Racial Slurs- SERIOUS QUESTION!

[CyberSaint77]

I have a question about something - and since this is a forum with a wide viriety of opinions I need make myself clear on this before I start - I don't know a lot about political correctness. I view all people the same regardless of race, or anything else for that matter. I refer to people as white, black, mexican, brown, asian,etc - I don't know what will offend someone so please don't take offence at those terms. In fact - that's exactly what this topic is about. I have a serious question here about the terms people use to refer to different races.

Just a few moments ago, I overheard a coworker (white) casually talking about black people, referring to them as n****rs. I'd like to mention that the place where I live has little ethnic diversity. 90% of the people in my city are white or mexican. So like I said I don't know a lot about what terms are acceptable. But one thing I've always believed is that n****r is a disrespectful term for black people. I told this coworker that he should be careful becuase he's most likely goig to get hurt talking like that. He said that it was okay- it all depends on how you say it- the tone you use. I know he's a really nice guy who I can't imagine being racist - he really believes he's okay in saying that term and he doesn't think a black person would have a problem with it.

I know there are a viriety of races here so somebody tell me what's up! I notice that some black people refer to other black people as n*****s- especially friends. Why is that not disrespectful? Although I have only a little Hispanic in me, my skin is brown and my last name is Gallegos, and people commonly think of me as mexican - but I know that I couldn't call other Mexicans the mexican slur names or I'd get my butt force-fed to me in pieces! And I wouldn't take it too kindly if someone else was calling me those names.

So what is it that makes these terms okay and not okay to say? When does a term go from being disrespectful to being something you call a friend? Is it your race? Is it the tone you are using when you say it? Is it the context of the sentence?

I hope you all can see that I am making a serious inquiry here and mean no offense to anyone!
I like people and am always trying to understand humans better and what makes us tick!

[swampy]

OK, first up I would have told him that he was offending me and to keep his opinion to himself, or at least out of earshot of me.

second. Not all black people call each other n****r, in the same way that not all homosexual people call each other q***r.

Older black people still find the word deeply offensive and I daresay you would be treated with derision by black people who use the word amongst themselves.

The main reason that the word was adopted by young black people was that, by hi jacking the word they felt that they were diluting it and taking away some of the amunition and indirectly power that racists have.

I have black friends that I will call n****r, in private, as part of banter. I would never think of doing it public as other people would get the wrong impression and beleive me disrespectful. I have black friends that I wouldn't even think of using the word in front of.

If you find something offensive speak out about it, otherwise the insults from this colleague will gradually get worse as he beleives that you are in on the whole thing.

In answer to your questions it is wholly the context of the sentence and how well you know the person.


[Edited by swampy on 07-12-2001 at 04:22 PM]

[Axe324]

dunno...i usually refer to people by their names

[Gotha]

It's the tone AND the context it's used in. By the way, this political correctness crap is a joke. We (us Americans) have become a society of people who walk on glass when we open our mouths because we're too afraid we're gonna offend somebody, even if they aren't listening. I say that's wrong. That doesn't mean you go around insulting people but when you have to ask around to make sure you're doing everything right, there's a problem.

Look at comedy. We can't even laugh at ourselves anymore. I remember this one Saturday Night Live skit in the 70's where one black person alluded to himself being more intelligent than another black person because he was a light-skinned black. Funny stuff, but you know that someone would complain today. There's always someone out there just waiting to call someone else a "racist" because it gives them the right to criticize that person without taking any criticism in return. It's all a power trip.

People need to lighten up.

[LanSite]

Racial slurs ... wow - what a topic!

Being half Korean (the other half German and French) - I can only speak for myself ... First off, let me say I am not entirely politically correct ~ nor do I believe in all this 'political correctness' ~ I think it's sort of gotten out of hand ... However, personally, I would never go up to a black person I know and call them the 'n' word ... Growing up, this was a word that always had negative connotations ~ I don't care for, either, those 'cute little names' (you know the ones I'm talking about - the ones said with scorn and derision) that people have for oriental people, black people or any other race. Again, growing up - I was taught they are all offensive. And of course, there are the names that my mother's family (Korean) had for people like me (half-breed) ... should anyone dare have the gall to come to my face and call me that (which someone actually did - in my own home, no less, but that's another story) ... I would kindly show them the door and pity them their small minds.

Generally speaking, however - to call someone black rather than African American, oriental rather than Asian and so on, I don't believe to be offensive or in bad taste. I find it's largely personal, though

[LanSite]

It's not really the word itself ... it's the way the word is said ... What context it's being said in ... Personally, I've never liked to be insulted I don't gnash my teeth over it all day or lose sleep over it at night, but I won't have someone insult me in my own home. That's just poor. And if I'm out and about - I remove myself from whatever conversation I may be in ... I don't like to listen to stuff like that

[dazedandconfused]

I'm black and yes sometimes you hear black people call each other the "N" word....you also may run up against black people who hate the word no matter who says it.

I know it's kind of warped, but I heard this analogy from someone a talking about this same subject...it's alright for black folks to say it, but it's not okay for whites.
Imagine if you will, that you and your siblings or you and your sig other (some relationship where it's sort of protective) can call each other "moron", "idiot", "b*tch",...etc etc (you get the picture I hope) in a joking manner without feelings getting hurt. Now imagine if let's say a casual aquaintance came into your home, overheard you call your sis or bro or sig other these words and decided to call them an idiot or moron. It would be a whole 'nother ball of wax wouldn't it?
Now imagine this in a racial context.
Women call each other b**ch and whore all the time (sometimes jokingly, sometimes not), but we don't like hearing male rap artists saying it 100 times on their records. Men talk some wicked trash on the basketball court, but don't even think of trying it on the street. It's all sort of double standard, but that's the way it is.

[swampy]

Originally posted by dazedandconfused
I'm black and yes sometimes you hear black people call each other the "N" word....you also may run up against black people who hate the word no matter who says it.

I know it's kind of warped, but I heard this analogy from someone a talking about this same subject...it's alright for black folks to say it, but it's not okay for whites.
Imagine if you will, that you and your siblings or you and your sig other (some relationship where it's sort of protective) can call each other "moron", "idiot", "b*tch",...etc etc (you get the picture I hope) in a joking manner without feelings getting hurt. Now imagine if let's say a casual aquaintance came into your home, overheard you call your sis or bro or sig other these words and decided to call them an idiot or moron. It would be a whole 'nother ball of wax wouldn't it?
Now imagine this in a racial context.
Women call each other b**ch and whore all the time (sometimes jokingly, sometimes not), but we don't like hearing male rap artists saying it 100 times on their records. Men talk some wicked trash on the basketball court, but don't even think of trying it on the street. It's all sort of double standard, but that's the way it is.

I agree totally with this, the fact that I call some of my friends names indicates that I am on that level with theose particular people. I would never presume to be on that level with other people.

[Mac8myPC]

oooh another deep thread

i have to say that i totally agree with the joking thing. when your with your friends just about anything goes sometimes

But man, it kinda get's my goat when someone is saying racist jokes or downtalking someone else and using racial slurs. to me it just demeans the person using the terms, rather than him/her demeaning anyone else. it makes people look ignorant and stupid when they say things like that. especially if they think they're funny.

[Grifter730]

Dude, when it's in context of a joke, you have to listen and take it as such. I don't care what anyone says, racist jokes are funny as hell. I'm Chinese, and I never care when I hear a racist joke even if it's on asian people. Humor is humor. Some people find it funny, others don't, you just have to be careful who you say it to. Other than that, I totally agree with what dazedandconfused said.

Riki

[LanSite]

Originally posted by Grifter730
Dude, when it's in context of a joke, you have to listen and take it as such. I don't care what anyone says, racist jokes are funny as hell. I'm Chinese, and I never care when I hear a racist joke even if it's on asian people. Humor is humor. Some people find it funny, others don't, you just have to be careful who you say it to. Other than that, I totally agree with what dazedandconfused said.

Riki

Well ... yeah - I have to agree, Riki ... Margaret Cho doing her grandmother impression is the funniest thing I've ever seen ... I like a joke as much as the next guy does, but it's the slurs I don't like

[iCEBERG2000]

ok just thought of that:

Two really big guys meet up. One says:
"Yo whassup fat ass!"

Now you see if you were skinny and you would have called the big guy a "fat ass" then it would be a totally different story as if another fat ass calls another fat ass "fat ass".

It does make sense and is applicable to the topic matter.

iCEBERG

[mrxypaxn]

Originally posted by iCEBERG2000

ok just thought of that:

Two really big guys meet up. One says:
"Yo whassup fat ass!"

Now you see if you were skinny and you would have called the big guy a "fat ass" then it would be a totally different story as if another fat ass calls another fat ass "fat ass".

It does make sense and is applicable to the topic matter.

iCEBERG

Yeah, its the whole 'pot calling the kettle black' thing when someone says that. though I've never heard one girl call another "b*tch".

[Hellbelowme]

SI Senior! My opinion is that since we all have names we should always call eachothers names, but in the case we talk about others and we don't know their names i believe that the human language is wide enough in order to help anyone express him self without using the word n***o . What he could use instead is "the bro" or "the hos". Actualy most of people refer to the following ethnicities as:
Whites - dude
Black - bro
Hyspanos - hos

YAYAYYAYAYyyyya a! Andele!

[CyberSaint77]

I guess that if you were good enough friends with someone that they knew you were joking, that would be okay. I still can't see myslef ever using those racial slurs in any case.

I agree with what Mac said about people just joking around though. I think it's kind of lame to use disrespectful slurs in jokes and common conversation.

I want to thank everyone for their input to this thread! I enjoy seeing different angles and other points of view on subjects! It seems we all pretty much feel the same way - that's pretty cool. Shows you that we're all not really that diffrent after all!

[killabry]

Originally posted by iCEBERG2000

ok just thought of that:

Two really big guys meet up. One says:
"Yo whassup fat ass!"

Now you see if you were skinny and you would have called the big guy a "fat ass" then it would be a totally different story as if another fat ass calls another fat ass "fat ass".

It does make sense and is applicable to the topic matter.

iCEBERG

I'm offended by the exsessive use of the word "Fat-ass", I myself being.... a fat-ass, but you can't say it, because ur a skinny guy!

[Dzine]

its all a matter of the person hearing In my opinion. The person saying it could honestly be joking and not have a drop of racial thought in theyre mind, but if the person "hearing" it doesnt take it that way then its a problem.


I have black friends, (I say Black because I dont know any black people who were born in africa and came here so the term African American doesnt apply to ALL the black people I know, just as well I dont go around calling others and myself Eurpoean-Americans), one in particular is a female, the funniest woman I know, she calls me ****** all the time as well as cracker and honky, and i return it just as well.

We both know nothing is meant by it.

I agree with Gotha on this, PC is taking over and its just getting out of hand. And Yes Double standards do exist and "thats just the way it is" is no excuse, either let everyone say something as long as the meaning behind it in jest or dont let anyone.

Example,

Chris rock (whome i love by the way, hes funny as hell) did a bit during his last stand up about Willie, the old black man you work with.

He must have used the word Cracker 12 times or so in that skit (for those of you who dont know Cracker and Honkey were the responce to the word ****** you know "White like a soda Cracker" ) I found it funny as hell. But, what if a white comedian or asian etc etc did the same bit but reversed it and Willie was wite and used the word ****** about as many times as cracker was used? How would that go over?




In my opinion as well as others, ****** has become a word that describes people of all colors who do stupid stuff and act like they dont care.

There are white ******s, there are black ******s, asian, hispanic, indian...

Chris Rock said it best when he said... "A Black Man..HATES a ******, they make him look bad. "


D


one more thing, youll notice that i did not use the *** and censore myself . Why? Im not using the word against someone and the context is acceptable. We all know what word we are talking about so what is the point?


[Edited by Dzine on 07-13-2001 at 12:25 AM]

[dazedandconfused]

Originally posted by Dzine
its all a matter of the person hearing In my opinion. The person saying it could honestly be joking and not have a drop of racial thought in theyre mind, but if the person "hearing" it doesnt take it that way then its a problem.


I have black friends, (I say Black because I dont know any black people who were born in africa and came here so the term African American doesnt apply to ALL the black people I know, just as well I dont go around calling others and myself Eurpoean-Americans), one in particular is a female, the funniest woman I know, she calls me ****** all the time as well as cracker and honky, and i return it just as well.

We both know nothing is meant by it.

I agree with Gotha on this, PC is taking over and its just getting out of hand. And Yes Double standards do exist and "thats just the way it is" is no excuse, either let everyone say something as long as the meaning behind it in jest or dont let anyone.

Example,

Chris rock (whome i love by the way, hes funny as hell) did a bit during his last stand up about Willie, the old black man you work with.

He must have used the word Cracker 12 times or so in that skit (for those of you who dont know Cracker and Honkey were the responce to the word ****** you know "White like a soda Cracker" ) I found it funny as hell. But, what if a white comedian or asian etc etc did the same bit but reversed it and Willie was wite and used the word ****** about as many times as cracker was used? How would that go over?




In my opinion as well as others, ****** has become a word that describes people of all colors who do stupid stuff and act like they dont care.

There are white ******s, there are black ******s, asian, hispanic, indian...

Chris Rock said it best when he said... "A Black Man..HATES a ******, they make him look bad. "


D


one more thing, youll notice that i did not use the *** and censore myself . Why? Im not using the word against someone and the context is acceptable. We all know what word we are talking about so what is the point?


[Edited by Dzine on 07-13-2001 at 12:25 AM]

I love the whole "yeah there are white ******s and black ******s" argument...yet I never see white people call each other ******. Go figure. There is no racial tension white on white, black and white...see you get it? As far as how white people feel when they are called "honkey", I can't address that because I'm not white, but I could probably assume (if you're white) your grandparents or parents have never been thrown out of a restaurant or store b/c of color...or that someone of your race has been dragged from behind a pickup truck because of color. The word "******" is a bad history lesson for some of us.
If you're German you don't go spouting off the word "kike" in front of someone Jewish unless you know them really really well. And nice of you to bring up old Chris Rock because if you didn't know he was bused to an all white school and got his ass kicked practically every day by ---you got it white kids, so he's got some issues of his own. As far as your double take on my double standard theory try a little experiment. The next time you go out with your black friend try calling her a ****** in public and see what happens. Like a post said earlier, with close friends practically anything goes, but out on the street it's a different ballgame.

P.S. I really didn't know what the rules were on this board, that's why I didn't spell out the words. Thanks for clarifying.

[Dzine]

We do go out on the street and talk like that, and laugh at the reactions we get. The "I cant believe she just let him call her that" looks we get from white and black folks sometimes are hillarious. People are too damn serious these days, thats the problem.

And Regardless of whether Chris was bussed to Aspen the white capital of the wrold or to Harlem it makes no difference to the point that he can say what he says and others cant.

My argument is everyone should be able to say it, or none at all.

And your right Ive never been tossed out of anyplace because of my color, the world is a crappy place like that.

But I am judged on the way the more stupid members of my race act. The people who throw folk out of stores because of race, give me a bad name. Just like a "thug" stealing from his neighbors and shooting up the place give fine upstanding black folks a bad name. Thats how screwed up the world is.

(lets forget the whole white black issue, ALL races have problems with each other for some stupid reason )

My main argument is, if its fainess and equality that we ALL want not just blacks, whites, asians, hispanics, and brittish folks and Canadians even they dont count for much. (See? a harmless poke and my northern and "across the pond" friends) then lets be fair damnit, if you want to use a word and it doesnt offend someone, then damnit i should be able to say it as well.


"you" doesnt mean anyone in particular.

D

[Visionray]

Heres my take on this issue:
If a black guy comes up to most white people and calls them a "honkey" or a "cracker" they would probably laugh and not even think about it. On the other hand, a white guy calls a black guy the N word, or even says the N word in front of a black guy, then thats cause for an asskicking.
Why is this so? Because the word ****** has a lot more meaning behind it. The word is deep rooted and directly coorelates with the negative term used towards blacks during slavery. So obviously its not the word itself, its the negative and derogatory meaning behind the word. Thats why I dont ever say it, in public or to a black person. Its wrong and straight out ingnorant. If black people want to say it to each other, then thats their choice and their right.