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Originally posted by JMulhern
and so much for hard work and being proud of what you have done.
If you get a good job done with the most appropriate tool, then one should be proud. There is no pride in spending hours or days getting a result that could have been done in a few minutes. That's just a waste of time and resources that could have been put into something more creative.
plus going through and doing it yourself teaches you something new everytime you sit down and spend 5 hours doing an effect that would take 3 minutes in swish. right?
Hopefully it would teach you that there are better ways to spend five hours on. Get your effect done in three mintues, and spend the remainder of the five hours learning how to do things that cannot be done more quickly with an appropriate tool. That will enhance the quality of your work and allow you to be more creative.
Of course, if your goal is simply to learn Flash .. then certainly spend five hours learning and understanding it .. it will probaby be well worth it. But if your goal is to get a job done with minimum time and effort so you can instead concentrate on design and creativity, then that is not a particularly clever thing to do.
thats what i have found at least.i love flash and wont give it up
Who is saying to give it up (other than the over enthusiastic person who started this thread  ). You aren't limited to one tool only, y'know. Unless MacroMedia make you sign a contract saying "I will use Flash for everything and not use any other tools".
for some wanna be program that does everything for you.. its sorta like a robot that does your homework.. i mean do you really want it.. cuz ya you get the work done but what have you learned from it? whats the point of doing homework? peace.
Most people use their programs to get jobs done. Not for 'homework'. If you can find a tool that gets the job done quicker then you'd be a fool not to use it.
SWiSH is a tool .. it doesn't design pages, it has no creativity of its own .. that is something only a person can give it. What it does do is some of the boring mechainical work for you. The idea is for the person to concentrate on the ideas, and higher level things .. and the tool to get the boring mechanical things done.
You could do all your correspondence using an old mechanical typewriter .. and be proud of what you typed. But a word-processor makes the job easier .. and lets you put even more into your work.
[Edited by roger_onslow on 07-05-2001 at 09:33 PM]
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heh so ill just tell my teacher that.. hey if i look off this kids paper i can get it done quicker so im just gonna do that.. i dont think she would go for that.. but hey it gets the job done.. thats a good way to rationalize anything.. hey.. i like that guys car.. well i could work for 3 years and save up or just kill him and steal it.. well i guess ill steal it and take the car.. i mean it gets the job done and faster.. i like your way of thinkin.. (im just messing around)~ :P you dont have to quote me on any of this k.. !~? cuz i know how you like to quote.
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Originally posted by JMulhern
you dont have to quote me on any of this k.. !~? cuz i know how you like to quote.
Who likes to quote
BTW: I'm not advocating cheating on exams or killing people. Fortunately you don't have to cheat or kill anyone to use SWiSH to help you with your designs .. at $US50 for SWiSH v2 you can probably afford to just buy it
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Senior Member
:P
swish is good for - lazy people 
do yourselves a favour, learn how to do the same effects in flash, and you will at least know how its done, taking the easy way lowers your level of understanding, thus making you lazy and dumb :P
*notices since this post began peoples footers almost all have animated text content... *
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Re: :P
SWiSH is good for people who have better things to do with their time than waste it doing effects.
Do yourselves a favour .. learn to do the effects in SWiSH and use your time to learn more about design and high-end flash features. Why waste your talents on simply learning how to do a text effect, when there is a program that will do that for you?
That only ones who are dumb are those who don't have the understanding to see the sense in using tools to help you get your work done.
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Senior Member
get the work done
work im assuiming is your personal site, as i seriously doubt you could compltetly build a site on contract for a company using only swish.. so all those who sat there thinking ''yay im saving time here'' are really just taking the easy way out, and all those who took their time realised they can do whatever the hell they want in flash, so i put it to you, sir, can you build a whole site using only swish?
*throws noodles at smudge*
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F# A# oo
what real effects, besides text effects which can be made in a few seconds with some tweening in flash once you have an engine written, borrowed or edited, can be done in swish? swish is definately not for making full sites
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It depends on what you want to do. And who says (certainly not me) that you have to the development of a site entirely with the one tool?
Certainly many people use SWiSH for authoring the SWF content for commercial work.
And you still don't get it .. use SWiSH for what swish does best .. text and graphic effects, vector graphics, sprites and buttons, (simple) mouse interaction and action.
Use Flash for what it does best .. forms, database backend support, complex action scripting.
You don't HAVE to use the one tool for everything. Just because you CAN do something in Flash doesn't mean you HAVE to do it, nor does it mean that Flash is the BEST way to perform that task.
Just because a product is inexpensive, that doesn't mean it is a toy.
Don't limit your creativity .. go beyond Flash.
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F# A# oo
but my point is, why do something with 2 fairly incompatible tools when 1 does the job ?
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Senior Member
Don't limit your creativity .. go beyond Flash.
/\ /\ /\
which program has the most limitations, swish or flash
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Originally posted by naoneo
which program has the most limitations, swish or flash
The time required to do things in Flash that are quick and easy to do in SWiSH is a big limitation (or at best a hinderance).
What doesn't SWiSH do? As of initial V2 release the main limitations wrt Flash are: morphing, Flash 5 action-scripting, forms, database backends.
Use both tools, and you'll have less limitations .. I never said to throw Flash away .. use BOTH tools as most appropriate. Doesn't anyone get it ?
Are these Flash fanatics so brainwashed or blinded by the time and resources they've devoted to learning Flash that they either don't want to or unable to see the benefits other tools can give them?
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swish effects are really generic too, you can spot them a mile away, It's like that energy sound effect in the flash library that crops up all over the web on sites that look like they were made by... well... people using swish.
If you wanna make some cool text effects, learn a little actionscript and you can do things that are much more impressive, with duplicate movie clips.. and even _randomness_. ^_^
roger, you sound bitter
|||naoneo if your reading this... stop and go to bed, hun!|||
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Originally posted by Ian424
but my point is, why do something with 2 fairly incompatible tools when 1 does the job ?
Someone who only has a hammer sees everything as a nail.
Sometime other tools are more appropriate. Sure .. you can hammer a screw into wood instead of useing a screwdriver, or hammer a length of woodinto shape instead of using a lathe. But just because you CAN do everything with one tool, doesn't mean you should.
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Senior Member
anyway, mr swish PR guy, promoting your software here is okay.. but i will be totally honest with you now, most hardcore flash designers use flash 5, and see swish as a newbies tool, no because its easy, but because it lacks the origionality of flash 5 content, sure you may say, use both etc etc etc, but if your going to use both, you would be using flash 5 for the more advanced things, yes?.. so what makes you think the hardcore users would want to load up another ap to do something the regaurd as basic?
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Senior Member
p.s. john, i'll go bed shortly, im still doing something :P
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Originally posted by scythe
that crops up all over the web on sites that look like they were made by... well... people using swish.
If you wanna make some cool text effects, learn a little actionscript and you can do things that are much more impressive, with duplicate movie clips.. and even _randomness_. ^_^
|||naoneo if your reading this... stop and go to bed, hun!|||
>swish effects are really generic too, you can spot them
>a mile away
You haven't seen v2 yet. There is so much more power and flexibility.
>It's like that energy sound effect in the flash library
Oh .. so you mean Flash users can be lazy too and produce cheesy effects? Now what a surprise.
I think the gripes here are with the sort of people who you see as using SWiSH .. not with the product itself.
The same lazy people can buy Flash and produce rubbish. I guess the 'advantage' of Flash is that it costs so much money and is so hard to use, that the truly lazy people wouldn't bother with it.
>roger, you sound bitter
I'm not bitter .. just frustrated with Flash-fanatic attitudes. Its pathetically short-sighted and unfounded. They seem to live by the principle that nothing that isn't Flash can be any good, because it isn't Flash.
Don'y think I'll bother with them anymore .. they are beyond hope and reason.
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Originally posted by naoneo
anyway, mr swish PR guy, promoting your software here is okay.
I'm not a PR guy .. I'm a programmer. And this is the software I helped develop. I'm not here promoting it .. just responding to the comments about SWiSH in a thread someone else started.
snipso what makes you think the hardcore users would want to load up another ap to do something the regaurd as basic?
Oh .. I'm sorry .. I thought this was a newbies board, not one for hardcore Flash users. Guess the title "Newbies" was a little deceiving
[Edited by roger_onslow on 07-06-2001 at 01:23 AM]
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Senior Member
this is a community, the hardcore users help the newbies alot here, theres a stable system of support, if someone needs help doing somthing, a hardcore user will usually help them out, and in your ego ridden outbursts over getting angry that us ''narrow minded'' hardcore users wont see the light, it must at some point occur to you that hardcore users dont use swish, because they dont need to, my point being that newbies use swish, newbies also use flash 5, the overall thing here is that flash 5 users have a greater potential if learning from scratch rather then getting a seperate application to do the tedious work for them, if everyone took the easy route, the internet would loose origionality, and it would feel like everyone in the damn world used homestead pagebuilder, because the easy of use and speed to create that homestread pagebuilder boasts, is the same things swish boasts, but jesus.. see the light, use ultradev 4 
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by naoneo
your ego ridden outbursts
This is not worth pursuing .. I've had enough of the attitude here.
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Senior Member
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