Client wants to be top of search engines - html built site?

**Jged** · 08-12-2002, 07:55 AM

Hi,

I have been approached to build a site for someone who wants to feature high in the search engines.

I was just wondering if anyone is ever faced with this problem sometimes, as Flash seems to have a disadvantage in the search engines? Do a search on the web and just see how many flash built sites appear at the top of the search?

So the natural choice has to be html each time wouldn't you say where the client wants to be in the top rankings?

Jged

**scrote** · 08-12-2002, 09:34 AM

you could use a combination of flash/html but judging by the fact that the customers priority seems to be rankings is there any need to use flash at all?

there is a search engines discussion thread here:

http://board.flashkit.com/board/show...hreadid=341165

**OddDog** · 08-12-2002, 04:07 PM

if your client is serious about coming hi in the listings then inform then of the paying options that exist.

**RazoRmedia** · 08-13-2002, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by OddDog
if your client is serious about coming hi in the listings then inform then of the paying options that exist.

Patrick, how can you blaspheme like this???

these paying services are rubbish, sheer rubbish.

$200 dollars express inclusion? pah, keep it!!!

**OddDog** · 08-13-2002, 06:55 AM

i do not mean the express entrance listings. Yahoo has this service but your 200 dollars does not even guarnetee listing in the directory !!!!

No

I am referring to the sponsor links, the PAID placement in search engine listings. Were you pay your money and get the number one position for a search term. Or the number two or ...

**RazoRmedia** · 08-13-2002, 06:57 AM

oh okay,

I'll let you off then.

these aren't worth the money either unless your dealing with porn or gambling.

**OddDog** · 08-13-2002, 07:10 AM

i do not know enough about the subject but i always use it to calm the client down when they put search engine placement top of there wont list.

`heh if you think it is that important why not pay for placement`

that tends to cool down there demand for top placement in the engines. it gets them to have more reasonable expectations on placement.

humm ´client expectation management´ ... off to start that thread now ...

**gecko2** · 08-13-2002, 07:13 AM

I'm not 100% certain, but don't you have to pay quite a lot of cash to guarantee a top 10 place in most search engines? We often have clients blaming us for not coming in at number 1 in whatever they do. But what you can realistically do? There's thousands of sites submitted for inclusion everyday.

**RazoRmedia** · 08-13-2002, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by gecko2
I'm not 100% certain, but don't you have to pay quite a lot of cash to guarantee a top 10 place in most search engines? We often have clients blaming us for not coming in at number 1 in whatever they do. But what you can realistically do? There's thousands of sites submitted for inclusion everyday.

depends on the keywords that are wanted as number one placement.

If the company name is quite unique (ie NOT smiths), you can get that top easily by making sure its in all the title pages, frequently used in content etc etc

**gecko2** · 08-13-2002, 07:56 AM

But how many potential visitors actually search by company name. Okay, big brand names fair enough, but usually it's their products and services which sometimes aren't well known. I think it's a tightrope where too many sites fall off just as they get on to it. Personally, I aren't too clued up about getting hits but would appreciate any advice on search engine rankings.

One of our other designers created a site, not particularly attractive, http://www.blowers-jewellers.co.uk about 4 years ago. The company sells Rolex watches and from having Rolex in the keywords and page title he currently gets about 42,000 hits a month and has made an absolute fortune from the site, but there again he sells expensive goods. This site was definately a one-off in our case.

Most clients don't expect to have to pay anything to get promotion as they see search engines being the start of their road to a million.

**scrote** · 08-13-2002, 09:08 AM

unless you have copious amounts of money search engine submission is practically a full time job if you want high rankings

clients need to be made aware of this as soon as its brought up - much the same as informing them that a good site is worth paying for

the expectations of the non-technical are way too high when it comes to outlay/return and the sooner the message is spread that the online world is not a highway to mi££ions for few pence the better

**gadawg** · 08-14-2002, 08:06 PM

It is usually very expensive to get high placement (top 10-15) in most major search engines. You have to realize there are millions of websites out there and new ones coming out every day. On top of that the big corporations and companies spend thousand if not millions of dollars on marketing and advertising their websites. I have a client who pays over $2000 a month to come up high for a few keywords in a few major search engines. Thats not every keyword and thats not every search engine;just a few. So i would make sure this client understands the cost involved and is willing to pay it. Good luck!

**RazoRmedia** · 08-15-2002, 04:36 AM

It all depends on the business you're in and the amount of competition. If the site has lots of competition (ie gambling, porn, software and hardware sales etc), there will be lots of competition and no doubt you will need to spend money.

If there is competition but in a less 'challenging' industry, say new media design, company sites etc, you do not have to spend hours and hours on search engine submissions, it should be a conscious part of the design and development process, it should occur naturally in your designs.

IE, simply having a small footer on every page with quick links or using breadcrumbs will greatly increase your rankings through no great effort.

**gecko2** · 08-15-2002, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by RazoRmedia

IE, simply having a small footer on every page with quick links or using breadcrumbs will greatly increase your rankings through no great effort.

What are breadcrumbs?

**RazoRmedia** · 08-15-2002, 04:52 AM

they are just what they sound like, backwards links on every page from where you've just come from. ie:

flashkit > boards > boardroom > this thread

each would be a link from the home page. another example for your site could be

home > downloads > scripts > search engine script

Others may call it something different, I have heard these links called different things.

hope this helps

**vampstko** · 08-15-2002, 08:20 AM

ok..i'll make it as simple as possible for everyone..

html is king...straight content will get you spidered
flash will never get listed unless you do pay per clicks

$300 to yahoo and such is actually worth the traffic if you get listed ...

you need link popularity for google..no exceptions..

Pay per clicks are great if you have the money to spend..it drives targeted traffic to your site..

most major search engines are no pulling results mainly from Overture and Google..(even aol now pulls google results)

if you want the traffic their are other options via search engines..kanoodle (PPC) is great.... but your major traffic come from overture yahoo and google

inktomi used to provide great traffic with partners like msn and aol..but their contracts are up and have moved on...

good luck..

**Sid☼** · 08-16-2002, 07:55 AM

check out this tutorial
http://www.kirupa.com/developer/mx/searchengines.asp

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