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  1. #1
    Senior Member zoranvedek's Avatar
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    Well, I suppose we need to decide on a project and go from there. I'm real easy to get along with, so you guys come up with something and we can go from there.

    -Jason

  2. #2
    Senior Member kusco's Avatar
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    some thoughts...

    I'm all for a project

    I'd like to propose a simple enough game like PacMan. It's not too complicated, requires javascript, animation, and keyboard input.

    One thing I was thinking about and that is how do we manage the code/movies. I'm thinking that a single source/repository would be ideal but not essential. This would help to keep track of the changes.

    Another idea would be to break the project up into components and have a volunteer to work on one aspect of it. When the job is done it can be added to the final product and reviewed by the other participents of the project.

    Which ever way we go - IT WILL BE A LOT OF FUN AND LEARNING FOR ALL

    One thing I don't want it to become is a committee.

    I'd like to hear what others have to say too. C'mon folks! This is your FORUM too!

    Cheers,
    Ed

  3. #3
    KoolMoves Moderator blanius's Avatar
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    Re: some thoughts...

    Originally posted by kusco
    I'm all for a project

    I'd like to propose a simple enough game like PacMan. It's not too complicated, requires javascript, animation, and keyboard input.

    One thing I was thinking about and that is how do we manage the code/movies. I'm thinking that a single source/repository would be ideal but not essential. This would help to keep track of the changes.

    Another idea would be to break the project up into components and have a volunteer to work on one aspect of it. When the job is done it can be added to the final product and reviewed by the other participents of the project.

    Pac Man eh? That could lead to some interesting problems!! I'm in...
    I propose these specs.

    480x360 size

    We create a "container" movie that will house the start-up and instructions. This container can then load via LOADMOVIE the game itself. This allows viewing of instructions and into while game loads.

    We come up with a map template that allows making different levels.

    we design no more than two levels to start. Keep focus on game play.

    We can post at deadyeti, Ed I'll set you for access




  4. #4
    Senior Member kusco's Avatar
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    Cool.

    Hmmm,

    My first question related to this project will be...

    ...What is a 'container' movie? Is this the same as a normal movie that is loaded using the Load Movie?

    Posting at deadyeti sounds excellent.

    All we need to do now is break the project up into components ie. artwork, level building, help/instructions, sound, programming and animation. Have I left anything out?

    I'm itching to get started.

    The more volunteers we have the more ideas we'll be able to share.

    Cheers,
    Ed

  5. #5
    Senior Member zoranvedek's Avatar
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    Usable?????

    http://www.deadyeti.com/into3dfa/movie_899.html


    I've broken it up into seperate images, once it turn's there's a new image(should help with collision detection). The first layer is copied and pasted then mirrored to form the remaining map area. All of the images in following layers are renamed to reflect the layer they are in(i.e. layer_2=image_2).



    -Jason

    [Edited by zoranvedek on 05-22-2002 at 01:13 AM]

  6. #6
    Senior Member zoranvedek's Avatar
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    ...........added a pac/insane man, keyboard controls aren't always updating but you'll get the idea:

    http://www.deadyeti.com/into3dfa/insaneman.html

    Let me know if&what I need to change.

    -Jason

  7. #7
    Senior Member kusco's Avatar
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    awesome!

    Jason,

    This is a very good start! You've been very busy I see. The animated insaneman is fantastic!

    I have a couple of suggestions.
    [list=1][*] The little guy may need to be a bit big bigger.[*] Possibly have fewer twists and turns in the maze. ie. if we make it bigger then we won't need as many (eventually) dots to eat and makes the game easier.[*] (ok, more than a couple) to make things a lot easier for programming think of the playfield as made up of squares or characters or a grid. eg. the insaneman will fill up one square, a dot - one square, ghost and maze walls a square each too.
    This gives us defined barriers and also allows us to not have to worry about checking too intensely about changing direction and without running into a wall.
    Also, when we move insaneman in a direction we animate it so that it animates precisely into the next square. This allows us to very easily define an animation sequence because we'll know the size of each square and therefore how many frames we need.[*] Using the grid method also means we can use an array in javascript which would be used to keep track of insaneman, the ghosts, the dots, maze and cherries etc. With this method we can then program it so that the maze can change randomly just by using predefined maze tiles/shapes and provide a better method for collision detection.[*] For the maze, using tiles/shapes means only having to have a small number of predefined shapes. Then from this we can clone, rotate and position them on the playfield to create unlimited possibilities.[/list=1]
    Is it obvious that I'm getting too excited
    Deep breath, calming sounds....good.

    Just some ideas for us to think about. What are your thoughts?

    I'm happy also to not worry too much about Javascripting it as I could be over complicating things.

    Cheers,
    Ed

  8. #8
    KoolMoves Moderator blanius's Avatar
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    Using the grid method also means we can use an array in javascript which would be used to keep track of insaneman, the ghosts, the dots, maze and cherries etc. With this method we can then program it so that the maze can change randomly just by using predefined maze tiles/shapes and provide a better method for collision detection.

    For the maze, using tiles/shapes means only having to have a small number of predefined shapes. Then from this we can clone, rotate and position them on the playfield to create unlimited possibilities.
    This is how I was picturing it as well. We'd need to decide on a tile size.

    We probably won't be able to use true collision detection for the maze itself as you don't want thme to actually touch ever, I'm inclined to think of the play area as an Array, this way you can do a look ahead to see what is in the direction you want to go and just not move if there is wall. Not sure how well we can update screen, perhaps the moving elements are actually "on top" of the displayed array of a maze. Might have to experiment a little to see what works.




  9. #9
    Senior Member zoranvedek's Avatar
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    Re: awesome!

    Originally posted by kusco
    Jason,

    This is a very good start! You've been very busy I see. The animated insaneman is fantastic!

    I have a couple of suggestions.
    [list=1][*] The little guy may need to be a bit big bigger.[*] Possibly have fewer twists and turns in the maze. ie. if we make it bigger then we won't need as many (eventually) dots to eat and makes the game easier.[*] (ok, more than a couple) to make things a lot easier for programming think of the playfield as made up of squares or characters or a grid. eg. the insaneman will fill up one square, a dot - one square, ghost and maze walls a square each too.
    This gives us defined barriers and also allows us to not have to worry about checking too intensely about changing direction and without running into a wall.
    Also, when we move insaneman in a direction we animate it so that it animates precisely into the next square. This allows us to very easily define an animation sequence because we'll know the size of each square and therefore how many frames we need.[*] Using the grid method also means we can use an array in javascript which would be used to keep track of insaneman, the ghosts, the dots, maze and cherries etc. With this method we can then program it so that the maze can change randomly just by using predefined maze tiles/shapes and provide a better method for collision detection.[*] For the maze, using tiles/shapes means only having to have a small number of predefined shapes. Then from this we can clone, rotate and position them on the playfield to create unlimited possibilities.[/list=1]
    Is it obvious that I'm getting too excited
    Deep breath, calming sounds....good.

    Just some ideas for us to think about. What are your thoughts?

    I'm happy also to not worry too much about Javascripting it as I could be over complicating things.

    Cheers,
    Ed
    Ok, if I am following you correctly, then I am making this far more difficult than I need to. I am currently using a 5x5 grid with the insaneman being 3 squares(15x15) the walls 1 square(5x5) and the open spaces 4(20x20), if you are planning on cloning the maze then, if I am correct, all you will need are 2 grid block's containing graphics for all the wall's(one open at both end's , and one capped???), by all means correct me if I am wrong. I started a small maze for my boys once(using action script)and it was serious pain in the(well you get the idea), I ended up with a ton of code to check the walls height/width/position a well as for the ball that moved throuh the maze(I finally gave up in frustration). What you are describing sounds ALOT simpler.

    As for the little guy being bigger, I already had that thought, he was, to say the least, a little hard to animate being that small. Another thought I had was basing him off the insanetools logo/mascot (maybe turning into insaneman after eating a power pill ).

    Let me know a grid size and any other specifications, and I'll get to making changes this afternoon.

    -Jason

  10. #10
    Senior Member zoranvedek's Avatar
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    Bret,
    Can we set up a folder specifically for this project? If you've already done so, then just point me in that direction.

    -Jason

  11. #11
    KoolMoves Moderator blanius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by zoranvedek
    Bret,
    Can we set up a folder specifically for this project? If you've already done so, then just point me in that direction.

    -Jason
    Ed has access now as well, I haven't made a folder yet but we certainly can. You go ahead and do it.

  12. #12
    Senior Member kusco's Avatar
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    Not sure how well we can update screen, perhaps the moving elements are actually "on top" of the displayed array of a maze. Might have to experiment a little to see what works.
    I've been thinking about this problem and it turns out to be no problem at all. Using rotation and scale we can very easily set a direction. We can put insaneman into motion using acceleration and in conjunction with some javascript we can tell exactly where he is at anytime. eg. if we move him left a square then we can quickly calculate where he should end up, set him in motion and use javascript to stop him when he reaches the desired location.

    Since we'll be dealing with cloned objects we only need to remember to clone the characters (ghosts and our hero) last. This way they'll always appear to be on top of the dots, cherries etc. Also, as we're dealing with a grid/array (same difference ) none of the characters need ever come in contact with a maze wall.

    I haven't lost anyone yet have I? Stop me if I have.

    We'd need to decide on a tile size.
    A tile size of 16x16 works very well. Most of the original games consoles like Nintendo used this system. In fact Gameboy use this same method today.

    A 16x16 tile used in a 480x360 screen will give us a total of 30x22 tiles to use. This is more than enough for InsaneMan. It also alows us to create a fairly detailed animated character/s and maze tiles.

    [QUOTE]if you are planning on cloning the maze then, if I am correct, all you will need are 2 grid block's containing graphics for all the wall's(one open at both end's , and one capped???), by all means correct me if I am wrong./QUOTE]
    Quite correct but we'll also need a corner piece.

    As for the little guy being bigger, I already had that thought, he was, to say the least, a little hard to animate being that small. Another thought I had was basing him off the insanetools logo/mascot (maybe turning into insaneman after eating a power pill ).
    I should think no more than about 8 animated frames per second for each character too. The frames would be loaded into an array. Using this we can synchronise the movements of all the characters with a single javascript routine running at only 8 times per second and ALL of the characters would be animated at the same time. Nice and simple.
    I really like the idea of turning our hero into Stanly (I think that's the name) when he eats a power pill.

    The more I think about this project the easier it's getting and the clearer it becomes. Man, I wish I had 3DFA when I was learning to program then this stuff would have seemed like a breeze!

    I'll stop here and let the ink dry before going on.

    Cheers,
    Ed

  13. #13
    Senior Member zoranvedek's Avatar
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    ...let me know if this is more what you had in mind:

    http://www.deadyeti.com/insaneman/squares.html

    -Jason



  14. #14
    Senior Member kusco's Avatar
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    Perfect!

    Jason,

    These are great!

    If we use the 16x16 tile size then we'll need to ensure that the characters (InsaneMan, Ghosts etc.) don't take up the full size otherwise they'll look like they're cramped in against the sides of the walls. I'm thinking that these would utilise a 14x14 tile size but kept inside the 16x16. ie. keep a border around the shapes of 1 pixel width to give us that gap.

    Who else is going to participate in this project and what aspect would you like to work on?

    I wouldn't mind doing some javascript coding. There's a bit here to do like moving the characters, drawing the dots, setting up the screen, collision detection, power-pill routines, etc. I'm just wondering if it would help everyone if I put together a 'Programming Specification' to outline the requirements (as I see them) and how the different routines would interact. This way the programming can be broken up into managable pieces and allows more than one person to get involved with the programming. What does everyone think?

    Cheers,
    Ed



  15. #15
    Senior Member zoranvedek's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect!

    Originally posted by kusco
    Jason,



    Who else is going to participate in this project and what aspect would you like to work on?



    I can only answer for myself............

    I assume I'll be doing the graphics mainly, but have absolutely no objections to anyone elses input. As far as JavaScripting goes, I'm way behind everyone else(best if I step aside and try to learn as much as I can without being in the way). I have a good grasp on actionscripting though, as long as it's all straight forward at least.

    Like you, I've been waiting for someone else to chime in with some ideas. I've got a good feeling about this, and am getting anxious to see where it will all head to.

    Anyway, it's been a long day, gonna drink some coffee unwind and see what I can come up with for our insaneman.

    One quick question first though......

    Would it be better to use seperate frame animations(delayed at 0.125), or a single choose view containing all of the animations? Whichever everyone thinks is best is fine with me(I'm easy to get along with).


    -Jason



  16. #16
    KoolMoves Moderator blanius's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Perfect!

    I'm kinda of a concept man myself... Know a little about everything.

    I woke up this morning thinking of choosers.


    I think things like the flashman should be a chooser element with five views Up,Down,Left,Right,Still.

    I hope we can get more than just the three of us but if not thats ok with me.

    I plan on doing experiments to try some ideas.....

    What if the entire board was one cloned array of choosers that had views of Wall,Open,Pill,PowerUp then we set them based on a map array.

    [1 1 1 1 1 1 2]
    [1 3 2 2 2 2 1]
    [1 2 1 1 1 2 1]
    [1 2 2 2 2 3 1]
    [1 1 1 1 1 1 1]

    etc.....

  17. #17
    Senior Member kusco's Avatar
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    I'm not up to speed with choosers. Can't say I've ever used them.

    If they can be accessed from within a javascript routine with access to their properties then cool. We'll need to be able to do this if we're going to use an array.

    What if the entire board was one cloned array of choosers that had views of Wall,Open,Pill,PowerUp then we set them based on a map array.
    Bret, I think I understand a little about this concept. So we use Choosers to contain the animations for each character, power pill etc.?? And then we clone them to where we want them on the board? If this is what you mean then it sounds great and would mean less javascripting as well (I fairly certain - I think ). Also, each chooser would be the size of a tile???

    What areas of the game do you want to work on Bret? I'm trying to avoid doubling up on work efforts where-ever possible.

    Cheers,
    Ed

  18. #18
    Senior Member zoranvedek's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Perfect!

    Originally posted by blanius




    What if the entire board was one cloned array of choosers that had views of Wall,Open,Pill,PowerUp then we set them based on a map array.

    [1 1 1 1 1 1 2]
    [1 3 2 2 2 2 1]
    [1 2 1 1 1 2 1]
    [1 2 2 2 2 3 1]
    [1 1 1 1 1 1 1]

    etc.....
    I like that idea, and I'm not all familiar with using arrays. It could come in handy on higher levels as well, for different maze patterns.

    -Jason

  19. #19
    Senior Member zoranvedek's Avatar
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    rest right left up & down:

    http://www.deadyeti.com/insaneman/motion_ani.html


    Let me know what you think, 14 pixels is not alot of space to work in .

    -Jason

  20. #20
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    Smile Good IDEAAA!!!

    Hey Guys!!
    This it is a great idea CONGRATULATIONS!!!
    They do not forget of my,I'm a bit removed for motives of my work, But my heart is here with 3DFA. I can help with some animations.
    Only they say in that them I can help. I've available the nights and the weekends.

    Joseph!

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