16 - Web-Designer - Not taken seriously -Need Job

[bandwagon]

Sybersnake, I like your site, it's very clean, nice to look at.

Samsonknight - I also am sixteen and am currently working freelance with a few jobs lined up, although I do not intend this to be permanent - I will be going back to school at the end of the summer. I know your problems but stand by my argument. Anyway, I think your V.2.0 site is much better, but Im still not desperately fond of the poser figure, it seems a bit pointless.

If you are determined to find work then I suggest you follow Sybersnakes advice, get out there and get noticed, get connected, network and make friends in the business. I got my first job through my friends, and i did a few freebies before that, as well as some personal projects.

Most of all, good luck!

[Sybersnake]

Thanks bandwagon, i appreciate the feedback

Samsonknight ~ i told u so, it works. Bandwagon and i have proved it. Good luck job huntin!

[sbhikes]

I'll share some of my own experiences relating to this.

First of all, I couldn't get a job until I was 18, and even then I only got the job because of a friend.

I am not the best web designer. I'm pretty basic in Flash. Here's how I got a job in a large corporation as a web designer/developer:

First I purchased a domain name that actually had to do with something I'm passionate about so I could practice and learn (still learning).

When I went live with my site, I made and passed out brochures about my site that I paid $400 bucks to print (even though I couldn't afford it).

I offered to make a web site for the social service agency where I already worked (ok, I know you don't work anywhere yet, but maybe you could get a job in social work or something that will allow you to offer to do this?).

I requested informational interviews with local web design companies and nobody would talk to me, either. I finally got one when a friend of mine introduced me to a friend of hers who worked at one. Connections help the most, as you can see! Get out and meet people!

I took a low paying job to re-do a web site for a small company. The internship board at my local community college was how I found this one. Go to college! In my state you can attend community college while you are still in high school.

I also took a job as an adminstrative assistant and only because once a month I would be updating one of their web pages. Another thing for my resume.

My therapist at the time even got me a web job - a volunteer job for a web site redo for, you guessed it, yet another social service agency!

Then, a friend of mine recommended me to work for 2 weeks during Christmas break doing a mock up of web pages for a hosted web application a large company in town wanted to make. I still barely knew web design, but since I was a friend of a friend, I got the job. Connections! It's the only way!

They finally hired me on full time after a year, and that is because they knew by then that I was a dependable, hard worker. This is hugely important. Creativity is the tiniest element.

My whole career change, from social worker to web designer took me 2 years.

So, at the age of 16, you hardly have any reason to complain because your first job interview wasn't fruitful. It's going to be hard. It might take years.

Continue making your own site, but instead of just showing off graphics, maybe try making a site about something you are passionate about. Then it's not a problem to have content for your links, and you will also have a better incentive for making all the right design decisions, because ultimately, design for design's sake is useless.

[hurricaneone]

That's a nice post, sbhikes. Well written and it shows that you can always get on to where you want to be, with a little help from your friends, that is.

[rafiki55]

The age old saying of 'it's not what you know, but who you know' is still true!

[AZ3DGuy]

So you want to be a professional designer? Here's the plan:

If you're living at home with Mom and Dad and don't have bills, then you've got a GREAT opportunity here. You can spend as much time as you want designing sites. Find something you love and make a site devoted to it. Do it now, because once you begin getting freelance jobs you will never get a job that gives you 100% design freedom working on a subject matter that you love. You may get total freedom, or you may get to work on something you love. If you get both in one job, let me know. I'll nominate you for an award or something.

Actually, that brings up another point... your best marketing tool will be your portfolio. Once you begin getting freelance work, the first thing you drop will be your own portfolio. You'll be like every other designer and promise to keep your portfolio up-to-date, but it won't happen. Look at 20 random portfolio sites right now... 19 will have at least one "Coming Soon" page.

So, bottom line, here's what I would do as a plan: Spend the rest of this year designing a cool site. Samsonknight.com/sardines or samsonknight.com/detroittigers or samsonknight.com/rockymountainoysters or whatever the hell you love. Storyboard, design, implement, test and revise the WHOLE thing. Don't skip a step. Spend the next 4 or 5 months designing the portfolio parts of samsonknight.com. Make it kick ass. That puts us at May 2003. Spend May through October of 2003 doing everything you can think of to get your name out there. I mean tell everyone who will listen. Have business cards that match the design of your site. Don't focus on one potential client. Just get everyone you know to get everyone they know to look at your site. Tell them you want them to rate it or give you feedback. Just get people to see it. Someone will say, "Geez man, my roomate's dad's fishing buddy has a bunch of money and and wants to start rockymountainoystersonline.net. Could you do that site?" Spend October through December paying attention to the leads you'll get over the summer and fall, but don't quit getting your name out there. Never quit getting your name out there. By May of 2004 you'll have a sale. You'll do hundreds of hours of work, tear your hair out in frustration, and wonder how the hell you got stuck with the world's dumbest client.

DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO MAKE THE WORLD'S DUMBEST CLIENT AS HAPPY AS YOU CAN. He will be your key to the best job in the world: your second freelance job.

Good luck. Write back in 2004 and let us know if I was right about any of this.

[Sybersnake]

lol, don't forget that u'll go through 10 or so versions before u get THE ONE.
Then u'll be there!

[Gloomycus]

Originally posted by Sybersnake
lol, don't forget that u'll go through 10 or so versions before u get THE ONE.
Then u'll be there!

I went through about 4 "official" versions before I found THE ONE design.

[Sybersnake]

yeah, official. But like 40 non offical versions.. gloomy! Im on my "official" 3rd design now. The forth will come later.

[MASA]

hehe. im into my 6th version =)

[clate]

16 and you want to work for a corporation?? You do realize once you start working for a place that big you become just another "worker" there. I really don't think you would like that. I'm only 19 and I'm currently trying to start my own business that was a hobby in the beginning and also trying to design a website for it. You would not believe how stressful it has been in the past year for me. And I've barely advanced in the business and on my website since I'm also going to college. Also remember NOTHING ever goes asplanned. And you have ot make yourself stick out of the rest and "sell" them the idea of what they need for a website if they are confused and if they know what they want then "sell" them your service and why your service is the best. The real world isn't all about your actual work because if it was a lot of workers wouldn't be working(if that makes sense). Think of it this way say there was a singer(female) who was very attracting but her singing lacked, and then there was an unattractive singer who could sing very well, who do you think in todays society would get the job? Its all about appearance and who you know.

An example: My brother had been around computers since he was 6 and graduated from highschool and then went to community college. He failed or recieved low grades mostly do to lazyness but also some of it he couldn't do. My dad works at IBM and my dad got him an interview and at 20 my brother was working full time and making more than most people would be and he also had benefits. The reason why he got that job was because my dad new someone and got him through the waiting list and got him the interview.

Also get recognized and make as many contacts as possible. When I first started taking my hobby more seriously I didn't think that the communication(other than through the web) was that important, I just wanted to get my website up and start buying products to sell. But on the majority of dealer applications you have to have atleast 2-3 referrals. Now that became a problem for me since I hadn't really become "friends" with any other these other dealers to use them on my resume.


*Cliff note version* Get yourself known, make as many contacts as possible, think of new ways to sell yourself, practice, and be prepared for rejection, since we all get it a lot*


Sorry if near the end it doesn't make sense I was writing this at 140am and I'm very tired.

[GreenElephant]

hey,
the same thing happend to me when i was in high school. you know what i did. i didn't wine about it. i kept learning more and more. and when i graduated i own my own company. yeah so the spelling never got any better but hey my skill are off the wall. so just stick with it you will find job. heck if you don't just start doing it for your self.

well later hope you have better luck

ps e-mail me polywerks@directvinternet.com

[enstent]

Originally posted by GreenElephant
hey,
the same thing happend to me when i was in high school. you know what i did. i didn't wine about it. i kept learning more and more. and when i graduated i own my own company. yeah so the spelling never got any better but hey my skill are off the wall. so just stick with it you will find job. heck if you don't just start doing it for your self.

well later hope you have better luck

ps e-mail me polywerks@directvinternet.com

Your home page doesn't work.

[richardlpalmer]

Man, I can't believe I read all these posts... By the end of it there's no choice but to reply.

Look, don't complain or feel like a victim. I'm 33 and have been doing design work for some time. I now have a small company doing it.

Hey, you may have better skills than I, most likely do. What you don't have -- and need -- is an understanding of Marketing. What many of the above posts have said is true on this subject.

You could sell "varnished animal poop" and make money -- I kid you not. There is a market for anything you can imagine, it's just a matter of marketing it.

Are you listed in all the search engines & well? Get the book "Increase Your Web Traffic In A Weekend" and do what the guy says -- it's pretty much all free stuff. Know what the key words are for you site? Go to http://www.wordtracker.com/ and research it -- then optimize your site to draw some people to your site. Are you listed in Creative Moonlighter (http://www.creativemoonlighter.com/index.cfm) go there and sign up if not.

And I don't buy this "can't get work -- even if it's free" business. That's just BS -- you're not looking.

My first paid-for site (crappy by my current standards) was for my mom. I sold it to her for $400/$450 and let her pay for it over 4 months time. Surely you could pull something off like this. Do you have any friends? How about a favorite band or sport amongst your buddies? Do a killer tribute site. Want to see a cool site for a DJ? Check out http://www.yulia-nau.de/splash.htm and then ask yourself if there's any kids in your school that wouldn't kill for a web site of their own. Maybe charge them a couple hundred bucks, payable over time.

Get some domain names for your sites (http://www.buydomains.com is pretty cheap and includes free URL & Email forwarding) and host them free. Use masked URL forwarding so your users can't see where they're at if you're on a budget.

My web talent might pale in comparison to others, but I market my services. Put some ads in the Little/Nifty Nickel (or whatever cheap classified ads paper you have in your area) for what, $5 or $6 a week.

If you sold one site to a friend/family memeber for even $100 you could afford hosting, domain name registration and some cheap advertising in the paper for some time.

Get a little notebook and take it with you everywhere. Whenever you see a little mom and pop shop, note the number and call them (or just walk in). Try and talk to the owner and let them know you're an aspiring designer and want to build a site for them cheap. You'll do it for $200 or $400 or whatever.

Get a Yellow Pages (these are free) and sit down at the kitchen table with it. Find a section you could design for (Chiropractors, Landscape, Cleaners, etc.) and start calling from the "A's" asking for business. Offer the same cheap deal -- or even free in exchange for something (your mom would probably love the house cleaned or painted or something right?). Cold call one letter of the alphabet each day from that category.

Your skills are only one part of the equation -- and honestly not even that big of one. My site isn't particularly nice (although we are redoing it finally) but most every client I've ever sold services to hadn't seen my site until I directed them there for prices. I also use outside designers when needed (like recently on an "entire site needs to be designed, approved and built with Flash Splash Page, music and content in a week" project. The client was quoted a hefty price and we couldn't handle it this fast -- had to outsource the music, splash page, etc. while we got busy on template approval and layout.

Oh, and what was the closer for that client? It certainly wasn't a fancy site -- because he rarely uses the web and didn't find us -- it was me hitting the pavement and finding the business. The closer was actually marketing services we offer (promotion and search engine optimization on the web).

Have a look at http://www.trulyhuge.com and give it an honest opinion. We didn't build this site, it's a friend of mine's. Not much to look at huh? Well, he knows marketing and has literally thousands of links to that site all over the web. He also makes (by himself, in his house in the back room, all alone) 10's of thousands a month from that site (and I'm talking net here, not gross).

He only knows how to hand code html... But he knows how to get his name out there and people respond.

Well, I don't mean to bag on you too much, but acting like a victim because one potential client that sought you out flaked out on you won't get you very far in this group. I had one like that two weeks ago. The client "loves my ideas and wants to do business with me" but then all of a sudden has cold feet and backs out -- oh, and to the tune of about $4,000.

Get the idea of building 2 or 3 sites a week -- volume production -- and using only 1 or 2 of those a month for your profile. Think, "get 10 appointments this week" and hope to close one of them. You need to think big in this or any business to get anywhere -- at least that's my opinion.

Okay, I gave you some tips and suggestions in and amongst my rant, maybe you can use them...

[clate]

Perfectly said Richard!!

How are they going to use your services if they don't know who you are? MARKETING is KEY!!

I took a marketing class at college, and one of the things you learn is that it is your right to prove to them why your service is better than the rest and how you can help out THERE company.

I also do car audio installs and one of the things I will be doing this winter is installing a stereo into my friends BMW. I will be doing it for cheap because I know he will get my name around and he has a lot of other friends who other drive BMW's and high end cars. And after they see his install they will want to come to me where I can charge them regular prices. And then I will gain back all of the money I "lost." But you have actually gained so much more because you recieved the experience from the work, you made your "client" happy, they will spread the word about you, and finally the accomplishment of finishing the actual work.

All in all...its not always about your work...its how bad you make people want it!

[richardlpalmer]

Well said Clate.

So far the bulk of my work comes from word of mouth. When I opened up a business account the consultant asked about my business and was ecstatic to find out what we do (particularly the marketing end). She asked for a STACK of my business cards because she has so many new business owners sitting in front of her that ask about promotion and marketing (as well as internet) that she wanted to be able to give them my card!

I also have outside work but it entails managing two other web sites (again particularly marketing efforts because the sites are already built) so they make money.

[fifkikker]

some very usefull reply's... thanks everybody.

[samsonknight]

Thank you all for your replies. To show I really appreciate your comments, suggestions, criticisms etc.

http://www.samsonknightdesign.com click on the arrow to goto the credit section and look at the last name on the list

When I am not web designing, yeah I am constantly learning.

I read in one of these threads of a flash kitter suggesting that I should market myself. I have tried doing that, via submitting my site to google.com and via asking family members weather they have any clients/freinds intrested in web designing. My bro freind's , sis works at a web design company, and so I asked if he could get me into that company, he said he will but I havent heard nothing from him on that issue.
Also, apart from other teenagers,I have not got many promising contacts yet as I am still young.

I noticed in one of the previous posts that Bandwagon disliked the poser figure. Well I like it

A number of flashkitters have wrote in suggesting that I should create a dedication site. The truth is, I have in the past done such a thing; I created a "Matrix" clan site to show off my HTML skills http://www.angelfire.com/games2/werthematrix

^ Site was made just as I was getting into flash 3-2 years ago when I was 13-14. I stopped working on it, cos it was eating up too much time.

Some guys have commented on versions x, well from reading that I have realised that from version 1.0.

As a career I want to get involved in programming; web designing is a tempoery thing so that I can raise some cash up for education purposes, hobbies etc.

Thank you all for your posts , I really appreciate it.

-------------

Samsonknight

http://www.samsonknightdesign.com

P.S.

I will sort preloader out soon

------------

-= Where innovation meets design =-

[miyagiofflash]

ok, pardon me if i say something repetitive because i didnt read much of this thread before posting (should have) but i just wanted to say I am 17 right now and the best thing i have ever done was go out and get an internship at a local, but very good Advertising and Design agency.....if you are around my age/preparing for college definately look into doing this...i have learned so much, not only about design but also about the business and the industry, priceless information that you cannot get anywhere else, nor any other way.

[rafiki55]

Originally posted by miyagiofflash
ok, pardon me if i say something repetitive because i didnt read much of this thread before posting (should have) but i just wanted to say I am 17 right now and the best thing i have ever done was go out and get an internship at a local, but very good Advertising and Design agency.....if you are around my age/preparing for college definately look into doing this...i have learned so much, not only about design but also about the business and the industry, priceless information that you cannot get anywhere else, nor any other way.

Out of curiosity, how did you get this internship? Through school, an ad, or otherwise?

Thanks,