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Thread: [Resolved] [Resolved] [Resolved] What will the future of the web be? (Old thread)

  1. #21
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    Originally posted by Lou C. Fur
    Also, lets not start with what you need more of. That fight will last forever. So, lets just say that you need both. Not more of one or the other....lmao.

    Lou C. Fur
    I just want to agree with Lou.

    I recently did some work with iceberg2000, I did the programming, he already had most of the graphics up. I have to say that it was great being able to concentrate on the programming end, so I think that it is great for people to specialize, or just divide up the graphics and programming work on a project. But both are needed, and anyone that is doing web design or development should know something about the other.

    I really agree with bobajobrob about some things regarding design too though. I am kind of split between science and design, (engineering major, but come from very artistic family, both sided). I remember back when I was high school age, back to private art class, we studied all the basic principles like color theory, comp, so on, over and over. I kind of miss that, and find that despite all the great designers there at FK, we practically never hear anything about it, even in advice to newbes.

    Everybody sign my guest book bellow.

  2. #22
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    remember "what goes up must come down!!"

  3. #23
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    Off of Bob and Lou:

    The original question was about web design and the ease diminishing jobs...
    Design is achieved through tools, and perhaps easier tools means a few more quality designs will be enabled who otherwise would not be able to techinically do the work. But for the most part techinical enhancements won't steal any 'designers' job.

    As for programmers, that may be different. Perhaps the pure designers won't need the backend people any more. But the backend people will just migrate to writing the software that makes it easier for everyone to DIY database stuff.

    Print design has been around forever and the only designers that were hurt when desktop published hit it big were the ones that sucked. A quality designer is, and will be, set.

  4. #24
    "Print design has been around forever and the only designers that were hurt when desktop published hit it big were the ones that sucked. A quality designer is, and will be, set."

    I could not have said it better myself. That makes me feel so good. bad designers will always be bad designers. It'll just be easier for punters to tween red squares into blue circles in the future (or the future equivalent, god forbid!)

  5. #25
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    Another thing to think about ...

    Is the novelty of the internet wearing off? With so many people learning how to create webpages (boring and bland as they might be), I think the whole buzz is dying down.

    A few years ago there was a mad scramble to get a website. Now with the dot com crashes happening, people are starting to lose interest. Yes you can write html - big deal, so can every other person who ever viewed the source of another webpage.

    It is worrying, and our company is turning more to multimedia and offline presentations as clients are no longer as interested in the internet. I've also noticed that more and more companies are going in-house for their websites. So for the webdesign company the bigger fish are a lot harder to catch. I don't think companies are too concerned about fantastic design. If they've got a website, they've got a website. You can offer all the bells and whistles you like, but people aren't as excited about the internet as they used to be. I think if a client can hire one person to sit in-house and design and maintain their site for them at minimum cost, they'll choose that over hiring a design company to give them the prettiest pictures.

    So in response to the question "Will Web Designing Be A Profitable Business 5-10 Years From Now?" I'd say yes, but not as much as it has been. Unless there is a radical new factor added to the internet, I think it's just too easy a field for anyone to enter.

  6. #26
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    X, Y, Z, ...T (naturally)

    Society always gravitates to the new media-centric.

    Exactly! It's gonna be a 3D scramble soon guys/gals.
    If you don't know what a scalable vector, a self kontained object, or matrix transform is already, then you won't be on top dollars in 5+ years!
    Mass is everything, grow, and be prosperous!!

  7. #27
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    Originally posted by frogg
    Another thing to think about ...

    Is the novelty of the internet wearing off? With so many people learning how to create webpages (boring and bland as they might be), I think the whole buzz is dying down.

    A few years ago there was a mad scramble to get a website. Now with the dot com crashes happening, people are starting to lose interest. Yes you can write html - big deal, so can every other person who ever viewed the source of another webpage.

    It is worrying, and our company is turning more to multimedia and offline presentations as clients are no longer as interested in the internet. I've also noticed that more and more companies are going in-house for their websites. So for the webdesign company the bigger fish are a lot harder to catch. I don't think companies are too concerned about fantastic design. If they've got a website, they've got a website. You can offer all the bells and whistles you like, but people aren't as excited about the internet as they used to be. I think if a client can hire one person to sit in-house and design and maintain their site for them at minimum cost, they'll choose that over hiring a design company to give them the prettiest pictures.

    So in response to the question "Will Web Designing Be A Profitable Business 5-10 Years From Now?" I'd say yes, but not as much as it has been. Unless there is a radical new factor added to the internet, I think it's just too easy a field for anyone to enter.

    I think that right now, people are starting to get out of the .com biz because of the fall in the market. Web designing is no longer the flavor of the month and those people who got into web designing for the money are probably now getting out of it because they realize there's not a lot of money to be made doing it, at least not as much as there was before the fall.

    As far as commercial accounts go, I don't have first hand experience so I can't comment on whether or not things are being done in-house right now. I will say though that as broadband becomes more accessible, 3-D will make it's way into websites and the process will probably start all over again with companies having to hire "specialists" to do this kind of work that the regular HTML guy at the company can't do.

    This will probably cause another rush of people who were never in the .com biz before to start taking classes on 3-D technology to learn this stuff so they can make the big money just as people were doing this last year before the tech market dropped.

    Everything always balances out in the end it seems. Web design still remains a job just as anything else and us true designers do it because we like to do it, not because we're here soley to make money like some of these other people. I think our jobs will always be safe because the internet will always be here. New companies are always popping up and these new companies will need someone to create a website for them. As long as every company doesn't go in-house for their web site design, we'll be fine.


  8. #28
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    As regards the internet slowing down...

    I think that even if that is the case, there will still be a growth in the number of business that provide services over the web, such as banks, online college courses, and other things that require backend work. I think that many web sites will move in the direction of becoming web applications, not just sites. The reason for this is that even though people may not bother to find and look at your sight when it has only information (information that is really only a sales pitch at best, in many cases), they will come to it if it dose provide a service that actually makes their lives easier.

    Anyway, just my opinion.

  9. #29
    First of all, the fact that 19 year olds are grasping this technology and running with it is a great sign of what the future holds for all of us. As it gains popularity Flash will be constantly improved upon and will get more complex. The internet will revolve around TV type commercials and we will all create more and more complex interactive sites. A 19 year old newbie will need a lot of training to catch up to those of us who do it for a living and have the time to learn and do. As things progress we must progress to stay ahead of the young kids who want to "play with" the technology. Clients will be aware of this fact and if they want a current up to date professional site they will have to go with the seasoned veterans. We will always lead the way for the newbies and if the occasional one comes up who is great at Flash then we all may be able to learn from them as well. The bottom line is that everybody can create their own html pages if they want, or have an inhouse employee do it. The companies worth having as clients see the value of hiring professionals and will always feel the same way. This can not hurt any of us. I take my car to a professional mechanic even though there are a huge number of backyard mechanics who claim they are able to fix it for less.

  10. #30
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    I hope I don't start a flame war, but I have to note a trend that I have seen is some of the threads in the boardroom lately. I am NOT referring to anyone in specific, just the trend.

    I have noted that there has been a lot of criticism (and even at times anger) directed at college students and "19 year olds" who are competing in the flash market. (Just for reference, no, I am not 19.) I have tough about this and looked at a lot of sites during my time as a flashkit member during the last 6 or 7 months at sites by members of every age group. Now, first I have to say that the idea that the younger members would have poorer work dose seem to make sense. None the less, this theory has never really fleshed out in my observations. I can't really say that beyond the very newest members that there there is a line that separates the quality of sites that I see members of say 18-20 Vs 45 year olds producing.

    Now, it is true that 13 year olds have some time before they mature, generally speaking , but by the time people reach about 18, they either have talent, skill, and brains, or they don't. Anyone out there that is waiting to reach 40 so that they can be a "good" designer probably needs a new job.

    My argument of this it to go to any good college and meet some engineering, mathematics, or physics students. There you will see 18, 19, 20-3 year olds that on a daily basis have to meet standards of quality and professionalism that exceed that of all but of the top web design studios out there right now. Of course, I will agree that not every 18 year old out there is that swift, but that dose not mean that any more 50 year olds are either.

    The point I am trying to make is just that there needs to be less "eating of the young" on some of the threads in the boardroom. I know that many of the comments are not done in malice, but that dose not always make them correct or accurate remarks either. Flash is not "high technology", no matter what anyone says. What makes people great at flash is design talent, which can show itself at any age.

    Now as regards programming, database work, backend development.......

  11. #31
    I hope you didn't take any of what I posted as an attack on 19 year olds...just answering the original question and using the "19" as a guidline. I was 19 too once.....................sorry just drifted for a minute. Young people have great design skills but the seasoned vets may be more intune to the complexities of actionscripts, of web issues in general etc. The design may be wonderful but it still needs to work fast enough on the web to be of some use. I have recently been on sites where a 400k flash file took 3.5 minutes to download onto my direct cable access. This is making all Flash design look bad. I myself can make that load in under 6 seconds on direct cable and under 20 seconds on a 56k modem, there is the difference in experience over just design.

  12. #32
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    No, I hope that I did not seem too pointed at you either. Actually, like I said, I was referring to a trend that I have seen in some of the threads in the boardroom in general, some of which have ranged from simple annoyance at the competition of college students, all the way to out and out rudeness on the part of some members.

    I myself have to say that I consider myself be more of a programmer than a designer, though I have some great designer friends here at FK too.

    Anyway, I say your other thread about spending so much time on the computer. I think 60 hours a week is probably perfectly normal if you have the time to. I am not sure what people did before the computer Maybe there are some history buffs @ FK that could say...

  13. #33
    Originally posted by zacvin
    No, I hope that I did not seem too pointed at you either. Actually, like I said, I was referring to a trend that I have seen in some of the threads in the boardroom in general, some of which have ranged from simple annoyance at the competition of college students, all the way to out and out rudeness on the part of some members.

    I myself have to say that I consider myself be more of a programmer than a designer, though I have some great designer friends here at FK too.

    Anyway, I say your other thread about spending so much time on the computer. I think 60 hours a week is probably perfectly normal if you have the time to. I am not sure what people did before the computer Maybe there are some history buffs @ FK that could say...
    I love the competition from young people. It invigorates me and makes me want to improve and get more complex. Cheers to all the young uns who have the good sense to target Flash as their preferred internet creativity outlet. By the way I am a LOT worse than 60 hours a week. (I don't have a life....bummer)
    [Edited by Freaky Flash Fiend on 04-28-2001 at 03:38 PM]

  14. #34
    Originally posted by Gotha


    Yep. Go read "Who Moved My Cheese" by Spencer Johnson and see why you must change with the times. The book is only 94 pages long with type larger than "The Cat In The Hat," but the moral of the story is priceless.
    That book is priceless. We must know that the cheese will always change and never be in the same place all the time.

    As web designers strive to become better at what they do, the wannabes will evetually be seen for what they are, wannabes. (bitter about frontpage people calling themselves web architects)

  15. #35
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    Hey Savatar, I know that this is a bit off topic, but I was looking at your site, and it said that you where studying mathematics at Howard U. Assuming that you are past your first two years of math, I was wondering if you have any advice for a struggling differential equations student? I am kind of in a pinch, last two weeks, well, you know.

    I am not having a hard time with the math, just a very hard prof. Thus I have to master it to even have a chance. Do you know of any good forums on the web for math? I have looked all over the place for more diffy Q info, found some, but apparently it is not a very hot topic out there right now.

    Dr Murdock will allow us to use any program that we can develop, which has had me searching for some programs or libraries that would help, though I have not found much. Well, at least we have Derive.

    Thanks for any suggestions or advice!

  16. #36
    Originally posted by zacvin
    Hey Savatar, I know that this is a bit off topic, but I was looking at your site, and it said that you where studying mathematics at Howard U. Assuming that you are past your first two years of math, I was wondering if you have any advice for a struggling differential equations student? I am kind of in a pinch, last two weeks, well, you know.

    I am not having a hard time with the math, just a very hard prof. Thus I have to master it to even have a chance. Do you know of any good forums on the web for math? I have looked all over the place for more diffy Q info, found some, but apparently it is not a very hot topic out there right now.

    Dr Murdock will allow us to use any program that we can develop, which has had me searching for some programs or libraries that would help, though I have not found much. Well, at least we have Derive.

    Thanks for any suggestions or advice!
    Hey, I have never used software for differential equations. I have done diff, some 2 years ago. Check out these links Zacvin.

    http://www.sosmath.com/diffeq/diffeq.html
    http://diffeq.brookscole.com/software.html
    http://www.nobjects.com/
    http://www.seanet.com/~ksbrown/icalculu.htm




  17. #37
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    Originally posted by zacvin

    ...I am not having a hard time with the math, just a very hard prof. Thus I have to master it to even have a chance. Do you know of any good forums on the web for math? I have looked all over the place for more diffy Q info, found some, but apparently it is not a very hot topic out there right now.

    Dr Murdock will allow us to use any program that we can develop...
    With a name like Murdock, he must be tough.

  18. #38
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    Regarding the in house shift...

    If you look at the companies out there, they will hire different expertise from outside their firm. This is especially true of Marketing Consultants. These consultants will deteremine the most effective strategy to sell an idea. One solution might be web design, an internet site tailored to a specific image. The markething team will probably have a team that specialise in th we and multimedia. (or they might hire a specialist web designers)

    As is acknowleged, it is how web design fits into the greater scheme of ideas in the competitive world that is of great importance. This understanding will partially come through experience and a sharp eye. Although, I am only 21, I have followed graphic design, typographical trends, and the idea of marketing for as long as I can remember, and I will be the first to admit that there is still a lot to learn on my part (now thats an exciting thought ) the learning never stops!

    You can only learn so much about design, the next step involves passion

  19. #39

    the learning never stops!

    I guess Im one of the "19-year-olds" (now 21) you guys are talking about. The problem, at least here in Sweden, is that 4 years ago a lot of "17-year-olds" were employed or started their own webdesignbusiness. Although we have the senior designers in their fourties or fifties the concept of webdesign isnt that old. Ok, some of them may have been doing it for 10 years but think of the websites produced in the early ninetees. Its not something you would put on a poster over your bed. Ive seen the development of websites with my own eyes. Its not like it happened before I was born. Although I had the opportunity to work as a designer I decided go for a university diploma. And thats a relief when I see the simple mistakes some designers do when they dont know nothing about color theory or what makes a good type. Im saying that if a 19-year-old play around with flash and take potential clients from professional firms, he is well worth them. Thats what competition is all about. The 19-year-olds wants to beat the professionals and the professionals will not be beaten. The professionals have an advantage cause they already got a job. The Internet has given them an arena to fight on. But its not a negative fight, instead we are looking at a never-ending-cycle of better design. Isnt that what we all want, isnt that what this forum is all about. I agree that companies must learn what makes up a good design. That way, they will keep coming back to us for a redesign if they want to look their best. And that makes the competition more equal.

    I like the mix of amateurs and professional communicators on the Internet. All carpenters are not architects but some can still construct beatutiful buildings. In the end, how hard can it be to change a color of a pixel?

    Andreas Berggren

  20. #40
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    I agree with Andreas (tjenare!). It seems we all forget about one thing when talking about Flash. Flash is the tool and creativity is the key! All in all skills and experience in design, layout, typography and color is what makes a site good. Flash gives us the opportunity to change static sites into interactive and dynamic playgrounds. Without the knowledge of design principles, that playground will be an unattractive place to visit, and eventually deserted.

    When I was 14, I was already designing flyers and posters on an Amiga 4000. At the age of 18 I thought I was the shi*. But I started comparing my design with professional ones, and realized how bad my stuff really was. So I went off to college (one more semester baby!). What I know now is priceless when it comes to great functional design, regardless of what the project or medium is.

    My view of flash in the future of the web is that, 3d might sound like it's here to stay, but I bet my money on digital video and streaming commercials, with Flash as the core plug-in. We're so used to watching commercials on TV, so the transition to the web won't be hard. For all those people spending hours learning mathematical formulas for how to make a vector cube spin, I'd say it's a waste of time and effort. What's a wireframe dolphin when one can have real footage of it. Add broadband to all this and we have ourselves a digital interactive TV set on our computer desks. Maybe people will move their monitors to a stand in front of their couches...

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