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Thread: STAR WARS AM I ALONE.

  1. #21
    Phantom Flasher... Markp.com's Avatar
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    Originally posted by aevium
    i personally think star wars is crap regardless of how obsessed its fans are. it is basically a ripoff of isaac asimov's theories and lingo (hyperspace, blasters) and george's latest creations are even worse. put bluntly, it is only good because of its royal status. the matrix, or for that matter ANY other film, rivals this sextet of episodes. we need to move on to a new generation of futuristica. star wars is going to celebrate its 25th birthday this year...i think that speaks for itself.


    Yup! I have to agree with you here... I've seen all the starwars films and they are quite honestly crap. The directing in them is poor, the editing worse; using foul old, but tried and tested formula (ie the clock swipe from one scene to the next, a few set back points, but then good triumphing over evil).

    Lucarse just makes his films to appeal to the lowest common denominator, thus gaining a large mainstream audience.

    Don't get me wrong here, the first few were ok, interesting, even entertaining, if a little long winded.

    They just aren't as 'life changing' as so many nerds make out. I guess you REALLY have to be into it, but there are better space/cowboy films out there.

    Enough waffeling... I smell nerds near by...

  2. #22
    no noise means no bees xup878's Avatar
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    the best thing about the originals were the crappyness of it all.... the new one are too high tech, thats whats annoying...

  3. #23
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    I've seen most of the Star Wars movies but only when they show them on TV. I have no plans to buy any of the movies on DVD/VHS or see Episode 2 at the movies.

  4. #24
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    i have the trilogy and episode 1. but um...i don't know what you guys see in them. lame hairdos, lamer dialogue ("i have a bad feeling about this"), and the plot GETS LAMER WITH AGE! JAR JAR BINKS!!! *fires a rocket at Jar Jar Binks*

    lucas is trippin'. he's had his 15 minutes of fame. in a recent issue of WIRED, top 20 sci-fi movies were presented. blade runner ranked 1st. the matrix ranked 3rd. star wars (original) ranked 10th.

    personally, i think the matrix has a higher "obsession" factor than star wars. it has a thicker crust, memorable scenes, and a very stylish overall look. sure, c3po was a hoot. did he play an IMPORTANT ROLE? robots? give the cyborgs a rest. there needs to be someone as smart as to NOT give in to the temptation of sprinkling his sci-fi work with robots.

    it is no wonder the matrix is often compared to star wars. i like them both. i just do not understand why there is such a tremendous fame around it. it is pretty average.

  5. #25
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    Originally posted by Aria
    Originally posted by aevium
    the matrix, or for that matter ANY other film, rivals this sextet of episodes. we need to move on to a new generation of futuristica. star wars is going to celebrate its 25th birthday this year...i think that speaks for itself.
    ok - im not exactly part of the generation that grew up watching the trilogy but i have a decent knowledge when it comes to sci-fi film history and when I hear ppl saying the Matrix is all that, i just cringe !

    Im my view the Matrix in not that great film. It is a good film, but not the best in the genre which is highly competitive and difficult to break in, still the pretty aggressive advertising campaign that followed its release was good enough to push it into the blockbuster territory.

    Some ppl keep going on about the film having an innovative plot. I dont agree .The only people , IMHO that think the plot is innovative are those who haavet read science fiction, or Baudrillard for that matter, still you don't have to go through every s-f , postmodernist book out there to find and notice the similaritiesfor yourself. The notion of "reality" turning out to be nothing more than a VR simulation was explored in Total Recall, and Tad Williams' Otherland series staked a sizeable claim in this area long However, that is not to say that the plot is a rip-off, any more than anybody who has ever written a fantasy tale is ripping off Tolkien. It is simply that the ideas are perhaps not quite as fresh , personally I found the entire plot a mish mash of Baudrillard theories and cyberpunk fiction.

    Now when it comes to the effects of this film - its undeniably true that they are great indeed, but I am given cause to wonder if perhaps they haven't overstepped the mark a little. The key to enabling the viewer to believe in the events unfolding on the screen is to allow a certain measure of reality to seep between the cracks.---> See other popular SF films - Films such as Terminator Aliens and Starship Troopers were also set in "alien" environments, presented us with a not so distant dystopia and yet those films enabled us to suspend our disbelief because environments they were set in were still relatively recognisable, and some breathing space was permitted between the periodic assaults on the senses.

    The Matrix guys , on the other hand, seemed more intent on not allowing a second of screen time to go by without assaulting the viewer with some sort of cool effect, and in the end it all becomes a little disorientating, and eventually causes the viewer to marvel at the effects at the expense of suspending their disbelief (when everything is unreal, nothing can be real, if that makes sense). Again another direct ref to Baudrillard which by that times gets bit too much
    When it comes to acting - I rest my case - Keanu plays Keanu and thats all there is

    The rest of the cast was great but my gawd theres so mych better SF out there B.M (before the Matrix) and after it that i hardly see that film as a ref point

    a




    I thought the matrix was cool. If you just watched it for the enjoyment of watching a movie, I imagine you would like it a lot more than if you took it apart and picked out little details about it that you didnt alike.

  6. #26
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    Originally posted by FlashRulez
    Originally posted by Aria
    Originally posted by aevium
    the matrix, or for that matter ANY other film, rivals this sextet of episodes. we need to move on to a new generation of futuristica. star wars is going to celebrate its 25th birthday this year...i think that speaks for itself.
    ok - im not exactly part of the generation that grew up watching the trilogy but i have a decent knowledge when it comes to sci-fi film history and when I hear ppl saying the Matrix is all that, i just cringe !

    Im my view the Matrix in not that great film. It is a good film, but not the best in the genre which is highly competitive and difficult to break in, still the pretty aggressive advertising campaign that followed its release was good enough to push it into the blockbuster territory.

    Some ppl keep going on about the film having an innovative plot. I dont agree .The only people , IMHO that think the plot is innovative are those who haavet read science fiction, or Baudrillard for that matter, still you don't have to go through every s-f , postmodernist book out there to find and notice the similaritiesfor yourself. The notion of "reality" turning out to be nothing more than a VR simulation was explored in Total Recall, and Tad Williams' Otherland series staked a sizeable claim in this area long However, that is not to say that the plot is a rip-off, any more than anybody who has ever written a fantasy tale is ripping off Tolkien. It is simply that the ideas are perhaps not quite as fresh , personally I found the entire plot a mish mash of Baudrillard theories and cyberpunk fiction.

    Now when it comes to the effects of this film - its undeniably true that they are great indeed, but I am given cause to wonder if perhaps they haven't overstepped the mark a little. The key to enabling the viewer to believe in the events unfolding on the screen is to allow a certain measure of reality to seep between the cracks.---> See other popular SF films - Films such as Terminator Aliens and Starship Troopers were also set in "alien" environments, presented us with a not so distant dystopia and yet those films enabled us to suspend our disbelief because environments they were set in were still relatively recognisable, and some breathing space was permitted between the periodic assaults on the senses.

    The Matrix guys , on the other hand, seemed more intent on not allowing a second of screen time to go by without assaulting the viewer with some sort of cool effect, and in the end it all becomes a little disorientating, and eventually causes the viewer to marvel at the effects at the expense of suspending their disbelief (when everything is unreal, nothing can be real, if that makes sense). Again another direct ref to Baudrillard which by that times gets bit too much
    When it comes to acting - I rest my case - Keanu plays Keanu and thats all there is

    The rest of the cast was great but my gawd theres so mych better SF out there B.M (before the Matrix) and after it that i hardly see that film as a ref point

    a




    I thought the matrix was cool. If you just watched it for the enjoyment of watching a movie, I imagine you would like it a lot more than if you took it apart and picked out little details about it that you didnt alike.
    the authors themselves acknowledged the many rips they've made. lewis carrol, "i have no mouth and i must scream", marshall luhan...a helluva lot. that is why it is a good movie. it is many things rolled into one rather than a focal point (star wars)...





    i'm writing a sci-fi novel, i swear....

  7. #27
    no noise means no bees xup878's Avatar
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    i prefered Keanu in Bill n Ted
    whatever happened to Alex Winter?

  8. #28
    Say Hello to my little friend. pimpjacksmack's Avatar
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    Jus out of curiousity... just how old are the people replying in these forums?

    this question has a purpose

  9. #29
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    [small]13[small]

  10. #30
    FK Catwoman Aria's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FlashRulez

    I thought the matrix was cool. If you just watched it for the enjoyment of watching a movie, I imagine you would like it a lot more than if you took it apart and picked out little details about it that you didnt alike.
    dont get me wrong -i did enjoy the Matrix but I wouldnt call it an original SF movie as such when it comes to plot, narrative and as far as the special effects are concerned, yeah they were great but even now couple years later are already dated cos since then we've seen better. The Matrix was a collage of more than one genre and borrowed from many classics as such, and though it was enjoyable at the time, now it hardly sticks anymore
    Star Wars the original trilogy was and still is a ref point in this genre cos it was unique and ahead of its time, of course when you look at it now you think so what - these chasing & fighting scenes are nothing special but at the time they were and inspired many film makers and designers.

    If you want to look stylish and top notch art direction, look no further but Spielberg's AI (as for recent SF) or Gattaca or Blade Runner for that matter which is timeless and a true classic

    I can still watch Blade Runner even though its been over 10 yrs since its release, i cant say the same for the Matrix however

    a

  11. #31
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    Originally posted by xup878
    i prefered Keanu in Bill n Ted
    whatever happened to Alex Winter?
    he went on to become a b movie horror star the fickle finger of fate handing Keanu such a good life after Bill and Ted! Bogus mang!

  12. #32
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    i watched the matrix 19 times this year. it's still pretty timeless. like a ming+fs song.

  13. #33
    Say Hello to my little friend. pimpjacksmack's Avatar
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    Thanks Aria. My point is, the Matrix is a movie for a NEW generation. Your reference point for comparison is more refined than those in the days of the original trilogy. I loved the Matrix. It was awesome on so many levels. However, only because of gigantic advancements in technology, could this movie be made. Make this movie in 1977 and it FLOPS, because the idea can't be accomplished with the technology available. Lucas created a new universe with semi-complex character development, twenty years before his time WITHOUT the crutch of technology.

  14. #34
    Say Hello to my little friend. pimpjacksmack's Avatar
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    and 3 years is a little too early to call the Matrix timeless. I have hangnails older than that....

  15. #35
    Say Hello to my little friend. pimpjacksmack's Avatar
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    PS... did you know?

    Carrie-Anne Moss (Trinity) played Liz Teel in the TV series "Matrix" (1993).

  16. #36
    Phantom Flasher... Markp.com's Avatar
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    Originally posted by xup878
    i prefered Keanu in Bill n Ted
    whatever happened to Alex Winter?
    He's a director now... Search http://www.imdb.com

  17. #37
    Phantom Flasher... Markp.com's Avatar
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  18. #38
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    Originally posted by jamble7000
    Bogus mang!
    Jamble and Gerbick's Excellent Adventure (??)


  19. #39
    FK Catwoman Aria's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pimpjacksmack
    Thanks Aria. My point is, the Matrix is a movie for a NEW generation. Your reference point for comparison is more refined than those in the days of the original trilogy. I loved the Matrix. It was awesome on so many levels. However, only because of gigantic advancements in technology, could this movie be made. Make this movie in 1977 and it FLOPS, because the idea can't be accomplished with the technology available. Lucas created a new universe with semi-complex character development, twenty years before his time WITHOUT the crutch of technology.
    i agree - Films like the Matrix are movies for the NEW generation. Take the Dr Who fans , if i can bring that up as an example, they're a very dedicated bunch who have collected all the episodes and are still emailing the BBC asking for re-runs, discussing plots and storylines , still collecting books and other memorabilia (I know cos i used to moderate the Cult site) . I was never impressed with the effects ,the spaceships or the costumes or the Aliens for that matter and felt that Dr Who was the SF of the generation before mine.

    Lucas as you rightly pointed out was able to create a new universe, a mythology using the technology available at the time and the results were pretty amazing. The fact that he drew influences from Kurosawa and japanese cinema was an added bonus to me and i suspect others as Im a big Kurosawa fan myself. Lucas stuck throughout with this style if you like which created a great following and an experience.

    The problem or i should say my problem with The Matrix is that the narrative borrowed a bit of everything (from popular cyberpunk fiction for instance) creating a mish mash of a narrative which after a few viewings you just find yourself picking up refs from all over the place and which i find confusing and frankly disatisfying as this is an indication that the writers didnt do their research but focused on the action scenes more instead, rather than getting their facts right.
    For someone who has grown up reading cyberpunk fiction, comics, and studied the genre, i found the rough refs to Baudrillard in particular (ie Keanu walking around with the Simulation & Simulacra book)not only inappropriate and redundant but also inaccurate considering when the movie was set and what it was actually about.

    Add to that an actor like Keanu who has as much depth as <censored> and there you have it !

    I wish he had stayed with Bill & Teds "Most Excellent" Adventures and only used the word dude rather than trying to quote Baudrillard or Foucault for that matter <cringe>


    a

  20. #40
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    I think The Matrix is the Ghost Busters of 2000.


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