MX is this Macromedia's attempt to make a quick buck???

[ronberkes]

I know, I am going to get slack for this one but. I have a bunch of cutomers pissed of at me right about now. So I feel like I have a right to speak my word.

[Banana Fred]

How is Macromedia's MX marketing campaing responsible for YOUR customers being pissed at YOU? You didn't even say anything worth reading.

[pmineault]

I think Macromedia is one of the most well-respected software companies out there, and I don't believe they would stand to tarnish their reputation in order to 'make a quick buck'.

I must say I personally love Flash MX, what with all the new Actionscript, the layout, the components, etc. The only thing I don't like about it is the now infamous streaming bug which Macromedia is working hard on getting fixed.

What is the issue you're talking about anyways? Are you having a specific problem?

[grand tarkin]

Forgive me for asking, but what is the infamous streaming bug- in a nutshell, and in anticipation what are the workarounds.

Cheers.

[brutfood]

I joined this flashkit site when I discovered the (less-infamous) shared-library bug in Flash MX.

This Flash MX forum serves two completely different purposes, and I think needs to be split into TWO forums.

1. People who need to pick someone elses brain with issues about using Flash MX.

2. Important discussions about bugs in Flash MX and Flash 6 player.

I considered a third forum - people praising Flash MX - but we can't cater for minorities this small can we


To test for the shared-library bug (which shows up in the browser plug-in, not the standalone player) - try this experiment:-

1. Go to http://itools.mac.com

2. Click on the iDisk tab

3. Enter 'brutfood' in the open public folder tab and click the open public folder button.

4. Download the files and try the goto.html.goto.swf, colour.html/colour.swf experiments both in your browser and in your standalone player. (lib.swf is a shared library)

5. Let me know what happens.

Not everyone has the problem, but I have discovered now it happens on both MACS and PCs.

Daniel

[CommandLogic]

For the developer, the Flash MX ActionScript engine represents an ape to modern man evolution withing the Flash Player. With event handling and the ability to work with linkage as Objects, we're going to see a lot of exciting new applications creeping up built in pure Flash. Flash has already established itself as the de-facto must have for vector based animations and dynamic media websites. The MX engine is just further agmentinh this technology for the developer. True it's not quite there. And from a designer point of view there's not much more kick than Flash 5. But that's not the goal of the MX vision. Think function over form. And you'll see where this is leading.

Peace out.

[brutfood]

Originally posted by CommandLogic
For the developer, the Flash MX ActionScript engine represents an ape to modern man evolution withing the Flash Player...Think function over form. And you'll see where this is leading.

Yes, and with my strong programming/development background I'd be the first to congratulate Macromedia on their vision - if it were not for their implementation.

In Flash 5 - I embraced the shared libraries as a good idea. Now if I use them in Flash MX - actionscript stops working properly.

Going back to the original point of this thread -"Is Macromedia just making a quick buck over the release of Flash MX?" I would say YES - for the following reasons:

1. It doesn't work - they rushed it to market without properly testing it - and they expect us to fall over the bugs for them.

2. After sales service. I reported an issue to technical support a week ago. I phoned up today to see what progress they had made. They hadn't investigated my issue. And they hadn't tried the test that I told them would demonstrate the issue. They have not yet recognised this issue as a bug in their software - nor do they seem willing to go down that route.

I am naturally frustrated about this. It is holding-up a big flash-based project that I've been working on for many months (wait till you see it .

Macromedia has been forced into looking into the streaming bug because of developer pressure - and I fear that if not enough people discover or complain about this issue then Macromedia won't bother to fix it.

This is why I have been so active on this forum lately.

I am pleased that the shared library problem affects PCs too. If it was restricted to the mac - then I fear Macromedia really would put a remedy on the back burner. The technical support guy wasn't even sure where he could find a mac!?

To feel less frustrated about this issue - I would expect the following from Macromedia:-

1. Acknowledgement that the problem exists.

2. Some indication of when a new bug-fix update will be released.

...or is this a fantasy?

[alohaha]

Agree, and we continue to get no word from the arrogant MM fools as to when they're planning on releasing a bug fix/patch for all the dozens of problems, incl. the streaming media bug and others, that this beta release has incurred on the design community.

wouldn't it be nice if they didn't Use us all as beta testers, selling this pos as finished code when in fact it's a beta?

this is disappointing from macromedia, I hope at least a few folks get fired over this bs

[CommandLogic]

Yeah, I'd guess I have to agree with you on the implementation faults. On big MAC's behalf, as far as the recent glitches in working with media dynamically outside the player at runtime, such as streaming media, we're looking at a few different browser and OS compatability problems that proabably should have been explorered further before the release. There's a multitude of factors and infinite nuber of client configurations that can adversely effect the function of the MX media platform. If a further attempt was made to purge every possible monkey-wrench we would have seen not even heard of Flash MX until most likely a year from now. The developer leverage that MX has brought to the market in my opinion out weight the persuit of perfection. And it is far from perfect. But this scenario kind of sounds like Windows. Service pack to fix service pack in the future... Brutfood and everyone here, what exactly are the problems you are working with? Maybe I can find you a work around or even a fix.

Peace

[SOLOMONF]

I have noticed the shared library problem too - as well as constant crashing -- the damn thing crashes when I change panel layouts -- open the library or open reference pane --

The streaming problem has rendered several of my projects inoperable -- I know that is a player problem, but the dev environment still has gobs of problems. My timeline crawls down my screen sometimes -- I have a 2GHZ cpu and 1GB Ram - but when I get down to the pixel level, Flash waits a second or 2 after every action -- change tool - 2 seconds - select text - 2 seconds - type text - 2 seconds ---- the whole thing starts to drag out like hell.

There is also a memory leak with the app -- if you run it more than 5 or 6 hours, the resource usage goes off the chart ( I am using Win 2K with all recent updates )

Another thing that really burns me is that they don't offer documentation for a lot of their added code ( mic, video, sharedObjects, etc ). Sure they may post it sometime, somewhere. but I paid a few hundred bucks for this damn thing - I think it should be documented -- if the feature is sketchy, say so in the documentation. Don't ommit it altogether.

I liked MM products up until this point, but I am really kind of ticked off by them now. Maybe all these problems are because of their purchase of Allaire - maybe they're more interested in the server side of things now, but I am annoyed that they would release a product so full of holes -- then not make any mention or attempt at patching things.

The most annoying thing though is that Flash MX has been corrupting old Flash 5 files -- just opening the file in MX corrupted 4 of my docs so far -- I talked to their tech support moron and - of course - the $5.75/hr moron had no idea what I was talking about - could not find the problem in his book - and had no idea if it is a known issue.

I called them about every bug/problem so far -- I would have gotten better reults slamming my head in a car door ( at leaset I would not have had to listen to their hold music ). Thekid had no idea what I was talking about -- sounded like he was more of a director tech support guy - when I used director terminology to try to explain the problem he put me on hold and hung up. I was not impressed.

So bottom line, MX is a good product, but it is still in beta - nothing wrong with that, if they patch it, but MM is not exactly known for patching their programs. MS has wads of patches daily -- they release software that should still be in beta, but the patch the hell out of it and it usually ends up pretty functional. The only patch I remember seeing from MM was a Fireworks patch --- and that was buried on their site.

GAAAAAHHHHH! Sorry to ramble - but I am mighty annoyed.

[trikenit]

Originally posted by alohaha
Agree, and we continue to get no word from the arrogant MM fools as to when they're planning on releasing a bug fix/patch for all the dozens of problems, incl. the streaming media bug and others, that this beta release has incurred on the design community.

wouldn't it be nice if they didn't Use us all as beta testers, selling this pos as finished code when in fact it's a beta?

this is disappointing from macromedia, I hope at least a few folks get fired over this bs

Wow, who the hell are you to call the people at Macromedia 'arrogant fools'? Also, to wish that people are fired for the few bugs in MX? Where do you get off saying such things? Clearly because this is a forum online you feel you are protected and can say these things while staying anonymous. I would suspect you would choose your words more wisely if you were to speak directly to people, instead of online. The immense improvements and new functionality clearly surpasses the few bugs with MX, and more than likely there is a work around for these issues (except the streaming glitch). So I would advise you to choose your words more carefully, or at least think before you say things like that on the board again.

[dieselfuel]

Always remember:

It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

Also remember (for those who are complaining about bugs) if you have not learned this in life yet, take something from it now... do not purchase anything immediately off the product line.

As we all know, there are always problems and bugs in first run products. To expect anything else is not only foolish, but pathetic.

At least MM is addressing the issues, lesser caliber software companies would just let you rot.

The lesson here for you complainers is:
Do not blame MM for your own decision to promise your clients things that you, yourself, are not 100% sure can be accomplished yet.

Go ahead, flame me now, but this is the plain truth here. If you can't see it, then well, good luck in life.

(oh, by the bye, it works flawlessly on my Mac, so far)

=)

[SOLOMONF]

I agree with limiting focus to the actual problems -- not getting pissed at the company itself.

Software is developed by a collection of minds and when it becomes large and complex it gets difficult to contain and track all of the problems. Added to that the downturn in the industry and a change in direction of the corporation - I can see that MM has a lot of pressure coming at it from all sides.

I do not like their tech support, I think if you are supporting a product, you should have people with at least some familiarity with the product -- maybe I just got a bad tech support guy the times I called.

As far as MM being arrogant fools - obviously they are not fools if they are making the application you are so fired up about - I would challeng you to create your own if you feel that they really are fools

As far as their arrogance - actually they are really down to earth- nice guys. At the new york UCON last year - everybody in the company was very cool and approachable. I ate lunch with Jeremy Allaire - seemed like a good guy - and a lot more humble than most of the rich guys I know.

I can understand your anger aloha, but don't personallize it -- don't hope people get fired - failed software is a collective problem and requires a collective effort in order to fix it.

I just hope they decide to patch the application and the player -- both are sketchy.

I also think that there may be individual disk problems - I was discussing my crash problems with a friend - he has had no problems - our computers are similar -- I got my disk a few weeks ago though - he got his yesterday. I think that there may have been an initial release of either some flawed disks or an earlier iteration of the program. I am calling MM now and I am going to exchange my disk for a new one -- maybe you should try it too.

But anyway - And as far as using us all as beta testers - I don't know a program released in the past 10 years that has come out 100% bug free - everything requires patches these days -- and I don't mind having beta software - but MM has a history of not patching their products -- that is my worry

well -- sorry for rambling on about nothing here.
Bye

[CommandLogic]

In silence, I say whoop there it is.

[CommandLogic]

Someone just mailed me an anonymous virtual smack. =p So not cool.

[harmonixmedia]

Is Macromedia trying to make a quick buck? Oh yes, of course. They must have known about the streaming bug and just left it in to cause havoc and unhappy customers. They must have planed on thousands of calls from every whining user with a new “bug” to report. I’m sure they couldn’t wait to rewrite their Flash 6 player and deal with all the bad press from their biggest user groups. I’m sure that they decided it would all be worth it if they could just get your hard earned cash (which you might not even be making if it weren’t for their pervious releases).

Wake up! I’ve worked with enough software engineers on enough projects to know that sometimes things slip through. Sometimes huge things, like in this case. For months I would hear complaining about “When is Flash 6 coming out?” “When will they make action script more robust” “For heaven’s sake please give us video in Flash 6”. There was a lot of pressure on them to come up with a huge evolution in the next release. From what I hear another company, a much bigger one that also starts with a “M” is really cheesed off about MM putting video in Flash. The after a bumpy release everyone is complaining all over again.

Yes the streaming bug totally sucks. But they’re trying to fix it, and it’s not as if they’re charging for the patch. I do wish that MM gave more documentation on the issue and a way to find out about progress on their site. That is one thing that I think they could do. I shouldn't have to come to FlashKit to find out if there is a new player yet.

There is so much more to Flash MX then multimedia now. There are huge advances in a verity of aspects (ie. lineto, curveto, fill) that I think are going to be massive in the future.

Over all I love Flash MX.

[CommandLogic]

SO true ... Production time for perfection = externity.

[SOLOMONF]

Originally posted by grand tarkin
Forgive me for asking, but what is the infamous streaming bug- in a nutshell, and in anticipation what are the workarounds.

The streaming issue refers to Flash MX not breaking the stream when a new streamed data request is sent or when a stream container is destroyed.

When a remote user loads a movie clip, then if they decide to change which clip loads, or unload the movie, or delete the container, or go to a new web page, the data continues to download.

This bug is imperceptable in most cases with broadband users ( which is probably why it was never noticed by MM's beta testers )but users on dialup connections will notice their connection degrade rapidly as the concurrent loads grow.

The only remedy to stop the clips from downloading is to close the browser window that contains the movie. This seems to effect Mac, PC - IE and Netscape equally.

MM said they are aware of and working on the issue and they should have a new player available soon.

Hope this answered your question clearly

[SOLOMONF]

how long exactly is externity?

[harmonixmedia]

In software design? 1 year
On the Internet? 15 sec.
On TV? 3 sec.
When talking to my in-laws? .5 sec.