The new Marijuana Debate.

[flipshark]

The last marijuana debate in my opinion seemed to be quite intriguing and I saw no reason for the thread to be closed. (counting only posts before 8pm EST i didn't read any after that)

This thread can hopefully host a similar debate however I would like to set up a few ground rules so the thread can stay open.

1) When stating your position (pro mj, against mj, nuetral vs mj, or other,) "MJ" being marijuana do so in a professional manner.

2) Keep in mind everyone is entitled to their personal opinions/beliefs. If you disagree, please state what you feel is a valid reason for disagreeing and please do not resort to personal attacks.

3) Try and keep unreliable sources and links to pro-pot pages out of the posts impressionable young minds may be reading the thread

4) To the mods, please as long as this thread doesn't get too out of hand, please try not to delete it.. please just close it instead if at all possible i like seeing the responses of others.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

can we throw an amendment on there.

any posts concerning the harmfull effects of mj must have conclusive proof from a medical association.

will this thread merely deal with mj itself, or with the effects of the prosecution of the use of mj?

[flipshark]

My position:

I believe that the legalization and decriminalization of marijuana should not take place.

Marijuana is a drug which I feel has not been reasearched signifigantly enough to prove or disprove any benefits or complications which may be seen as a result of long term use.

The use of Marijuana to ease the suffering of people diagnosed with cancer and other similiar diseases should be closly regulated.

We will not allow the possession or use of a drug such as ritalin by someone no suffering from ADD, therefore I beleive that MJ should not be available freely to those seeking its use for non-medicinal or recreational purposes.

[flipshark]

Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar
can we throw an amendment on there.

any posts concerning the harmfull effects of mj must have conclusive proof from a medical association.

will this thread merely deal with mj itself, or with the effects of the prosecution of the use of mj?

I am willing to accept these terms.
Prosecution etc dealing with marijuana are topics which may also be freely debated/discussed in this thread.

[BrainTea]

Okay, short and simple.

I think it should be legal to grow, for your own possession, perhaps with limitations on amounts.

As with alcohol, resale could be illegal, though that's
in accordance with state laws for taxing/resale,
and a topic for an extended subject.

[killabry]

Here are effects of marijuana that we should establish, any more can be added :

Onset 0-10 minutes
Coming Up 5-10 minutes
Plateau 15-30 minutes
Coming Down 45-60 minutes
After Effects 30-60 minutes




The effects of smoking Cannabis are usually lighter than those of many other recreational psychoactive substances. People are generally capable of carrying out normal actions and activities while high.

POSITIVE

mood lift
relaxation, stress reduction
creative, philosophical or deep thinking ... ideas flow more easily
increased appreciation of music. More aware of, deeper connection to music.
increased awareness of senses. (eating, drinking, smell)
change in experience of muscle fatigue. Pleasant body feel. Increase in body/mind connection.
pain relief (headaches, cramps)
reduced nausea (used medically for this)

NEUTRAL

general change in consciousness (as with many psychoactives)
increased appetite, snacky-ness
slowness (slow driving, talking)
tiredness
blood shot eyes (more common with certain varieties of cannabis and inexperienced users)
mouth dryness
interrupts linear memory. Difficulty following a train of thought.
cheek, jaw, facial tension (less commonly reported)

NEGATIVE

nausea
coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of frequent use
racing heart, agitation,tenseness
mild to severe anxiety
panic attacks at very high doses (usually oral) or in sensitive users
headaches
dizziness, confusion
paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
possible psychological dependence on cannabis
"mild" withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. These may last for 1-6 weeks after cessation of use and can include anxiety, anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure), headaches, general unease/discomfort, difficulty sleeping, and a desire to smoke pot.


As with every other drug and psychoactive, some effects are unnoticable in some people, or more apparent in some people.

[chrisvo69er]

Cool post Killerby. Very interesting. Most of the negatives I don't experience so I must be one of the lucky ones

The last thread was just too tiresome for me to keep up with the onslaught of anti-MJ opinions and facts (as they're obviously gonna be stronger than the reasons for the pro-MJ opinions). And so I'm gonna avoid posting in this one. I just can't be bothered really.

[killabry]

Medical Marijuana:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi...al_info2.shtml Canabis is a safe medicine.
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi...iom_report.pdf (PDF) Institute of Medicine review of Medical MJ

History:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi...al_info3.shtml History of Medical use.
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi...culture3.shtml History of Intoxicant use.

[killabry]

Originally posted by chrisvo69er
Cool post Killerby. Very interesting. Most of the negatives I don't experience so I must be one of the lucky ones

The last thread was just too tiresome for me to keep up with the onslaught of anti-MJ opinions and facts (as they're obviously gonna be stronger than the reasons for the pro-MJ opinions). And so I'm gonna avoid posting in this one. I just can't be bothered really.

I don't experience most of the negatives as well, but in some people, they are very apparent. I've included them purely to provide information to debate.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Originally posted by Sualdam

Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar
can we throw an amendment on there.

any posts concerning the harmfull effects of mj must have conclusive proof from a medical association.

will this thread merely deal with mj itself, or with the effects of the prosecution of the use of mj?

And conversely, any posts concerning the miraculous healing powers of MJ must also have conclusive proof.

Wouldn't want the debate to be one-sided or unfair, would we?

man I actually nearly out of hand discount any healing powers of mj. but thanks for bringing it up, becuase somebody may actually believe it.

But yes those that say( i am one of them) that mj is superiour in relieving pain should have the proof to back it up.

[killabry]

Originally posted by Sualdam

Originally posted by killabry
I don't experience most of the negatives as well, but in some people, they are very apparent.

So are you saying that, as a minor, you are a user?

Yes, and I'm an excellent student in all honors classes. The weed has not made me "Reefer Mad" and i'm actually doing pretty good for myself.

I know minors who smoke and drink as well, so whats the difference? People who want it, will get it. Legal or not.

[Chelle2008]

Originally posted by killabry

People who want it, will get it. Legal or not.

Basically.


So we need to stop throwing people in jail because of a plant that grows out of the ground.


Legalize it!



*walks back out of thread humming Peter Tosh*

[halfshark]

Originally posted by killabry

Originally posted by Sualdam

Originally posted by killabry
I don't experience most of the negatives as well, but in some people, they are very apparent.

So are you saying that, as a minor, you are a user?

Yes, and I'm an excellent student in all honors classes. The weed has not made me "Reefer Mad" and i'm actually doing pretty good for myself.

I know minors who smoke and drink as well, so whats the difference? People who want it, will get it. Legal or not.

i know what you mean bryan. my mate is the smartest in my school, and damn he does everything! smoke, drink you name it he has done it.

[Sualdam]

Originally posted by Chelle2008
*walks back out of thread humming Peter Tosh*

...and puts fingers in ears and shouts 'la-la-la-la-la'

[Sualdam]

Originally posted by halfshark
i know what you mean bryan. my mate is the smartest in my school, and damn he does everything! smoke, drink you name it he has done it.

Your combined point, here, wouldn't happen to be that smoking pot makes you smarter, would it?

Irrespective of the benefits or otherwise of the active constituents, the simple act of inhaling smoke will likely catch up with you later on.

That isn't smart where I come from.

[chrisvo69er]

Originally posted by Sualdam

Originally posted by chrisvo69er
Cool post Killerby. Very interesting. Most of the negatives I don't experience so I must be one of the lucky ones

The last thread was just too tiresome for me to keep up with the onslaught of anti-MJ opinions and facts (as they're obviously gonna be stronger than the reasons for the pro-MJ opinions). And so I'm gonna avoid posting in this one. I just can't be bothered really.

Please stop trying to make out that anyone who apposes MJ is 'tiresome', making 'onslaughts', or just making you 'not bothered'.

People who are against MJ have valid points to make, and that last thread did not contain a significant number of offensive posts.

If you want to be taken seriously, you've got to take others seriously.

So accept that some people are against it - and acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, they might have a point.

Get of your little soap box and stop twisting my words and launching personnal attacks. That is one of the reasons the last thread got nuked.

No 1 - I didn't say anti-MJ people are tiresome. I said it was tiresome for me to keep up with the thread and posting counter replies. The onsluaghts I spoke of are the constant reminder that smoking is bad for you which we all know. It's not because of anti-MJ'ers that I can't be bothered. It's because I genuinely don't have the time at the minute to keep up with this thread.

I also never said that last thread contained offensive posts.

And I do take others seriously. And I do accept that people are against it. And I do acknowledge that they have a point.

Now cut the crap unless you want to speak about the debate and not about me. If you have a prob you can e-mail me (ilovecvoNOSPAM@hotmail.com <-remove CAPS). I'm not gonna fight with you on this board.

[Sualdam]

Originally posted by chrisvo69er
Get of your little soap box and stop twisting my words and launching personnal attacks. That is one of the reasons the last thread got nuked.

No 1 - I didn't say anti-MJ people are tiresome. I said it was tiresome for me to keep up with the thread and posting counter replies. The onsluaghts I spoke of are the constant reminder that smoking is bad for you which we all know. It's not because of anti-MJ'ers that I can't be bothered. It's because I genuinely don't have the time at the minute to keep up with this thread.

I also never said that last thread contained offensive posts.

And I do take others seriously. And I do accept that people are against it. And I do acknowledge that they have a point.

Now cut the crap unless you want to speak about the debate and not about me. If you have a prob you can e-mail me (ilovecvoNOSPAM@hotmail.com <-remove CAPS). I'm not gonna fight with you on this board.

Grow up, for heavens sake.

You were deliberately painting all anti-MJ people with the same brush.

If you didn't mean it, then learn to express yourself properly and suck back the crocodile tears.

You made your position on this abundantly clear in the last thread. Your's were some of the more negative postss.

So either accept that you are not going to get away with pushing pro-pot propaganda on here or put up with it.

Oh. And the last thread was 'nuked' by the person who opened it.

<< Memories ain't what they used to be... >>

[flipshark]

Originally posted by Chelle2008

Basically.

So we need to stop throwing people in jail because of a plant that grows out of the ground.

Legalize it!

No offence, but that is the weakest argument I have ever heard. Cocaine is derived from a plant the exact same way Marijuana is.

If we legalized every drug just because it "grows out of the ground" hundreds of harmful drugs would need to be included.

[Chelle2008]

Originally posted by flipshark




No offence, but that is the weakest argument I have ever heard. Cocaine is derived from a plant the exact same way Marijuana is.

If we legalized every drug just because it "grows out of the ground" hundreds of harmful drugs would need to be included.

Nonsense.

People have to actually CREATE cocaine. I have never seen deposits of white powder grow out of the ground.

It's the human intervention that makes the coca plant become cocaine.

The marijuana plant needs NO human intervention. It is just that, a plant. It's not "derived".

[chrisvo69er]

Oh. And the last thread was 'nuked' by the person who opened it.
<< Memories ain't what they used to be... >> [/B]

Another dig? I remember who closed it. The reason it was closed doesn't change

Still I'm not gonna argue your points because we'd just be going around in circles. Someones gotta make the call. My discussion with you is over.