applets for server-side interaction, as well as video deployment.

( Cache as bitmap CACHES vector data (what you draw) as a BITMAP in the player, making it run faster, it DOES effect you, greatly. )

Really, go find a 3rd party tool like Toon-Boom if you're that annoyed.

indivision

08-09-2005, 07:39 PM

Phacker, it sounds like you'll be fine to just stick with the version you have and keep going. The features you have downplayed (like the filters) aren't intended to dumb down the application, they allow developers to create dynamic content with those effects. This is going to be huge. Just one example, glows on text seem to be a designers favorite thing to do, but it's currently difficult to recreate that look without importing it as a graphic. Then, the client wants to change the word and you have to go through the whole import process again. Flash 8 will eliminate that.

Within the context of flash as an application becoming more powerful, 8 looks awesome. I can't wait to get it. Within maybe the smaller context of an animator who uses it for very limited things, it might not be a big deal (but hopefully runs more smoothly). I don't think you can complain if what MM has done make leaps and bounds less work for most of the people in the way that they are using it.

Anyway, Phacker, your animations are hilarious. Keep using whatever version you are using. Good work!

FlashGuru

08-09-2005, 07:39 PM

*lol*, yes i know. Most people do, that is what Flash Player is good at - VECTORS!

Read my explanation of Bitmap Caching above. It doesnt affect the visual display of your movie at all, other than pixel snapping.

All you have to do is when you have finished your design. Turn bitmap caching on for movie clips that contain complex vector data and trust me, you will see an improvement.

gerbick

08-09-2005, 07:40 PM

PAlexC, et al. I didn't get Phacker to expound on his grievances to make him a target. It's just that the second a person posts something other than the honeymoon of bliss that Flash 8 proposes, he's going to get attacked?

I mean... I've ranted ad nauseum about how Flash MX 2004 uses XML in the most odd way... and limited as hell. I just find it's workflow - of the program - so odd at times, and never has it been something where I think they did their homework or listened to people like me. But I'm not their core audience.

I got Photoshop for my bliss sessions.

But Flash... I just wear it's just too clunky for my needs/uses, but it's a necessary evil to maintain.

Don't get me started on Director. That's something that I regretted every time I used it, but hey... clients pay the bills.

admedia

08-09-2005, 08:11 PM

WTF?

This isn't a help thread.
This is a discussion.
Bring us back to the Lounge!

FlashGuru

08-09-2005, 08:13 PM

It's a Flash 8 related discussion. Hence it's in the flash 8 forum.

stevietat

08-09-2005, 10:03 PM

What else could they add to help animators, but add animation specific tools? I don't think that's their priority. Nothing is stopping animators from doing what they've been doing.

I'm wondering the same thing :confused: Most of the improvements I've seen have been towards adressing animation possibilities (or at least ease of implementation with regards to some of the filters) and animation performance.

I hardly find the new player bloated. I had it downloaded and installed faster than the time it takes to load up your average flash website. Nice thing is a lot of these new animation features should also help to reduce filesize. You won't need to bloat your file with extra blurred bitmaps for one example.

If you won't make use of these features, I agree, don't waste your money. For doing logos, illustrations and layouts, I don't really see any point. Although I'm curious as to why you wouldn't want to use illustrator or photoshop, or the macromedia equivalents for that sort of work.

admedia

08-09-2005, 11:40 PM

ok, just a thought... since Adobe and Macromedia merged could this be part of the reason we are seeing all of these Photoshopesque features in the new version?

or am I crazy to think that?

csdstudio

08-09-2005, 11:53 PM

I rarely use bitmaps. I design in Vector.....VECTOR.

Dude, it takes VECTOR and caches it "as bitmap", reducing the processor requirement to move that VECTOR around the stage. That feature helps people who use VECTOR. Bitmaps are already cached as bitmaps, because well, they are bitmaps to begin with. :D

>flashl!ght<

08-10-2005, 12:26 AM

I am stoked.

Curve editor for animations?

Blend Modes?

Live effects?

I have not personally upgraded to MX'04. It took me awhile to even download the trial, just so I could open clients messed up MX'04 projects and fix them in MX. I'd lost faith in MM, to be frank.

But I just watched the product tours of Studio 8, and it's already in my shopping cart.

PAlexC

08-10-2005, 01:35 AM

Drawing enhancements. (http://weblogs.macromedia.com/md/archives/2005/08/the_lesser-know.cfm) Still room for work, but not forgotten.

admedia, you're crazy, no offense. Ink modes and effects are there because those are things people emulated on their own quite often, and were a pain to do. I suspect the work they did in the 8 player allowed them to finally implement those features, but that they had been sitting on a list somewhere for awhile. Besides, Director / Shockwave had ink modes years ago, it's not just a PS thing.

gerbick

08-10-2005, 01:36 AM

ok, just a thought... since Adobe and Macromedia merged could this be part of the reason we are seeing all of these Photoshopesque features in the new version?

or am I crazy to think that?
Those were most likely planned before the merger... in fact, I'm willing to bet at least 5 cents that Adobe had near to nothing to do with this version... it was too late into the dev cycle to tinker with, Adobe-style that is.

Same went for Adobe's CS2 Suite. No interaction between the two as it stands, right now that is.

After reading more and more about Flash 8, I think this will replace my love for Flash 5 as my typical Flash IDE to use. And for me... that's saying a lot. I despised MX 2004... saw it as a necessary evil.

Flash 8 has my attention.

PAlexC

08-10-2005, 01:43 AM

Aww...you're just saying that 'cause the tabbed palletes are back for the first time since 5, and Adobe won't sue them over it now.

gerbick

08-10-2005, 01:57 AM

damn straight.

audas

08-10-2005, 05:10 AM

There was some mention a while ago about some sort of XML enhancement. Not sure what it was though however it seemed failry good and complicated.

There has been a lot of talk about phacker not liking flash since it upgraded from 4 or something, cant get over how patient you people are, move on Phacker its not just about you, get toontime !

Are there any improvement to the scripting, new features, whats happening there people.

And for my five cents there are a lot of feautes in this that are as usual catch ups to work arounds that the dev community has created. Embedding the cue points is good what about the metadata, also have they fixed the duration problem,
cheers,
sam

luvenny

08-10-2005, 06:31 AM

to cheer things up, and for where this thread is originated (coffee lounge)

phacker:
scooter seems like a nice dog! with evil looking eyes.

audas

08-10-2005, 07:02 AM

Someone siad they wanted a file upload download feature in flash well flash 8 has it..............

>flashl!ght<

08-10-2005, 12:24 PM

Just curious, does anybody know of a list showing Flash Player filesize over the versions? All I know is v7 was 684K, but I can't find a filesize for v8 or any of the ealier ones.

I just can hardly believe all the new features I'm seeing! While I'm on broadband so it doesn't matter to me, I wonder what all these features are doing to the filesize of the player? I'm sure MM would *not* completely compromise it, seeing as Flash's success is largely attributed to it's lightweight filesize, but I'm just curious.

I'm sure MM would completely compromise it <meant to say> I'm sure MM would *not* completely compromise it

FlashGuru

08-10-2005, 12:40 PM

Macromedia wont ccompromise the adoption rate of the Flash Player by bloating out the filesize of the Flash Player. It is still under 1mb - around 800k i believe.

With regards to XML enhancements, there are none. No new core language enhancements. But there is the Normal Mode 2.0 in the authoring environment and numerous new additional actionscript api's in the player.

admedia

08-10-2005, 01:53 PM

Those were most likely planned before the merger... in fact, I'm willing to bet at least 5 cents that Adobe had near to nothing to do with this version... it was too late into the dev cycle to tinker with, Adobe-style that is.

yea, that's where my 5 cents goes too. thanks for responding.

phacker

08-10-2005, 02:39 PM

Actually I love MX, tried MX04 it blue screened me too often so I reverted. I don't need all the components and stuff it came with to make my animations or keep my site running.

And I was seriously considering this version, but I really don't see anything there to get me enthusiatic.

Luvenny, thanks for the Scooter comment. I learned a lot of Flash working with her. And for a little dog she did have attitude.

For those that are wondering I've certified in Illustrator and CorelDraw, I just like the drawing tools in Flash better. I've learned short cuts and it just comes natural now.

Pat

phacker

08-10-2005, 02:50 PM

Flash player stats:

http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/knowledgebase/index.cfm?id=tn_14266

http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashplayer/public_beta/

And the most honest review I've seen so far:

http://www.flashmagazine.com/1131.htm

Nemesis Enforcer

08-12-2005, 04:26 AM

Good lord, they're definitely focusing on a lot of video aspects. Well, Flash 8 definitely got my attention. Moreso than the MX2004 series ever did. I think once my school gets it, I'll fiddle with Flash 8 and see if it's worth the buy.

Might as well check the Fireworks/Dreamweaver scene too, since I'll be going the Studio route, if I choose to buy it.

audas

08-12-2005, 05:36 AM

And the most honest review I've seen so far:

http://www.flashmagazine.com/1131.htm

And they absolutely loved it.......not sure what your points are Phacker, there is a lot of ranting going on but youre not acutally saying anything. The work you do, although cute, is very primitive as far as flash is concerned. Your work barely scrapes the edges of flash 5 let alone any of the subsequent versions and the complaints that you are putting out simply sound like you are upset that flash is not a simple easy to use app for nubes. Perhaps you should really start to push the envelope, embrace flash properly as a development tool as opposed to a tweening tool. Flash 8 has seriously pushed the boundaries and is AMAZING to say the least. A few punchy, revolutionary enhancements that will change the flash world BIG TIME.
You have been running around flash kit posting everywhere you can about the dangers of flash 8 and how pox flash mx was, I find this annoying coming from someone who cant really use the app. Perhaps you might try and share some information or creative ideas with us rather than this grudge fest your indulging in. I saw flash becoming a major competitor to html, a changeing force on the web, this has been slow, however I feel that this version is going to radically change things.

csdstudio

08-12-2005, 10:11 AM

cancerinform

08-12-2005, 03:32 PM

I am reading quite a lot now about the euphorie of flash8.
1. However, I am wondering when i strive through he different forums there are always more in the MX question forums than the MX2004 (AS2) forums. I wonder the euphorie will last when people recognize that flash 8 is a continuation of 7 and not of MX. So skipping 7 might cause a lot of problems adopting 8. I can see already the numerous questions like:
"I want to upgrade my movie from MX to 8 but it does not work any more. Do you know what is wrong?"

2. The flash player required (8) will not be available for older Windows or Mac OS. Plus the willingness to upgrade players is not very high among users. Flash 8 movies will therefore only be available for certain class of users (for example video) or certain purposes, at least for the time being. However, if you develop for future sites, it's probably one of the best upgrades.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Generally, I am looking forward to the new features :) .

csdstudio

08-12-2005, 06:17 PM

You're correct. Utilizing the new features will be very hard. As flash player 6 and 7 were preinstalled on new machines for the last 3 years. Most users will be affraid to "Install new player" in fear of all the virus and spyware threats abroad. This version will be for the people who design things for a specific audience, not the norm. People who continue to publish for player 6 and 7 will have the most success. Some of my work involves creating interactive business cards and CDs, that's will this newly found power will be put to good use.

joshchernoff

08-12-2005, 07:42 PM

other then hard core coding I don't know what could be next in the way for developers.
maybe thay should take flash, swt3d or maya or some 3d program, photo shop or gimp
and make one program. that would be cool

cancerinform

08-12-2005, 08:10 PM

Now with adobe in the back there will be something like this coming I suppose. May be the new giant Adbomedia is going to buy Swift 3d.

>flashl!ght<

08-12-2005, 09:39 PM

> Might as well check the Fireworks/Dreamweaver scene too, since I'll be going the
> Studio route, if I choose to buy it.
Fireworks user here. Check out the v8, looks pretty sweet actually. 25 new blend modes, long overdue!

1. However, I am wondering when i strive through he different forums there are always more in the MX question forums than the MX2004 (AS2) forums. I wonder the euphorie will last when people recognize that flash 8 is a continuation of 7 and not of MX. So skipping 7 might cause a lot of problems adopting 8. I can see already the numerous questions like:
"I want to upgrade my movie from MX to 8 but it does not work any more. Do you know what is wrong?"
Interesting thought, but I don't think it will be a problem. Upgrading from AS1.0 to AS2.0 will be pretty much the same wether it's v7 or v8 you're skipping too. Only there will be more in v8 of course. And still, you can likely still publish to AS1.0 from Flash 8, only you won't get all the features. Another thought, alot of things were changed in version 7 IDE that alienated the user base somewhat: no normal mode, document level undo, ect. All these things have been reverted back to MX and earlier style, so F8 may be welcomed for this reason alone a little easier.

2. The flash player required (8) will not be available for older Windows or Mac OS. Plus the willingness to upgrade players is not very high among users. Flash 8 movies will therefore only be available for certain class of users (for example video) or certain purposes, at least for the time being. However, if you develop for future sites, it's probably one of the best upgrades.
Very true, the day version 8 comes out does not mean we can go crazy making all our clients sites/webtools in F8, but that's to be expected. And personally I'm going to want some time to experiment first anyway :)

Perhaps you should really start to push the envelope, embrace flash properly as a development tool as opposed to a tweening tool.
From an animators standpoint(I am forced to be both developer and designer, like many, but I'm an animator at heart), Flash 8 is incredibly exciting as well. Yes, the developers should be having fun, but I often hear self proclaimed animators complaining Flash is going the wrong way. How could you possibly think that? Curve editor for animations, Blending modes, and live Filters. Does that mean nothing to animators? It means After Effects is coming to the web! I'm also hoping cache as bitmap will help the issue of slow playback in some cases.

phacker

08-12-2005, 10:32 PM

And they absolutely loved it.......not sure what your points are Phacker, there is a lot of ranting going on but youre not acutally saying anything. The work you do, although cute, is very primitive as far as flash is concerned. Your work barely scrapes the edges of flash 5 let alone any of the subsequent versions and the complaints that you are putting out simply sound like you are upset that flash is not a simple easy to use app for nubes. Perhaps you should really start to push the envelope, embrace flash properly as a development tool as opposed to a tweening tool. Flash 8 has seriously pushed the boundaries and is AMAZING to say the least. A few punchy, revolutionary enhancements that will change the flash world BIG TIME.
You have been running around flash kit posting everywhere you can about the dangers of flash 8 and how pox flash mx was, I find this annoying coming from someone who cant really use the app. Perhaps you might try and share some information or creative ideas with us rather than this grudge fest your indulging in. I saw flash becoming a major competitor to html, a changeing force on the web, this has been slow, however I feel that this version is going to radically change things.

I use Flash for what I use it for. I really have enjoyed the "free transform, "gradient transform" and bezier tool. Not much since MX has really grabbed my attention or made my work easier. No I am not a developer I leave that to others. I just make my little animations. And the new improved stroke options would be a benefit. But I really don't need the filter options.

And I think I've only commented on Flash 8 in this thread, and only then because Gerbick ask me to elaborate. Sorry if it got your shorts in a bunch. I am sure you'll do lots with the new filters and such.

And I have no real problem with MX (in fact it's my program of choice), since I left shared library symbols behind. But MX04, never worked well for me.

I found your site very entertaining. Maybe if I bounced my menus you'd like my work better. But I'd need motion sickness pills.

Nemesis Enforcer

08-12-2005, 10:52 PM

> Might as well check the Fireworks/Dreamweaver scene too, since I'll be going the
> Studio route, if I choose to buy it.
Fireworks user here. Check out the v8, looks pretty sweet actually. 25 new blend modes, long overdue!

Thanks for the lookout. I love the potential of Photoshop, but for some reason, I always felt more comfortable with Fireworks. So after looking at Flash 8 stuff, I browsed through the new features of Fireworks and Studio 8 last night and liked what I saw. Actually now, I'm seriously thinking about getting a new computer soon once I get my new job. If everything turns out well at school for the '8' series, I'll just buy that too.

Anybody used Contribute? Just give me a direct source link or a brief opinion on it, as I'm new to...er...'contributions'.

cancerinform

08-13-2005, 12:39 AM

...there are always more in the MX question forums than the MX2004 (AS2) forums...
Well, I am not sure if you are correct there >flashl!ght<. In the forums people still frequently look at flash4 and 5. I started with flash5 as a beginner and when MX came out I was serious and developed some applications and more and more... Then when MX2004 came out I started changing and adopting all (most) of the new features including classes, the new V2 component structure etc.
My advantage is that this is my hobby and not my main job (only side business). So I have actually the time and motivation to learn the new things as soon as they come out and can afford to play around with it. A designer whose income is dependent on that cannot afford the time. And I can see many getting lost who did not look at MX2004 seriously, because it will all be there. getting back to "normal" mode doesn't mean the world is turned back 2 years and MX2004 was actually a bad dream. Anyways we will see and I hope what I'm saying turns out to be bull**** :thumbsup:

The problem, which I see ( I am a basic scientist and learnt it there first) is that the speed with which these programs are developed is incredible fast and if you don't want to get lost you need to specialize. So in the future there will not be a web designer, there will be XHTMLer, a javasripter, a flash designer (already exists), a flash media developer, a flash form developer, a flash animator etc etc. Trying to be a little bit of all, I tell you as a scientist, don't try it!