New version

[Bob Hartzell]

I have placed a new version (1.75 beta) at http://www.koolmoves.com/km175beta.exe

This is what is new and fixed:
1. Added MP3 audio
2. Added capability to use a .fun file as a preloader
3. Added elapsed time of current frame to navigation toolbar
4. Added bitmap transparency
5. Added capability to define button hit area
6. Added capability to display grid on top or on bottom
7. Moved movie frame from bottom to top of animation
8. Added display of mouse position or amount of rotation to status bar
9. Fixed point selection problems primarily associated with symbols
10. Fixed symbol rotation problem for pure rotation (still needs more work)
11. Removed restriction limiting entry of long strings for url target
12. Fixed bug with saving screen capture to a file name other than the default

I will get to bitmap scaling and rotation next round.

How do you feel about the accelerators for playing the animation (e.g., ctrl+enter)?

Do you feel that importing swf files is a high priority?

Would you like to see a button that will launch a sound editor of your choice in the area where sound is associated with frames or buttons? Are there any good freeware sound editors?

Should drop shadow functionality be a high priority?

Should movie clips be a high priority?

I haven't forgotten about bones. Since Moho seems to be abandoning swf export, bones is definitely more interesting to me.

[WebExec]

Kick Ass... Awesome, Bob.

[johnie]

Originally posted by Bob Hartzell
I have placed a new version (1.75 beta) at http://www.koolmoves.com/km175beta.exe


How do you feel about the accelerators for playing the animation (e.g., ctrl+enter)?

Do you feel that importing swf files is a high priority?

Would you like to see a button that will launch a sound editor of your choice in the area where sound is associated with frames or buttons? Are there any good freeware sound editors?

Should drop shadow functionality be a high priority?

Should movie clips be a high priority?

I haven't forgotten about bones. Since Moho seems to be abandoning swf export, bones is definitely more interesting to me.




Movie clips are a kinda high on my list (Swish 2.0 supports it) but importing SWF's is a little lower.

Yes there are some pretty awsome freware sound editors. The one by digi design is probably the best one. The sound edit function would be great.

Drop shadows are so so on the priority list. It would be nice but you can manually do a drop shadow.


Nice work on the new edition.

[evolbeagle]

Very nice. Thanks, Bob.

I did notice in playing with the great new preload movie feature that if you make a change in that particular aspect of your movie, the program does not ask if you want to save that change before closing the file. I had not played much until recently with the previous version of the preload feature, so I don't know if this is different from before. It's also not a huge deal since the preload movie is a separate entity and can easily be changed back and forth with the click of a button, but I did want to let you know just in case.

Also, this program has added so much just in the short time I've owned it (since version 1.60). I'm wondering at what point you'll want to charge a little more for an upgrade. Particluarly once you add scalable bitmap and bones, I can't think of why I would need any other program to do what I need done. I'm not complaining about the steady price so far, mind you, just wondering what your plans are.

Thanks again.

PS - Oh yeah, it being a new millenium and all, I should finally introduce myself so you guys don't have to keep referring to me by my flashkit screen name if you don't want to. I'm Matt. Nice to meet everybody.

[johnie]

Its weird I have an old version of Kool Moves and the new version open sidwe by side. I can tell the differences.

I imported a bitmap and then set it to fade in but it won't play in the internal player unless I set it to step by step play.


also found another bug. Images with bitmaps don't move. It locks the shape at its intial position.

[Bob Hartzell]

We have not discussed our future pricing plans among ourselves. I am curious what Swish 2.0 will cost.

Johnie, can you provide at your leisure a link or two (your specialty) to some freeware audio editing software.

[johnie]

$40.00 or at least that's what they've been saying.

[johnie]

Free tools:


Pro tools- very good sound editing system- http://www.digidesign.com/flashnav/index.html

ALF a Wav to MP3 Encoder - http://www.philnet.u-net.com/


http://www.dbpoweramp.com/ Sound format converter

ASIA- a free wave editor. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Platform/9182/

Windiows media Player and Windows sound recorder can be used to create wavs and convert many formats to WAV painlessly.

Those are the best of the free ones- Oh yeah there are also several midi piano running arround also- I left those out

And then there are two shareware products that are pretty good also:

GoldWave http://www.goldwave.com/ (shareware $40.00)

and

Audio Mulch http://www.audiomulch.com/index.htm (share ware $50)

[BradBradleySL]

Impressive work Bob. Can't wait to try out all the new features.

Drop shadows, and movie clips are high on my list.

Also motion paths??
And of course good ol bones...

Some good sound editors and such are made by the same guy who made.

http://www.threechords.com/hammerhead/introduction.shtml

you will find links to a bunch of other freeware programs.
hammerhead is great for making drumloops quickly

Can't wait to get home and play:-d

Brad

Question bob? Your current design for the bones, would it be limited to bipedal characters, you said you were incorporating a stick figure as the base framework for the bones, will we be able to set guidelines, move bones....details maybe??:-d

[BradBradleySL]

OH and multiply windows for different views would be great:) RRRRReally want this

Brad

[Bob Hartzell]

You will be able to draw your own stick figure so it doens't matter what the shape is -- human, animal, other.

What do you mean by different windows for different views?

I'll check out the bitmap bugs. It was a big deal to get transparency to work so I goofed up something in the process.

[Bob Hartzell]

Originally posted by johnie
I imported a bitmap and then set it to fade in but it won't play in the internal player unless I set it to step by step play.

I don't see this problem.

[johnie]

I think Brad is wanting something like a 3-D engine where you have multiple panels with mutiple views- Like one panel would be the top, and the next would be the right side, and the next would be the left side, and another would be the front view. I see what Brad is saying how it would seem useful to display the wire frame view and regular view at the same time but I'm not so overly sure about it. I think ading the views and Cut, Copy, Paste functions to the right click menu would be more useful.

[johnie]

The problem went away when I closed the older version of Kool Moves. I had the last version and the new version both open.

[BradBradleySL]

NO NO NO...not a 3d engine
I want to be able to see wireframe view and shaded view, and also be able to see a zoomed view and a full view. Get?? Actually maybe more useful would be a navigation window, that would work just as well i think, think photoshop:), and the navigation window would stay the same view type, despite if the working window was changed to wireframe, this would help navigation throughout a scene too.

Good with bones:) Can't wait. What i have read of your idea i like.

Ahh, johnie i see you were comparing what i wanted to a 3d engine, ok.
I agree with Johnie, add cut, copy, and paste to right click along with views.

And motion paths...:)

Brad

[TPhilipDolce]

Johnnie,
I've been using Goldwave,...and loving it. Your suggestion for Pro tools looks even better,..but I'll have to download it while I'm asleep. 40MB,.....you gotta be kiddin me with dial up!!!! Cripes!!! I may be lucky to see it in the morning.

Bob,...I've been messing with Flipbook and SoftImage Toonz and although I know we are talking $11,000.00 for Toonz,..I think KM is well on its way to a very serious program.... You just got to incorporate bones. There's just no way around it. Great work!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh,..and please follow suit with Swish's pricing and not Toonz (hee hee hee)

[johnie]

I have it and it is a real good program except that it needs a lot of memory and its huge. It took me a day to download.

[johnie]

Originally posted by BradBradleySL




Some good sound editors and such are made by the same guy who made.

the link if you want it.

http://www.threechords.com/scripts/hammerhead/links.cgi?action=view_category&category=Software

[TPhilipDolce]

Just a footnote to my previous comments,....Bob,..I hope I didn't come across as snobbish,...I do not own Toonz,..but merely got my hands on a demo. I do not have $11,000.00 to pluck down for software, believe me!!!!! Anyway,....Kool Moves is a very nice program,...and I will eventually get around to buying it regardless of the price. (unless it's $11,000.00!!!)

I'm just a very particular person (wife puts it in other terms) and will continue to wait before buying "any" program until I feel it can produce results for me that I will need and expect.

TD
PS://Johnie,..I downloaded that ProTools beast,..but before I unleash it onto my harddrive, can you tell me if it will allow me to eport as .mp3? Will it allow for me to import .wavs (combine different tracks) and export as mp3 or is this thing strictly for musicians and .midi files?
[Edited by TPhilipDolce on 01-04-2001 at 02:35 PM]

[5minutes]

Thank you, Bob. Great work!

How do you feel about the accelerators for playing the animation (e.g., ctrl+enter)?
-very useful

Do you feel that importing swf files is a high priority?
-no

Would you like to see a button that will launch a sound editor of your choice in the area where sound is associated with frames or buttons?
- not necessary

Should drop shadow functionality be a high priority?
-yes

Should movie clips be a high priority?
-no

sincerely
Dirk

[Bob Hartzell]

I appreciate the input from all of you.

[djoy]

OK, I have downloaded the km175beta.exe file. As before, do I uninstall my previous version and replace it with this one? I can't remember what I did before when installing 1.67

Thanks, for your patience and help.

[johnie]

No, all you have to do is double click the installer.

You can have multiple versions of KM on your machine.

[fwhilton]

This new 1.75 beta... when does it no longer be a beta?

And when does it appear on the KM web site as a real version number like the 1.67 is?

Thanks

[DigitalD0g]

Movie clips would be VERY welcome! :) What would the size limitations be and what options would there be to control the clips from within the Flash movie?

Also, an idea for bones...

I would like to see a skeletal system in KoolMoves. I don't know how difficult it would be to set it up, but here is how I would attempt to pursue it...

There would be 2 types of bones. The first would be joints, which would be represented by a small fixed circle. Clicking a button would allow you to place a joint in a frame. You could then attach limbs to the joint, which would be represented by a sizeable (by length) straight line. Joints could be inserted anywhere into an existing limb to create say a flexible backbone. Highlighting a limb that is attached to a joint would allow you to reposition the limb without resizing it or detaching it from the joint. All of the bones attached "below" the limb you move would also move with it, like bending your knee, your foot moves with it. This type of system could allow users to create almost any type of creature imaginable.

Now... getting more than just a stick figure. If there were a way to "attach" a simple vector graphic (lets say a dog) to a bone system. You could create/import your dog graphic and build the sketeton over it... then you could do something like group the two together to make the vector dog respond to the movements of the skeleton. You could also build your skeleton and then create your "skin" around it and then group them.

I don't know if this stuff is possible and if it is I am sure it is easier said than done, but these are just ideas... I hope they are worth something.

Also, will KoolMoves be getting more actionscripts? Perhaps a way to save numeric variables and maybe add and subtract them, for game scores for instance. The score could be passed on to a web server through a URL, or Javascript. Maybe even and "If, Then, Else" type actionscript? Just curious...

[johnie]

I wrote a tut on passing game scores to javascript. It is here: http://www.koolmoves.com/scorekeeper/scoretut.html

FScommands can be accesed by typing FScommand:command in the get URL and then putting the arguments in the target.

There is a decent article at moock.org that deals with FS commands and Flash Player Methods. It is here: http://www.moock.org/webdesign/flash/fscommand/index.html

Since Kool Moves is based on the Flash 3 SDK (what was available when the app was written) I don't know about how bob feels about rebasing the product on the Flash 5 SDK (It has only been available for abot 25 days and the Flash 4 SDK has only been available for about 90 days or so- This is MM doing) and Flash 3 handles actions differntly than Flash 4 and 5.


If you want to Know more continue reading if not then stop now becuase the next bit is Technical and realting to the SWF file format itself. If you don't care about that then just be satisfied that until Kool Moves is based on the Flash 4 or 5 model we shouldn't expect more advanced scripting.




See we already have almost all of the Flash 3 actions available in the Flash 3 Model.

Here they are listed


Excerpt from the SWF SDK

The SWF Version 3 action model consists of eleven simple instructions for the player:

Play – start playing at the current frame.
Stop – stop playing at the current frame.
NextFrame – go to the next frame
PreviousFrame – go to the previous frame
GotoFrame – go to the specified frame
GotoLabel – go to the frame with the specified label
WaitForFrame – wait for the specified frame
GetURL – get the specified URL.
StopSounds – stop all sounds playing
ToggleQuality – toggle the display between high and low quality.
SetTarget – change the context of subsequent actions to a named object.


While the Flash 4 model is completly dififerent:




excerpt from the SWF SDK

SWF version 4 supports a greatly enhanced action model including an expression evaluator, variables, conditional branching and looping.

The Flash 4 player incorporates a stack machine that interprets and executes SWF4 actions. The key SWF4 action is ActionPush. This action is used to push parameters on to the stack. Unlike SWF3 actions, SWF4 actions do not have parameters embedded in the tag, rather they push parameters onto the stack, and pop results off the stack.

The expression evaluator is also stack based. Arithmetic operators include ActionAdd, ActionSubtract, ActionMuliply and ActionDivide. The Flash authoring tool converts expressions to a series of stack operations. For example, the expression 1+x*3 is represented as the following action sequence:

ActionPush “x”
ActionGetVariable
ActionPush “3”
ActionMultiply
ActionPush “1”
ActionAdd

The result of this expression is on the stack. Note that all values on the stack, including numeric values, are stored as strings. In the example above, the numeric values 3 and 1, are pushed on the stack as the strings “3” and “1”.


This is a list of all actions available in Flash 4:


Excerpt from the SWF SDK documentation

Arithmetic Operators

ActionAdd ActionMultiply ActionDivide
ActionSubtract

Numerical Comparison

ActionLess ActionEquals

Logical Operators

ActionAnd ActionOr ActionNot

String Manipulation

ActionStringAddActionStringLengthActionMBStringLen gth ActionStringEqualsActionStringLess ActionStringExtractActionMBStringExtract

Stack Operations

ActionPush ActionPop



So what you are asking is impossible for something based on Flash 3 which is why FSCommands and Flash Player Methods are important.

[DigitalD0g]

Thanks :)

I know how to use Flash with JavaScript and have made some score keeping "devices" with it already, but I appreciate the reply. This is a line from a Flash 4 ActionScripts specifications page I read:

"Data and operators (or functions) are encoded using the same way Flash 3 codes are."

That made me think that Flash 3 does support data and operators like +,-,=, etc... but I now see that page has a list of (then) new codes added to Flash 4. Oh well, LOL I have no problem with JavaScript...

OK, a couple of more things...

I am using the new beta version on a project. I LOVE being able to use MP3s, but I noticed one thing and wondered if anyone knows what is happening. I use 2 browsers IE 5.5 and Netscape 4.08. On IE I have the Flash 5 plugin, on NS I have the Flash 3 plugin. On NS the MP3s cannot be heard, but they can on IE. Is this due to the Flash 3 plugin, or the Netscape browser itself?

[Bob Hartzell]

When I included MP3, I had to change the version of the swf file to version 4 from version 3. Version 3 players do not recognize MP3 or other Flash version 4 commands (hence your web browser with version 3 won't play the MP3 part of the movie). Numerical actions are Flash 4. When I will get to these I don't know. My plate is full with bones, etc. The outline presented by DigitalDog for how bones should work is probably fairly close to what I have in mind. I am aiming for simplicity. Richard and I will be going over this topic later this morning.

There have been no new bugs reported for 1.75 beta (I found one myself and corrected it -- I messed up how the tracing image is displayed). I updated the beta yesterday with all fixes. I am waiting for my meeting with Richard to fix anything he has found and then I will release it. So, it could be this afternoon or tomorrow that there is an official release.

It is easy for me to add FSCommand as an action. Should I?
[Edited by Bob Hartzell on 01-06-2001 at 09:52 AM]

[johnie]

I would just to reduce confusion and while you are at it another easy command would be a javascript command that automatically adds the javascript: to the get URL.

Advertise it as new scripting abilities- It'd be a blast (At least MM thought it would be a big deal about adding a Flash javascript developement package to dream weaver and advertised it as a big deal and they also made a big deal over the NEW FS Command interface in Flash 4.)

[TPhilipDolce]

I absolutely love Digital Dog's idea on "bones" and that would be absolutely the most wonderful dream imaginable for an animator. It's like taking your drawing, importing it in and treating it like a skin to the skeletal structure then attaching it and moving it around with the joints.

I say that would be a dream,..because I'm not sure how that could be realized technically speaking. I mean if you change the joint to move the leg of your dog character,..it would have to recreate the likeness of the drawing style that is the dog and bend the leg as you had instructed while maintaining your artistic integrity.

Think about something more natural and funny for a cartoon. In the simplest of examples, if a person jumps up from a stand still position,...an animator knows that the character must bend at the knees and hunch down a bit before stretching back up into a jump position. this reflexive anticipation would be significant enough that the whole character takes a different shape before the jump. How would the program know how to extend the buttocks out and squanch the legs? I mean I know that I could add joints and skeletel lines tobend those areas,...but like DDog said,..you would have to be able to group that skeleton with the actual image. That would be key,..but it would then have to be up to the artist to actually draw the exaggerations. In my narrow cartoonist mind, I can't see a program figuring that out.

I believe 3DMAX does this with powerhouse plugins like Bones Pro from Digimation. All of the animating is done in a wiremesh mode and you then lay a skin over it, but I'm not sure. I'm glad there are Bob's in the world to figure that out,...because all I can do is draw.
[Edited by TPhilipDolce on 01-06-2001 at 09:07 PM]

[DigitalD0g]

The bone structure I outlined would have to be used with vector graphics. Other images would not work, except for maybe DXF files(?). The skeletal movement would simply alter the "skin" according to it's points. Make sense? You move a limb and the points of the skin that are associated with that limb move with it.
[Edited by DigitalD0g on 01-06-2001 at 09:12 PM]

[TPhilipDolce]

I was assuming that we were talking about vectors, just was mind boggled by the technical side of it. I don't know how these coders and programmers do it!!! Amazing!!!

[TPhilipDolce]

Bones would be adherently related to the import capabilities of KM too. Km would have to allow for a nice range of vector format extension imports. (which I believe it does now)(ie .cdr, .ai, .tga, .eps....) I can't think of one feature that could set this program leaps ahead of many other 2D animation softwares as "bones" could. I know Moho has it,..but I haven't seen it there yet to try it and Moho no longer will support .swf output.

[fwhilton]

Thank you, Bob. Great work!

How do you feel about the accelerators for playing the animation (e.g., ctrl+enter)?
-good

Do you feel that importing swf files is a high priority?
-VERY MUCH

Should drop shadow functionality be a high priority?
-no

Should movie clips be a high priority?
-yes

How about being able to loop a "fun" file inside another? For example, you have a logo that is 3 frames, and I want to loop it continously throughout ...say a 10 frame animation. But I do not want to have to take the 3 frame logo and create the graphics on each of the 10 frames... Loop one animation (fun) inside another (fun) file.

Thanks
Frank