He's not only smart, he also have good sense of humor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmadinejad
I was thinking if Saddam's still alive today, then we have these two people stealing news all over the world.
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He's not only smart, he also have good sense of humor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmadinejad
I was thinking if Saddam's still alive today, then we have these two people stealing news all over the world.
It got a big laugh from the audience didn't it?
My first reaction was to bristle at the idea of this guy getting a forum in the US. But, as it turns out, it couldn't have gone better. He made it more clear than ever to more people that he is a complete 164-piece toolbox.
what's wrong with this quote, again?
Reminds me of a line from the old comedy show Soap: "We don't have homos in Texas. Leastways, not live ones".
:confused: What?Quote:
Originally Posted by realMakc
Iran has an estimated population of 65-million. Do you think it's possible that there isn't at least one person who is homosexual? Mr. Mahmoud doesn't think so.
Just replace gay with whoever you happen to be to see the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by realMakc
See I deal with men and women in this forum most every day, and their race, colour or sexuality is never considered, as it has no relevence to our conversation, so surley you can understand that it is equally of no importance should we ever meet.
is he for real?!
i mean, does he actually believe that? or does he just want others to believe it??
how lovely it must be to be gay and iranian :scared:
Have you guys never been to middle eastern countries? The concept of homosexuality does indeed not exist in most of them. If it does, it's rarely spoken of, and it's suppressed as some sort of extremely erratic sin. I don't see anything wrong with what he's trying to say, I just don't like how he said it.
You really need to pop out of your bubble where you expect to see everything that YOU think is "the norm" in your part of the world, in every other part of the world as well. Only then will you see what he means.
not sure how you can misconstrue what he said. he didn't say "people aren't openly gay in iran" or anything like that. he categorically stated that there are no gay people in iran. this is not true.
i do know (very well) that opinions and attitudes towards homosexulaity are very different in many parts of the world to those in the UK and other parts of the western world, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. gay people exist pretty much wherever people exist!
Yes, but the phenomenon doesn't exist there, so to speak. It's so taboo, you might as well say that no such person exists, and it'll be just as good as there really being no one as such. It's hard to explain, but do you get my drift here?
I know what you're saying, and I agree, homosexuals ARE everywhere. They DO exist. But to him, it's like he's a simpleton, their minds are brainwashed for the concept to not even exist.
- Yes, what you say is right. Its a big taboo !!!Quote:
Yes, but the phenomenon doesn't exist there, so to speak. It's so taboo, you might as well say that no such person exists, and it'll be just as good as there really being no one as such. It's hard to explain, but do you get my drift here?
I know what you're saying, and I agree, homosexuals ARE everywhere. They DO exist. But to him, it's like he's a simpleton, their minds are brainwashed for the concept to not even exist.
So is drinking alcohol... but it still happens. Denial is also strong in those regions.Quote:
Originally Posted by zakp0
Been there, yes I have. There's a lot of things that are suppressed to high level; but that's straight denial.
This... I can agree with.Quote:
I know what you're saying, and I agree, homosexuals ARE everywhere. They DO exist. But to him, it's like he's a simpleton, their minds are brainwashed for the concept to not even exist.
Yeah, I think what I said in the second statement is more what I meant. If I heard how he'd said it, or his motive behind saying it, I probably would've been able to tell if he's simply in denial, or he just doesn't know any better.
Edit: Drinking alcohol? Where is that taboo at all?
yeah, i think i know what you're saying. i know it is a big taboo in many (all?) middle-eastern countries, but to deny it's existence just seems odd.
Erm... have you been to those countries? Alcohol is verboten.Quote:
Originally Posted by zakp0
There. You should know that. And to deny that alcohol consumption does indeed happen... childish. I've had the best wine while in some muslim countries.Quote:
Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)
In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word.
Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like.
This guy reminds me that we've got an epidemic of stupid leaders. US, AUS, and now this dude.
*places fingers in ears... lalalalalalalala.... I don't hear you... lalalalalalalala*
do you personally know any gays from Iran?Quote:
Originally Posted by carly1979
Well, I'm sure there are very few openly homosexual people in Iran - or the Middle East for that matter. It's kind of hard to organize a Gay Pride parade when there's a very real chance of being slaughtered.
~Cally~
[URL Removed - Please do not spam the boards with your URL. Do so again and your site will be added to the ever growing list of sites that we block already] - gerbick (supermod)
I'm curious if anyone has come across an unedited/unbiased/full version of his lecture. I'd really be interested in hearing everything he had to say instead of clips of his most controversial or easiest to attack points made. A link would be appreciated. I tried looking on the interweb with no success.
realMakc- no not personally. i don't actually personally know anyone from iran, despite having very breifly visited there years ago.
you about to tell me they don't exist?
There might be gays in Iran, but telling an Iranian that there are is like telling you that your mother did it with other guys before she met your father. This might be true( today it probably is), but its still not something you want to talk about. There are lots of stuff that you will claim to be not true, even when you know its true. Its called double-think, and we are all guilty of it. For example, we all know that driving is bad for the environment, but we still do it.
In Islamic countries they have a very different way of life than in the western world. Many things that happen are not talked about, just like here, but they are different things than what we don't talk about, and so we claim that they are inferior to us. But they look at us the same way. They see our bad side (which is what the fundamentalists use as arguments) and forget about their own bad side, just like we do.
I don't think you quite understand how brainwashed that makes you sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by zakp0
Well, I don't know about Iran, but based on absorbing media here in America, I've determined that all American homosexuals are:
- Hot, hot lesbians with rocking bodies
- Peppermint Patty
- Men with mustaches
- Extremely effeminate men who shreik a lot
My point is we're "open" about it here, but we're still full of sh*t about who people really are.
after a little luck and more searching I found the full speech, maybe people would be interested in watching it? you can find it here: http://worldleaders.columbia.edu/eve...ml#past_events
It's you who was telling us they do exist, so I was hoping to see some factual background behind your words.Quote:
Originally Posted by carly1979
ChaseNYC, thanks for the link.
Yes. Also from Turkey, Dubai and Libya. Why do you ask?Quote:
Originally Posted by realMakc
I think this rates as one of the weirdest analogies I've ever read.Quote:
Originally Posted by ihoss.com
All that clean, Nordic living has clearly dulled your perception of the real world.Quote:
Originally Posted by ihoss.com
Either that, or you're stoned out of your mind.
The guy denies there are homosexuals in Iran because - wait for it - they (the Iranians) need to be seen as pure, to justify, rationalize fighting the impure. Impure? That's you (if you're not Muslim), me and everyone else that is an infidel or apostate.
Ok, that's better. Would you give me Iranian guy contacts?Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
a lack of gay men would certainly explain why their president is tooling around in a members only jacket.
If you wish. I'll PM it to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by realMakc
While we're at it... give me your first name, last name and contact info as well. If you want to contact this person, you'll do so through me. And I'm not sure what you wish to endeavor, but if anything I'd prevent my friends from having to deal with strangers.
And you... you're a stranger.
Understood?
hurricane, what do you think of Iran? Do you think they have a good regime, or do you think they would be better of with a western government? If so, then how is your view different from Iranians who believe that their system is better? If you don't think they should change their system, then how do you defend them stoning people?
Everyone seems to dislike the Muslims because they want us to be Muslims, instead we want them to be more western.
aah, through you, right. I was just thinking, why should I take your word for an evidence, so I thought I would talk to this guy so that he would convince me that he's from Iran, and he's gay. he might not want to, though, and then I will never know... but until then, what reasons do I have to doubt words of their president?
It's the same as taking his word, or mine. It's all up to you. I personally know one person... an aberration perhaps? Luck of the draw perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by realMakc
Who knows. I didn't seek this person, nor the other way around. Just happened to be the lil' bro of somebody I know very well. And he spent the first 17 years while in Iran.
And this president... he can say whatever he wishes. I'll believe and doubt whatever I decide to believe in.
You can feel free to do the same.
here's part of his dialogue divided into 6 clips.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PXeZ87AqknE
Fast forward to 3:35 to listen to the question regarding homosexual executions in Iran and his answer.
Ah yes, that's true. But even so, when you say, "there are gays in iran", people have no problem with that, and when he says otherwise, people start threads like this. So you see, there is some difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
linkQuote:
Some international gay rights groups believe that more than 4,000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Ayatollahs seized power in 1979.
I didn't have a news conference or answer/question session to start a thread about.Quote:
Originally Posted by realMakc
If you wish, feel free to start one based on my foolish or inaccurate statement(s) then - I have made enough of those to fill a volume of books.
That would be appropriate and equal action. I'll be waiting.
Frankly no. I don't get your drift (although I do think you are drifting). I think you are interpreting for the man. He says the Phenomenom does not exist. He is not saying that it is not common or accepted. He firmly asserts that the reality of homosexuality does not exist in Iran. The obvious question is how could he know? He might just as easily say that holy men have no evil thoughts. Does he think he is all-knowing (I think so). That is the root of humor here. The guy is so out of touch that he is certain about what he cannot possibly know for sure, even with 10 thousand eyes.Quote:
Yes, but the phenomenon doesn't exist there, so to speak. It's so taboo, you might as well say that no such person exists, and it'll be just as good as there really being no one as such. It's hard to explain, but do you get my drift here?
To quote David Horsey, political cartoonist for the Seattle Times, "Welcome to Ahmadinejad's alternative reality, where the holocaust didn't happen, where Al-qaida didn't do 9/11, and where there are no homosexuals (except the ones we execute)."
Ahmadinejad is a hero to many because he speaks his mind and doesn't back down. I understand and respect that appreciation; but we must temper our appreciation with a clear view of the man. Hero worship is blind and such blindness is dangerous.
This is stupid, why are we debating this?
There are gay people everywhere, always have been, always will be. It's part of human sexuality.
The only question is whether people are open about it or not.
Furthermore, why should anyone, or any government, care who f***s who? As long as everyone is an adult and consenting, it's no one's business to tell them what they can and can't do in the privacy of their own home or behind closed doors. Why would you want someone to legislate your orgasms?