Macromedia is using YOU to leech and spy

**Vmusic** · 05-14-2002, 08:10 AM

The Flash 6 Player has and Flash 6 movies have the ability to allow Macromedia to leech into PERSONAL computers (which they have no business connecting too)

See this article:
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/05/1....shtml?tid=158

If you have installed Flash MX, or have installed the Flash 6 player.... then to prove this Right Click on a flash 6 movie, and a context menu appears. Select the 'Settings...' option from this context menu. You can see for yourself what Macromedia's intentions are.

I am embarrased to be associated with such underhandedness.

This is a sad day in Animation History.

**cosmiceye** · 05-14-2002, 09:22 AM

macromedia isnt spying, but if you visit the videochat on http://www.mediatemple.com, you will be able to spy on other people, and the people that are visiting the site can spy on you.
If you use the sharedObject, you can steal information from the people visiting your site and store that information as a flashcookie at their local computers.

but I dont really think its sad...I,m used to being watched, becouse I use windows xp and we all know that Bill Gates has a fetish for spying...

**Abelius** · 05-14-2002, 09:33 AM

That is absolutely right. Bill Gates might be a smart fella, but not without his fetishes. But I also agree with the fact that Macromedia is NOT trying to spy on users...
Did you actually understand the article you placed a link to, Vmusic?
Also, Sorenson Inc. has a few nice comments that would explain your doubts...

**Vmusic** · 05-14-2002, 10:14 AM

Why of course... shared objects, yes why my technical mind didn't know that I don't understand.

Anytime somebody 'obtains' any personal information without knowledgeable consent, it is spying.

If I found a way to look into your house without first openly informing you about it....

What would you call that?
Shared objects?

But if I look on your computer without you knowing about it, well that's ok.

We live in a sad world where the only thing that makes us unique is fading fast......

Whats on my computer is mine. I don't want it 'shared' by anyone unless I am told openly about it, and I give consent to it. Flash 6 movies DO NOT provide open consent.

**NerdInside** · 05-14-2002, 10:24 AM

Have you made a shared object script? You give that object a name. Only if someone else knows the name can they view. It also can only be viewed in Flash and then you have to know the variables stored in the object.

Macromedia is not spying on us. If anyone is, its people who are using Flash for the wrong reason. They would also have to make massive scripts to be able to do so.

**leason** · 05-14-2002, 10:25 AM

Call me an optimist, but it seems like autodetecting a microphone and camara could be a feature...

Perhaps flash developers would want to take advantage of this hardware and incorporate into thier movies? Maybe a better way to handle the feature would be a more open communication of it's abilities and the intentions of Macromedia.

By the way, if your computer is plugged in to the internet, then you should know that you are at risk to spying. You can never be truly safe because hackers will always be ahead of the defenders.

**NerdInside** · 05-14-2002, 10:37 AM

http://www.macromedia.com/support/fl...dded_video.htm

Tells you how to make a simple webcam viewer in Flash. It won't transfer the file anywhere, but thats not my point. My point is that, if you make whats in that tutorial, you will notice it asks you if it can acccess your camera and microphone.

**d_humphrey** · 05-14-2002, 12:11 PM

VMusic:

Do you therefore disable cookies in your browser when surfing the web?

How many web sites have you seen that post a 'We are going to spy at your cookies' disclaimer?

Didn't think so, still think it's spying?

The sharedObject is only accessible by the domain that created it - just like cookies.

Dan (Super Spy).

**Vmusic** · 05-14-2002, 01:36 PM

Yes,
We've had some great discourse here.

Certainly there can be advantages and usefullness for such features.

My point is this: what (should) separate some 'sleaze bag' cookie or cookie reader, or agent, or bot fffffrrrromm a respected company or from a respectable web site using a high quality animation?

INFORMED CONSENT

and yes, I do restrict cookies in my browswer. Why does CNN dot com need 12 cookies? hhhhhmmmmmm. If it looks like a shark, smells like a shark, and sounds like a shark, chances are ... its a shark.

What if there was a scanner in the seats at movies, and after all you bought a ticket to go into the movie and watch, so they have a right to scan the information in your wallet. Don't they?

NO NO NO NO NO, the only information ANYBODY has a right to about me, is the information I (me, moi) CONSENT to provide them.

And YES, I do NOT consider INTUIT software (Quick Books) an honest reputable company for that very reason.

There is nothing WHATSOEVER wrong with MM placing great tools into Flash..... but being honest and respsonible means that every time you come across a flash movie that might access information you SHOULD KNOW UP FRONT!!!

Wake Up People.... Data and Information is the last true great frontier and it's being stolen by thieves and crooks with tools like?

**d_humphrey** · 05-14-2002, 01:51 PM

Hello Again VMusic,

My Final say on this then:

Therefore, in your opinion 99.9% of websites are irresponsible for using cookies and not telling you.

I wonder if you even know what a cookie is, what people store in cookies, and how they are used and likewise the shared data object - it seems not.

Macromedia aren't publishing your websites for you, simply providing you with a tool to do so, therefore how are macromedia being irresponsible?

Quoting you:

but being honest and respsonible means that every time you come across a flash movie that might access information you SHOULD KNOW UP FRONT!!!

Therefore it is your responsibility as a developer to put a polite notice on any site you publish stating 'This website may infringe on your human rights by spying on your data'.

I really can't make up my mind if you believe what you are saying or are just trying to incite a good debate, but you're entitled to your own opinion.

Dan

**NerdInside** · 05-14-2002, 01:52 PM

So what do you want? Macromedia to start giving security certificates to websites, and only allow Flash to save a cookie from that website? No no no no no no no. Then there would be no point in putting that feature in the software.

Or maybe an alert would be better. A little pop-up comes up whenever a website puts a shared object on your computer. But wait, that is built into the player! Just slide the slider to 0 and it asks.

No valuable info is stored in shared objects. Or, I should say, no valuable info should be stored in a shared object. Its just not smart webmastering. Maybe a username or something like that, so it can be called back once you come back to the site. But you don't have to put your real name in there.

Everything on the Internet is a choice. That includes cookies and shared objects. If you think cookies and shared objects are bad, you are more prone to be hacked while your computer is idle then right now as you browse.

**Sir Yendor** · 05-14-2002, 02:08 PM

d_humphrey very well said -

quote -

Therefore it is your responsibility as a developer to put a polite notice on any site you publish stating 'This website may infringe on your human rights by spying on your data'.

If he really beleives what he is saying, then he should put a warning of that nature on each and every Flash movie he makes.

Or better yet, stop using Flash altogether. If it is really that vile, don't support the Dark Side.

**Viper32817** · 05-14-2002, 02:09 PM

VMusic needs to educate himself more before he speaks up. This is hilarious. I love when people think that everyone is out to get them...paranoid a little? You have choices with cookies and shared objects. If you don't like it, don't connect to the internet. Nothing "personal" is stored in a cookie or shared object that could enable someone to know who you are, etc. Unless you are a stupid person who registers their computer with the username of their real name. Use fake names...aliases. Read up on cookies and shared objects...most they store are last time you accessed the site, maybe some customized settings you had on their site, or your username (which should NOT be your real name). No big personal info there. Granted some malicious person could do more with cookies, etc. But not reputable sites...relax and educate yourself before speaking up. If you notice on slashdot, all those user know nothing about Flash or shared objects OR cookies. They are all uneducated web surfers with paranoid minds. Peace.

**Irfaan.com** · 05-14-2002, 03:12 PM

Vmusic first has to understand WHAT these options are there for. These are OPTIONS to let the user select weather or not he/she wants the page to be able to access their webcam/mic for USER purposes... again... it is still and OPTION...

Why would a large, powerful, intelligent company such as Macromedia go about invading ones privacy... think about what you're saying here..

C'mon man... thinK!

Irfaan

**HereNt** · 05-14-2002, 04:59 PM

Personally, I kind of like the camera and microphone features - all they need to do now is come out with a pocket PC with a mic and camera and you can have wireless video cell phones with a cool flash interface. It would be AWESOME! Who cares if they store a few K with your name and password and stuff so that you can use the features? That's what personalized web content is all about. It's what made several companies successful, and it shouldn't really make you that paranoid, since Flash shared objects are probably harder to get at than regular cookies.

Here's the only site I've seen so far that lets you drop footage from your webcam into the site -

http://www.randommedia.co.uk/

Anyway, that's my 2 cents

**NerdInside** · 05-14-2002, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by HereNt
Here's the only site I've seen so far that lets you drop footage from your webcam into the site -

http://www.randommedia.co.uk/

WHAAA?!!!! You haven't seen http://mtcom.ssmx01.mediatemple.net/vidchat/chat.html

**HereNt** · 05-14-2002, 05:07 PM

Wow. Now if only I had a webcam I could use it instead of just watching it

**NerdInside** · 05-14-2002, 05:09 PM

A few minutes ago they were talking about how they got the Macromedia software that isn't out yet.

**HereNt** · 05-14-2002, 05:16 PM

Must be that "Tin Box" that Jeremy Allaire alludes to in one of those white paper interviews on the Macromedia site. I think this is the type of stuff that's going to bring the net back and get us all some more work. It'd be nice if somebody made a projector that let you just browse through Flash sites with no HTML interaction at all. It'd be cool to replace IE and Netscape with a all Flash client... Anybody got any ideas if it would be possible?

HTML is dead. Long Live Flash.

**NerdInside** · 05-14-2002, 05:21 PM

They were saying that these mediatemple people "are like Macromedia's best friend" and they got that new software thats coming out in a few months. I have seen another site that had the same thing. They had different rooms that you could go into. Kinda like a club hang out. But it might of been the same site, with different Flash.

And, long live Flash!
VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!

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Ah Shared Objects...

Great Discourse

Oooooohhhh..

Very well said

Agreed

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