thanks again...this is really a HUGE help to me. just wondering though...do you think it is a good idea to put each individual "diamond" MC into another MC already positioned into the star shape? would it work to re-use one MC symbol (diamond shape) and just rotate it to form the star? or would that mess up the trig? also, i guess that is what is giving me the most trouble right now...how to actually organize the MCs and the movie as a whole.