March Madness :: Round 1 Loser :: Critiques Wanted

[DaVulf]

Hey everyone, I was wondering if I could get some critiques on this image I had made as my contribution to March Madness.



MM Stock Girl Stock Shadow Stock

I really thought this image was a contender, but unfortunately it wasn't popular enough. I spent about 15 hours on the image, had over 100 layers, used more than 10 stock images, and put alot of love into it.

What do you guys think?

<personal note>
I personally liked the girl herself, the amount of work that went into creating her was mind-boggling. If you look at the stock, the only thing that I kept was her head, and the position. I brushed out the back, took arms off another stock, and added scars to her back where the wings connect.
</personal note>

[Black_phoenix]

Hi looks good, but I think the wings let it down, they seem to have almost an outline to them, and they dont seem to attatch to the body in a very realistic manner. Also looking again at it the shadow would be distorted as it fell against the steps.

Its still a nice image

bp

[DaVulf]

Hi looks good, but I think the wings let it down, they seem to have almost an outline to them, and they dont seem to attatch to the body in a very realistic manner. Also looking again at it the shadow would be distorted as it fell against the steps.

Thanks for the crits Phoenix, I'm guessing you voted for Mark .

I see what you mean about the wings, they were the toughest part. It's so hard to find good wings from 'behind' the swan (I used swan wings). Basically, I had to take head-on wings and make them from behind. As far as the shadow is concerned, I had it being distorted, but it looked like crap so I put it back to normal. I suppose it may have been more correct the other way, but I just didn't feel right doing it.

I also agree that they might not connect the right way, this was another tricky part. I've actually drawn in some scars, and then overlayed it with a scar stock in order to make it more believable, but I suppose I didn't pull it off.

I will try to take more care with my masks and my shadows the next time I make an image. Thanks a bunch Phoenix .

[Black_phoenix]

I bought a book on 3D years ago, and one of the first things it taught was that anyone can make a shape and texture it, but the art is to have attention to detail, that is what makes it look real.

I'll dig the book out, and quote it exactly, when I get a spare minute.

but you get the gist. We all know by experience how things look, if something is wrong visually we get a feeling (I do at least) the shadow on the stairs threw me.

i've quickly made a very rough idea (attatched) of how I imagined it to look.

PS I did n't vote for Rush but don't tell him

bp

[gerbick]

I actually voted for you...

However, a few things I noticed. One... the image is a bit too soft-focus. It made it borderline blurry to me.

Second, there's a few places where the layer masks look a bit "lazy" - hair over her shoulder for instance - and the fringe pixels on the arms.

There should have been a bit more distortion on the shadow... a shadow over steps follows the steps, not fall straight down as such.

The lighting... there's a few places where your woman and the steps are opposite... they're using different light sources and you can tell.

The border could have been avoided altogether. In fact, I think it pulls focus away from the image, and my eyes go out to it, as opposed to going inward from it. That's counter-intuitive of layout/design. Eyes should be drawn into your focal point, I'm not.

Text, there's nothing wrong with the font, I have a problem with the placement. It could have been worked into the scene a bit better.

Quickly summed up, it's a picture where I can dissect the parts that make up the whole sum... and if it's a composition, you don't want me to be able to do that too easily. It's nigh-impossible to hide all of your images/source files; but you should pick stock that uses the same angle of light source and also if you're going to cast shadows/produce highlights, make sure they apply to all in a scene.

To that effect, you didn't do that. Casting a shadow into the brightest part of an image - it looks like an overhead omni light on the first descending set of stairs - you'd not be able to cast a strong shadow as such.

But you did. Look above for what else the shadow should have done.

Those are my very quick, personal critiques. Feel free to ignore them.

[DaVulf]

I actually voted for you...

Thanks mang.

However, a few things I noticed. One... the image is a bit too soft-focus. It made it borderline blurry to me.

I know exactly what you mean, I have a 'soft light' layer on every element. I think I went a little crazy on that one. I will definately have to cut back.

Second, there's a few places where the layer masks look a bit "lazy" - hair over her shoulder for instance - and the fringe pixels on the arms.

Again, I think you hit the nail on the head. While making the image this was far from my first try,and I think I got tired of masking things. I will have to work on using brushed to mask instead of the polygonal select tool .

There should have been a bit more distortion on the shadow... a shadow over steps follows the steps, not fall straight down as such.

Yea, I see what you're saying. I think what messed me up was I was chopping the image, moving it over a few pixels, chopping, moving, and eventually the shadow just skewed too far the the side and was no longer centered. I couldn't figure out how to do it properly, so I just left it.

The lighting... there's a few places where your woman and the steps are opposite... they're using different light sources and you can tell.

Can't argue there, I didn't even think of lighting...

The border could have been avoided altogether. In fact, I think it pulls focus away from the image, and my eyes go out to it, as opposed to going inward from it. That's counter-intuitive of layout/design. Eyes should be drawn into your focal point, I'm not.

I can see what you mean when I look at the image. I thought it would add that 'coming out of canvas' look, but I don't think I quite achieved that. I suppose this sort of border worked for me in another image, and I figured it would work here as well. Bad miscalculation.

Text, there's nothing wrong with the font, I have a problem with the placement. It could have been worked into the scene a bit better.

I agree. Additionally, things I've read more recently seem to suggest that we don't always need text on images (especially if we don't have ages of experience with it either....

Quickly summed up, it's a picture where I can dissect the parts that make up the whole sum... and if it's a composition, you don't want me to be able to do that too easily. It's nigh-impossible to hide all of your images/source files; but you should pick stock that uses the same angle of light source and also if you're going to cast shadows/produce highlights, make sure they apply to all in a scene.

Yea, stock choices are definately key. Sometimes I just find it hard to find one that goes with my thought. I need to get out of that mindset. I read an article by a fantastic artist over at Worth, and he was saying that you have a general idea, but design with the stocks in mind. I suppose he's right, as at least that way you get stocks that work properly.

To that effect, you didn't do that. Casting a shadow into the brightest part of an image - it looks like an overhead omni light on the first descending set of stairs - you'd not be able to cast a strong shadow as such.

Yea, I see what you mean now about the light from above. My 'goal' was that it was god with his arms outstretched standing at the top of the stairs (with heavens light behind him), ready to welcome back his dissident angel.

But you did. Look above for what else the shadow should have done.

Those are my very quick, personal critiques. Feel free to ignore them.

As always Gerbs, excellent critiques which will provide a great benefit in my next images. Really appreciate the time you took to write this out mang.

i've quickly made a very rough idea (attatched) of how I imagined it to look.

I see what you're saying. That's pretty much how I had it laid out, but it was just causing too much distortion and I couldn't recognize what the shadow was of. Thanks for taking the time to mock that up for me, I will use it the next time I'm making shadows hit objects .

[RUSHVision]

...I'm guessing you voted for Mark .

PS I did n't vote for Rush but don't tell him

Hahahahahaha! Lol...That's exactly why I don't mind being known as some form of "Rush" instead of Mark, which as BP knows, is my first name. Keeps people from confusing me with markp. Heheh...and don't worry, BP...no hard feelings.

DaVulf ~
You got my vote in round one. I've got some more feedback for ya, though. Just need a little time to put it together.

[DaVulf]

DaVulf ~
You got my vote in round one. I've got some more feedback for ya, though. Just need a little time to put it together.

No problem my man. Thanks for the vote

[Black_phoenix]

Heheh...and don't worry, BP...no hard feelings.

to be honest I did n't know it was on, so I did n't vote for anyone, been really busy with my latest pet project, I check the D n G but thats about all. Saw a mention on nat's footer but no link

Less work more play

bp

[RUSHVision]

Bp, you dog...make sure you keep an eye out for round 3, then! We need all the voters we can get and these guys are really pouring it on for this one. Lots of great eye candy while you sit back and cast your votes. Spread the word, man!

DaVulf...some quick questions for ya...

I have some thoughts, but rather than asking if you were going for this or shooting for that, I'll just ask...did you have a concept behind this image? I know you've got the 'stairway to heaven' thing goin' on, but was there a reason behind putting the shadow on the stairs? What does that represent or who is that a shadow of?

Is there any additional symolism attached to the cross on her back besides a basic connection with the concept of heaven in general?

And the girl...was it your intention for her to be a fallen angel or an ascended human on the way to heaven?

[DaVulf]

Hey Rush, thanks for the questions. This is sort of what I had in mind:

Parent yells at child, child runs away and sits on stairs (I know I used to do that when I was younger) and is sulky.

The parallel is that the Angel ran out of heaven, and sat on the stairway. The cross tattoo just further shows that she's heavenly (and it took up space on the back that I drew, otherwise it looked too bland). The shadow is god (the parent) who is at the top of the stairs with open arms ready to welcome her back.

I suppose the text might not have gone exactly with what I was thinking, but that is what I thought the stairway was.

All in all, I found that a tough stock to work with, I tried putting the stairs on every side, but none of them looked possible, I figured it would be cheap to just use an unrecognizable element of the stock, since I figured that was part of the challenge.

Hope that helps ya Rush .

[RUSHVision]

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks, man.

I wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten about this, I've just kind of gotten out hand with the amount of 'related' info I wanted to post. So it's comin', just need a little more time.

[DaVulf]

Not a problem Rush, I can wait because I know it will be great. Hmm... That rhymed.

I'm trying to work on another problem dealing more with the Flash domain. On a tangent, do you know how to make a mask feathered? Like if I set a gradient that goes from 100% to 0% opacity, the mask still masks where the opacity is set to 0%, when I don't think it should.

[RUSHVision]

Heheh...I don't know about great, I just got carried away with the amount of stuff I wanted to post and I decided to make a couple of visual aids. A fair amount of it doesn't even have to do with this image specifically. It might come in handy for future images, though.

If you are talking about a mask in Flash, then no...as of the version I am using, which is MX...masks don't allow for any kind of transparency. The whole shape is basically on or off.

[DaVulf]

That's such a drag. You'd think that would be a worthwhile feature. Oh well, I think I've come up with another solution anyways.

I appreciate the answer.

[JWin]

yeh, I wanted to kung fu flash when I drew a gradient for a mask and they whole thing dissappeared.

Anyway, I don't know if this was said but the shadow needs to...uh, cascade?...down the steps.

I did like this image though, good use of the stock, its just the darn details that can kill ya. I'm really quite lazy I like to see the big picture and then get bored doing the little stuff.

Anyway, keep this on the down low but I've got something cooking in the line of "collaborative learning" for photoshop as soon as some people get their butts in gear. We will all benefit from this I think.

except RUSH

[RUSHVision]

except RUSH

Ohhohohohoho...there's plenty left for me to learn, trust me. I'm just offering up my perception of things. I've gotten a ton of information off the internet personally, so I try to give a little back, that's all.

appreciate the sentiment, though!

[DaVulf]

Sounds like a fun deal JWin.

I'm working lazily on an image right now using the round 3 stocks. I'm trying to go with an 'attention to detail' <nerd> like DVgarage with Alex Lindsay.. </nerd> image.

[DaVulf]

Alright, I've taken your critques, and I've made a new image. What do you guys think?



I think this is one of my best, if not the best I've made.

I used this MM stock.

[JWin]

great attention to detail on the walkway but one thing, the sky says its night and the shadow says its 2 pm