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Thread: Poll: judge for yourselves!

  1. #1
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    Poll:
    Look at the following website and evaluate it, pick some words which best describes it. Go in and have a look at all the pages. I hope you have high speed those pictures are horrendously large. I am trying to explain the difference between cheap work and good work to a client, and I figured some feedback might assist with getting this client to see past his own wallet as his cheapness makes for a very bad and unprofessional image. Select multiple words if you want if they apply. This site is not being evaluated for flash content, rather html comes first.
    http://www.allianceentertainment.org

    Personally as a talented designer I would scrap that primitive geocities level website design thing completely and build up an actual professional and trustworthy looking image. But then who am I to judge, perhaps other people can let me know if that's really appropriate for a promoter that's on the nightclub circuit. I mean seriously most of the nightclub websites are done extremely well, have had money spent on them and it shows. I feel quite strongly that when working with such a market, image IS everything and what comes to mind when I see that site is a far cry from the best. I feel that it does damage to their business. Let me know what you think though, who am I to judge? A poll with people either confirming or denying those views would be helpful, although if you've got something that doesn't fall in either category it still would be helpful.

    I appreciate any feedback I can get.

    Ryan Elson
    [Edited by stealthc on 09-18-2002 at 03:24 AM]

  2. #2
    Senior Member Wancieho's Avatar
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    Well, i'm not sure if you want the responses here. This is a generalised statement to people who "think" they can design there own sites cause they own Frontpage. Here goes.

    I'm a web designer and I have to deal with people like this all the time. It frustrates me chronically. For Pete's sake if you think "you" can design a site at least get the basics right Use a san-serif font not "frickin" times new roman! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, just had to do that

    KILL Frontpage aswell! Use the tools!

    If this is the logic then next time you need medical services operate on yourself Does this now make you realise that somethings are best left to the experts?

    Man it's an entertainment company and the page doesn't even entertain me!

    BTW, what's with the scrollbar on the side? Maybe you should look at the "code" and take it out? Instead of dragging and dropping everything

    Well, Stealthc I hope you can see my feelings on this

    O, I forgot the words:
    Cr#p
    Amateur
    A joke
    Unappealing
    Boring
    To complex for what it offers
    I wouldn't browse for longer than 30 secs.

  3. #3
    FK Lover
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    i closed it after 5 secs

    dito

  4. #4
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    thanks I feel the same way. I can't believe this guy thinks that some amateur like this is actually going to spit out a professional site (even within 2 years of work he still won't) for him. I guess he just wants an online presence so bad he doesn't care if he looks real cheap.
    Any more thoughts people?
    Replying to the thread is what I had intended, and that's not my work.
    I'm trying to point out to mr. promoter that if he got a sucky dj less people would show up at his events, but he didn't get a sucky dj he paid the substantial extra amount and got a good dj. The same thing works with webdesign. Personally, I've always thought that work of this quality should never be done FOR ANY BUSINESS, let alone a higher profile promotions company, but like I said who am I to judge, perhaps if people demonstrate a consensus on this maybe that client will think twice about continuing to make a serious mistake with his web presence efforts.

  5. #5
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    did you happen to have dialup? Is that why?
    HAHAHA
    I forgot to mention, the pictures are horrendously large. I still have to edit what I threw together for derrick the owner of alliance entertainment promotions and security. I took some already existing graphics on his site to show you what even the most amateur webdesigners should know. I think I'll go over it once and edit it so that it's more polite with him...but it does prove a big point doesn't it?
    http://24.57.73.234/ae/
    Those are my thoughts on what was done. I just focused on the biggest mistake that was made with it (of course I did also mention that I would never willingly, even if I was getting paid good for it, design something like what he has now, it's brutal).

    Looks like someone doesn't know anything more than a few simple photoshop effects, knows nothing about file formats and how to use good source images before making pictures or graphics. In fact he doesn't know how to save images properly even when he gets the format right. What an oblivious designer.

  6. #6
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    looks amateur... 1st site i've made wasnt close to be that bad looking... and god knows that it looked bad...

    as for the cheap design vs good work thats in no way a money issue... if you think that you cannot make better or improve what is done unless theres big money involved, you obviously are a moron (sorry, but thats what i think)

    using different colors for txt, make button links instead of text links, use different font, etc... that can all be done without spending much work/money/time...

    if he is really the problem, as in : he wants a 10K site for a few bucks... then tell him he'll have to find someone else...


    stop *****ing about the guy who made the site, be professionnal in your presentations, your example... makes you look unprofessionnal...

  7. #7
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    No actually he was going to get everything he wanted, including a site done entirely in dynamic flash along with an html version of the site. ROFL. Don't you think that would have been worth $1500 canadian collars? (that's like $750 US).
    What he's spent on that site so far is equivalent to $50 getting it assembled and probably $100 getting updates and upgrades.
    Were talkin about a NIGHT CLUB promoter here, this isn't just the type of business you can run a crappy site and get away with it. Looks are everything.
    Do you really think $750 is horribly expensive for a site with whatever functionality he desires in there, reduced milking (it's where webdesigners charge $15 a pop to change something that takes 5 minutes after they are done building the site), and much greater advanced technique.
    Like I said--if he had a cheap dj nobody would show up at his parties and for the many designers out there who have been on the club circuit they all know as well as I do that even with a slight improvement to geocities front page quality work there, it's still not going to pass as a professional site that took any serious amount of cash to build. $50 is not a serious amount. I'm sorry but here is where I draw the line and say that quality is much better over quantity, the web needs less sites like this. Even if it were improved, by doing what was mentioned, the web needs less of those kind of sites too.

  8. #8
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    Yeah I know but I want this client. Just how to go about pointing it out to him. Are you suggesting that I should sink down to (ugh) THAT level and actually improve it and get him to slap my name on it? *sigh*.
    And what exactly do you suppose you'd do for $50?
    Cmon I know 12 year olds that can afford more for a website than him.
    When you go get a website done, a PROFESSIONAL one, I still have to say that $50 is not going to buy you more than an hour and a half's worth of effort. To make a decent site I can say that there should be a minimum effort of 6 times that (or 10 hours of work). So $300. I suppose I can make it non-scripted (and just charge as his old webdesigner did for updates) and I suppose I don't have to do any flash (even though derrick has asked his $50 webdesigner if he could do flash, which he can't) either. To top it all off, don't forget this is CANADIAN money we are talking about!!! I mean seriously the quotes he got from everybody else (accept for mr.geocities design) was upwards around $3000 to $5000 CAD.
    Now don't you suppose that what I offered him was a good deal?
    [Edited by stealthc on 09-18-2002 at 02:55 PM]

  9. #9
    Ghetto Fabulous melmann's Avatar
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    Why so much interest in a site that the guy obviosly doesnt want to spend more money? I think that you would be better exhuasting your energies and skills on clients that want to use and pay for your talent. And if its still killin you to do this guys site, why not for free or the little money hes offering? Are you bound by a contract?

    If you have convinced him of your talent and he still doesnt think he should change his mind and is happy with the design style, then that would be his problem and you should move on. I usually do mocks at ( no cost ) and if they like it I give them my estimate. If they dont like my estimate then they dont recieve my services. Then its on to the next potential client.

    Giving it cheaper also makes you look desperate and unprofessional. If you have confidence in your work you should get paid what you think your worth. And if you think you deserve Mcdonalds money you should probably work at Mcdonalds. Believe in your talent enough to say " I know I'll get paid what Im worth.... you dont want to pay it, I know there are others that will " You'd probably have an easier time.

    This is only my opinion though.
    Best of luck with this,
    peece,
    Mel

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