So what's the future for us Flash Developers? - yes it's that question again....

I kinda agree with the premium part... I see it like a quite serious fail from Adobe ( nothing we're not really used to already ). I totally understand their need of monetizing the technology more, but they just really messed up badly with that 9% they are asking for some "premium features" ( not to mention that there's a relatively small - at the moment - target for it anyway ).

"Adobe Flash being the future or not" is hard to say... but it's true that looking at past and recent decisions taken by Adobe executives, it's hard to hope for anything good coming. One thing I do like is that they kinda turned away from the "let's add more useless bling-bling features to our editors" mentality ( or so it seems at least ).

PS: atRax, any remotely active Flash communities you might know about in your region? A Luzerner here...

The Adobe fees only kick in once you've made 50k+ from your app.

Adobe makes a great dev enviroment. Is it the bees knees still? I think so. Is it the talk of the town? Not so much... but who really cares.

Learn and live is what I always say. DOn;t be in it for the money life is to short and thats not why we do what we do or why were so great at it anyway.

Find enjoyment in reactive static content (aka html5) and have fun pwning those wannabe .js dev's with your insane abilities to write real OOP.

My suggestion, spend 1 day learning .js and be a rockstar at it... nothing goes further with other devs who hate on your preffered method or environment than pwning them at theirs.

Well I still stand by my statement that you should not be a one trick pony. The ability to grow and migrate will only help you evolve as a developer no matter what your forte is. I think it's absolutely pathetic by what's required to do good js these days but it's probably worth at least knowing how it works.

I think the current tool stack needed to most closely emulate as3 development is:

typescript.js (for as3 syntax with object types)
modernizr.js (for poly-filling old browsers with modern browser properties and methods)
require.js (so that you only have to include one .js file in your html)
bootstrap.js or foundation (for elements that come pre-rigged to be responsive to various screen sizes, tablets phones et al)
angular.js (for Flex-like binding and more structured mark up)
mustashe.js or handlebars (For populating html templates and snippets at runtime)
and of course jquery and underscore.js for easy dom manipulation and utilities

Then there's the proprietary stuff like:
phonegap (if you want to publish your site as an iOS or android app)
chromeframe (if you want to emulate canvas operations in IE)
tweenmax.js (for all of your favorite as3 tweens)

and there's about a thousand more that each handle a different shortcoming. And do you think they work well together? F*ck no!
Adobe, this is your race to lose. All we need is a single environment that does all these things and a custom language that compiles to .js

I'd rather want to see them improve ActionScript, Adobe Air and the AMV. I'm sick and tired of bling-bling features and tools that are semi-functional at best. They have failed to provide proper solutions for way too many years... this is their last chance. Flex is already going down the drain and I fail to see how the community can change this ( Adobe PR messed things up well enough unfortunately ), simple Flash stuff ( components, video players, audio players, etc. ) are gonna be obsolete in 2-3 years max ( by that time, HTML5 should already be - in theory - in a decent position and with decent support ), so if they mess up Air for game dev, then they really need to reinvent themselves ( I honestly have doubts they can do it if it ever comes to that ).

All faith is in Adobe Air and game development...

PS: I totally agree with jAQUAN on the .js libraries thing. One really needs a crap-load of "junk" ( sorry, I can't call it anything else ) to hope to work semi-decently. HTML5 / JS is far from being a viable technology for enterprise level applications ( sure, money can be made out of everything... but the wast majority of business will be hesitant to use a technology that might prove to be an unbreakable brick wall half way through the project ). Eventually, it might grow to be a more than just viable alternative for Flash, but things aren't really around the next corner...

Well, Adobe is now offering the Gaming SDK, which is compatible with some of the 3D frameworks like away3d. However, to get it you need to sign up first with creative cloud, although downloading the sdk is free. I get the impression Adobe wants to fix things they screwed up, but unfortunately the damage is done. Now only when Flash is and stays very superior over html5/js in performance and possibilities to do things, Flash will stay. And yes AIR is the only thing I give a future unless there is another Steve Jobs and Adobe is intimidated.

Why is it that the most popular subject in the CL revolves around architecture development?

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Originally Posted by Tea_J

yeh there is no definite answer to my questions (and i wish there was) but my point really is to get oppinions and estimations from people.. kinda like the WISDOM OF THE CROWD in their collective thinking hehe. this is the only way i can somehow get an answer to the question..

if i were to answer my own questions..
1) I think AS2 will have at least 1 more run in the next Flash release
2) I think so, but a bit on the legacy side. but at least it'll still be here, perhaps not by default on operating systems and browsers, but atleast an optional plugin or workaround for those that still need it..
3) in 2 years, I dont think the player will still be available on mobile devices anymore and people would've stopped developing flash for mobile as soon as next year )or it could've already happened).. but i do think it'll be supported in desktops both exe forms, and browser plugin, ..
4) kinda answered in #3 already..

well that's my take on it, but im very outdated w/ the news to be honest :(

so what ARE your oppinions. based on what you know

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Well there you have it. AS2 is dead. http://blogs.adobe.com/flashpro/2012...ional-in-2013/

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Originally Posted by jAQUAN

Well there you have it. AS2 is dead. http://blogs.adobe.com/flashpro/2012...ional-in-2013/

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Actually, it is more correct to say: "Official tooling support for AS 2.0 will soon be dead." AS 2.0 itself will not be dead as long as the Flash Player can still run AS 2.0 content... Even if newer releases of Flash Professional will not come with tools that support AS 2.0 development, the old versions remain functional... content can still be developed using AS 2.0 and this content can still run in the latest Flash Player releases.

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Originally Posted by Adobe

Please note that AS2 content will still work in Flash Player (and future versions of it).

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This is just Adobe's way of telling people who are still using AS 2.0 that: "Guys, if you don't want to miss out on even more features, then you should really start migrating to AS 3.0 now..."

Thank you all for your feedback and inputs..

and thanks very much jAQUAN for the Link and update.. i would've not known about this if you didnt link me (i've almost ZERO time in my day to read around :()

it does break my heart that they officially announced the end of AS2 era... but i am very glad they are going to continue runtime support, i see a 2 year window atleast to learn and migrate..

im actually 50% of a current project now under AS2 and the AS2 libraries that i've done... im still loving it.. at least anywork that i put out this year will still remain relevant and usable for the next 5 years me confidently thinks..

Flash as a tool and its future is a different story though.. w/ mobile devices dropping support already.. and w/ mobile and tab usage gaining ground over desktop/laptop use, i wonder how flash will stay relevant..

i will wait to see how the whole evolution of things start to take shape later this year before investing time learning AS3... for now AS2 all the way... late this year i shall tackle AS3... or move out into another platform



and i agree in the idea of adding more tools/skillsets to one's professional service stack, infact i have my looong wishlist.. native droid and phonegap even.. and even HAxe..

but unfortunately that's easier said than done.. i've always focused myself and mastered a few toolz and bank on that... hence i do PHP MYSQL and FLASH.. it has given me so much opportunity.. over a decade of being a web applications developer, i still cant write full JS code... nor did i get on the ajax band wagon.. but i've always found tons of projects that need what i can offer.. i am hungry to learn a lot of languages/toolz, God if i just had the time.. coz i know i have the patience and interests.. but practically, one doesnt really NEED to learn EVERYTHING... as long as he's got a direction.. im about to embark on another big project, a webapp for a hospital (for their employees nurses etc).. AS2, PHP, MYSQL combination on APACHE server takes care of everything.. i studied the requirements over and over again and could've justify me spending money/time on learning any other language for it. not even JS.. so i guess im sticking w/ my guns at the moment .. and perhaps offer this client a core upgrade after 10years down the line lolz.

so now i wait for this direction w/ regards to Flash... AS3.. or dwell in alternatives.. i just dont wana invest time on AS3 just yet, as much as i love flash...


but if the WEB GODS can grant me a wish.. it's to BRING BACK THE FLASH WEBSITES.. and make it STAY.. i dunno about you guys, i know there are more stupid/buggy flash sites than good.. but FLASH WEBSITES, proper ones, REALLY OFFER a different feel to the internet.. fluid motion, music, interactivity, videos, etc.. and to be honest NOW IS THE TIME to really ENJOY this technology.. Computers are faster.. displays are bigger.. bandwidth is better for everyone.. this is really the time for FLASH.. but sucks Apple had to influence the killing of it.. so sad about this.. as much as i love HTML5 and all that... it's really still FLAT ... admit it.. there's nothing that's gona be like flash at the moment..

ahhh.. http://2advanced.com/ ... this is one of the first ever flash site that really inspired me and got me FLashing......

EA Sports, which I understand to be a pretty successful company, uses AS2 exclusively for its HUD (Heads Up Display). Matter of fact they were hiring in Orlando a couple of months ago asking specificly for AS2 experienced developers. The job title was interface developer or something but it was all about AS2 work.

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Originally Posted by rynoe

EA Sports, which I understand to be a pretty successful company, uses AS2 exclusively for its HUD (Heads Up Display). Matter of fact they were hiring in Orlando a couple of months ago asking specificly for AS2 experienced developers. The job title was interface developer or something but it was all about AS2 work.

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That's a significantly different scenario than what we were talking about... and as a note: they kinda use AS 3.0 for everything else ( their Facebook games, Adobe Air based games for smartphones / tablets, etc. ) Just because a known company still uses an old technology for it's ( most likely ) legacy projects, it doesn't automatically qualify the technology / language / framework as "alive and doing well". Heck, there are tons of large corporations using languages / frameworks / tools that 90% of us haven't even heard about or had no way of hearing about since it was developed from the ground up by them to resolve specific problems and it's not publicly available ( yet / if ever )... and although used, I'd hardly call these things "alive" ( freelancers and the "general programmer public" can't care any less about them when it comes to paying the monthly bills or trying to get a new contract / project ).

Just saying... your AE example, although probably true, it's far from comforting to freelancers ( and not only ) once analysed / look at properly. No one said "AS 2.0 is inexistent", but although existing, it still can be quite "dead" ( which it kinda is and the situation will get worse and worse with future releases -> just refer to the Adobe technology roadmap for 2013 and onward ).

just here to say..

Theres no more fees related to flash premium anymore but it doesnt change the fact that Flash crash a lot nowadays.. even with good code yes.

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Originally Posted by Barna Biro

and as a note: they kinda use AS 3.0 for everything else

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Kinda?

And you know this because why?

Have you worked there?

You have some secret inside knowledge?

Stop being a dickslap.

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Originally Posted by atRax

AS2 is dead
AS3 is evolving but still requires you to pay PREMIUM to Adobe for Hardcore processing.

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AS2 is not dead. If you want to work in it that's up to you. Googles Swiffy handles much as2 very well. Sure your filters may not work but much flies through no problem.

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W3C is fussy and unfortunately not evolving fast enough to be what will wow the future on every screen.

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The W3C is nothing. They are not now nor have they ever been the browser police.
Here is the pattern that has been present. The WC3 has issued a mandate for standards to html. Every browser vendor then decides they'll implement some standards and ignore others. Or says to them "Go **it in a hat: It's happened for every major release of html. Some designers believe that W3C rules the world, some believe that iso does. None do. The first and last standard that a designer should be concerned about is does it work in "most" common browsers and what do I need to do to bring it as close as possible. Browser (ie, ff, safari, chrome, etc) vendors spit in the face of the wc3 every day. Sometimes because they can't make it work and sometimes because they thing they have a better idea of how it should work so as to differentiate their browser from others.

..Web developers/designers who are idealistic and kiss the mighty W3C's ring are doing no one including their clients any good. Those whom take a pragmatic approach to web design generally fair better in speed to get the site up and running and cross browser compatibility. Yes this means certain wiz-bang visual effects are lost but it also means greater stability.

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Originally Posted by rynoe

Kinda?

And you know this because why?

Have you worked there?

You have some secret inside knowledge?

Stop being a dickslap.

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Ehm... I have friends who work in the East European branches of EA / Gameloft / Ubisoft, etc. Because they do not hold a top managerial positions, they of course don't have ALL the information about what's going on in the ENTIRE company and that is why I said "kinda"... my statements are strongly tied to their direct contact with certain projects or their knowledge about projects their coworkers are working on. You can call it "secret inside knowledge" if that makes you feel better...

But since you brought it up and you're acting like a dick for no reason ( or does the reason have to do without your inability to accept or process statements / ideas that differ from yours? ):

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Originally Posted by rynoe

EA Sports, which I understand to be a pretty successful company, uses AS2 exclusively for its HUD (Heads Up Display)

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And you know this because why? Have you worked there? Who said they use AS2 "exclusively" for HUD? You have some secret inside knowledge or did some random article on some random website feed you that information?

Stop being a dickslap.

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Originally Posted by Barna Biro

Ehm... I have friends who work in the East European branches of EA / Gameloft / Ubisoft, etc. Because they do not hold a top managerial positions, they of course don't have ALL the information about what's going on in the ENTIRE company and that is why I said "kinda"... my statements are strongly tied to their direct contact with certain projects or their knowledge about projects their coworkers are working on. You can call it "secret inside knowledge" if that makes you feel better...

But since you brought it up and you're acting like a dick for no reason ( or does the reason have to do without your inability to accept or process statements / ideas that differ from yours? ):



And you know this because why? Have you worked there? Who said they use AS2 "exclusively" for HUD? You have some secret inside knowledge or did some random article on some random website feed you that information?

Stop being a dickslap.

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Yea I got a friend who works there too, he just got hired, whats your point. We have a former employee at our studio now who worked there for several years at thier headquarters as a developer. I talk to both of them at length about the work, however, that doesn't give me any brevity to describe how EA goes about designing their products. I would be a DICKSLAP if I did that.

My point was to say that AS2 is still being used and the skillset can still be used to earn a buck.

For how long? I got no idea.

you guys are awesome :) discussing how much as2 has to live when the rest of flash world discusses how much as3 has to live. hardcore!

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Originally Posted by realMakc

you guys are awesome :) discussing how much as2 has to live when the rest of flash world discusses how much as3 has to live. hardcore!

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Another noob.

What qualifies you to define what "the rest of the flash world" is discussing?

Other than the info you read from this thread?

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What qualifies you to define what "the rest of the flash world" is discussing?

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Obviously reading and, sometimes, taking part in those discussions. While it seems that you do not ever leave this forum. Hence my obligation to inform you on what is happening outside of it :D