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Thread: My 1st post, so lets get 2A out the way

  1. #1
    Perverse Futurist villain2's Avatar
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    Well, I'm new here but have been using Flash Kit for a while. I'm in the process of starting up a web design/graphic design company and have been a flash designer for a while now. I'll be submitting my work here for review in a week or so ...

    Which brings me to this ...

    Why is every 3rd site linked FOR BUSINESS ripped from 2A? I admit, when I first learned flash, I recreated the 2A v2 site (the grey one with the cool ambient music) ONLY to learn how to make a site with motion, color schemes, coding etc. etc.

    The sites I've done for business are completely my own, and I feel I've come far enough now to use my own ideas and carve out my own voice ... not one like WhosWe, not one like 2A, or any other company who's heralded for Flash work.

    Saying that, I don't think they corner the market on 45degree angles, flashing text and loaders and icons, "dink" noises for buttons or the use of really small unreadable text to give a tech feel to a background (I've used that technique for years which is why I gravitate to 2A because they do the same thing on the web).

    So, the question becomes, where is the line between COPYING 2A or WhosWe or Pixelranger etc. etc. and having a STYLE that is in their universe?

    y2kc

  2. #2
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    all good qustions. i wish i had the answers to those. one thing though, i wouldnt put whos we in the same class as 2A, they aint all that.

  3. #3
    Senior Member James Bending's Avatar
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    This is a brilliant first post and a big issue on the FK boards which have had alot of interesting points by some extremely good designers, im sure you'll fit right in.

    I think the line here is slightly blurred between a rip off and something original, alot of rookies (im not saying that im not a rookie, (though i have had 3 years exp in part time work at http://www.cosmic.org.uk as a webdesigner from the age of 15, freelance and entered my animations into local gallerys, also winning 1st prize for the use of digital multimedia in Devon, just so you know im not talking out of my ass )but its quite more common in newer designers to use 2A layout, text, sounds, colour scheme, motion and navigation style. Although you can't classify it as a copy and get in trouble, anyone can say that they just ripped them off. However if someone produces a different twist to the 'technological ambient' style using original ideas then they (in my opinion anyway) have produced something worthwhile.


    You definately have the right idea by trying to go into a different direction so goodluck and welcome!

    Thanks
    Jim

  4. #4
    simo jacci's Avatar
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    villain2: True that every 3rd post have something to do with 2A, but I don't understand why you do the same if you really don't like the issue. Again this threath is all about 2advanced. This issue about "why why why A2" has been posted here million times before. If your opinion about the issue is that these "A2-threaths" are useless, then WHY POST THEM!?

    My opinions about the issue:
    1. I really don't care if some site have similary elements that 2a's sites have. If the site is good then it is and if not then not, no matter how it's done. When I see something that I have seen many times before it's not very often a coolsite. End of story.
    2. Eric Jordan is truly a flashgod. No-one else haven't get to this kind of impact.
    3. I'm full of this issue so, in future, I wont reply to this kind of threaths.

    /Simo

  5. #5
    Senior Member James Bending's Avatar
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    3. I'm full of this issue so, in future, I wont reply to this kind of threaths.

    /Simo
    [/B]

    ok... contradict yourself by posting a message about your views on 2 advanced site when you clearly are sick of it and its spelt threa-D, THREAD. you managed to write threaths 3 times! Also villain2 wasn't trying to say anything about the issue of useless 2advanced threads if you read the post you would realise he is trying to get a clear distinguished border between a rip off and an original and seeing as hes just introduced himself thiers no point in hammering into him. so nuuuuuuhhhhhhh.....

    James

  6. #6
    Perverse Futurist villain2's Avatar
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    Yeah, pretty much ... thanks!

    This post was because 2A is how I got into flash design outside of just moving text across a screen. I've read 1000000s of post about the style copying but never did anyone (that I saw) clearly distinguish between COPYING their sites and being in their same STYLE.

    I think 2A's style has impacted like a major art movement over a 1000 years ago, like the Romantic Period or the Renissaunce or Gothic Art periods. Those periods (since I assume we've all studied art being designers) were heralded in by a new take on designing in paint and sculpture, and the artist of the period took their hand to the style, much like designers now take their hand to 2A style ... in this modern era, we can call this form of design the 2A period, because that's what it really is.

    Too bad in 1000 years no ones going to remember this period of the art world ... or maybe they will? After all, Eric Jordan keeps talking about his "forward Japanese Technological world" ideas

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by villain2
    I think 2A's style has impacted like a major art movement over a 1000 years ago, like the Romantic Period or the Renissaunce or Gothic Art periods. Those periods (since I assume we've all studied art being designers) were heralded in by a new take on designing in paint and sculpture, and the artist of the period took their hand to the style, much like designers now take their hand to 2A style ... in this modern era, we can call this form of design the 2A period, because that's what it really is.
    lol
    quit smoking man...

    its not like 2A, whoswe, pixelranger, etc. people invented the wheel or something...

    paint & sculpture, arent you forgetting architecture, clothing, and few other stuff art-student ? ... no way a web-designer will have that impact, who ever he/she is...

  8. #8
    Cool Sites Official Critic
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    2a rock, bottom line.

  9. #9
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    villan2 has a good point. Why do you put down the internet artform so quickly, you're one of it's artists?

    If you really wanted to expand your mind you could say that flash (or computers even) are the wheel that was mentioned above.

    When cavemen carved on walls the tools for artwork were chisels, when monet painted his tools were paint, a brush and a canvas, and when eric jordan creates his masterpieces he uses a computer.

    I'd say there is definately an evolution there. And besides where have you ever seen that futuristic style anywhere else in history? It's a new period in design.

    I guess what it comes down to is that just because monet used pointalism, doesn't mean that every other artist who uses it is copying him.

  10. #10

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    funny how everytime the name 2A popsup
    the repley list is as long as the chinese wall..

    like the witty comments though.
    these threads are as much exciting as dissecting a frog..


    welcome villain2..

  11. #11
    is not a good designer. No-Tec's Avatar
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    haha budget !
    its golden, 'aint it?

  12. #12
    The Excentrifugal Force SSC Cosmic's Avatar
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    I believe the law says you need to be 15% different.

    It's hard to turn that into a measureable thing, but I think of rip-offs in the same way some congressman whose name I have forgotten thinks of pornography:
    "I don't know how to define it, but I know it when Isee it" (paraphrased).

  13. #13
    FK's Homer J. kony2003's Avatar
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    i dont even know how many times somethin liek this has been talked about, this is a COOL SITES FORUM, post your cool sites, always 2a talks...

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by karidee
    I'd say there is definately an evolution there. And besides where have you ever seen that futuristic style anywhere else in history? It's a new period in design.
    no one here is saying that 2A work sucks... well at least not me...

    but dont give credit to people for things they havent done... new period in design... damn...

    before taking examples trough history, study a little... cavemans were not only designing animals... it was also one of their way of communicating with each other, add the fact that scientists thought, until 2-3 decades ago that cavemans were 'speechless'... THERE you have history...

    same goes with Monet, Dali, Shaggal, Rembrandt, or any other painters... they made history in their own field because we remember them decades/centuries later... their work is still amazing... and its still almost impossible (almost) to make 'as good' with today high tech tools...

    who will remember the firms mentionned before in a decade or so ? probably none of us...

    get real... even though you have a computer, are wired to the internet, and have flash player software... it is still possible not to know about theses corp...

  15. #15
    Senior Member THeHNIC's Avatar
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    Hey Flashkit...
    Can you make it so when some one types in 2A, it ends up as "**" when they type it in?
    Just a thought.
    I see it soooooooooooo often.

  16. #16
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    I think people are getting tired of "2A" the modern style, maybe it's time to push flash design to another level,
    we need to be more creativity, explore yourself.
    Imitate is not a shame, but imitate too much will
    leads you to a place where you can never find yourself
    back, be creative, explore yourself,
    there are no right or wrong, just do it!!
    cheers

  17. #17
    Moderator whispers's Avatar
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    Blah, blah, blah...
    This thread started off with a great question (IMHO)

    What is the line?..Hard to say...I saw a post that said "I dont know how to explain it..but I know it when I see it"..I think that sums it up pretty good...

    So other posts were very unintelligent...

    Who will remeber these firms 10 years from now?..I will...most of them..especially 2A. (if they keep creating great work)I think are cutting edge... and do lead into uncharted territory. Are they the ONLY ones?..Of course NOT!! But pretty much the most famous.

    Just because you have a computer, the internet,..and FLASH PLAYER software does that mean that you will know about the design firms?... OF course NOT!
    And in the same breath IMPLYS...that if you have a brush and canvas you will know Dali, Rembrandt, Monet..etc..etc.

    I personally have never even heard of Shaggal.

    HAHAHAHA...LOL... too funny.
    Definatley NOT true....

    In years from now (maybe even now..)I will bet that 2A/Eric Jordan will be thought of as pioneers in the flash/web development industry.

    Pick up some FLASH books..you will see references to 2A sites/work.... that is ALREADY "history".

    -whispers-

  18. #18
    Flash Guru pbleper's Avatar
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    Some ideas:

    If the wheel had never been copied, experimented with, and improved after it's invention, where would we be today?

    Take a look at HTML sites. I'd say that well over 75% of HTML sites follow the general template of a menu at the left, and body to the right of the menu..
    scrolling down.

    Some people seem to be gifted with the chance to make something original and groundbreaking. Other people seem to find this extremely hard to do, and possibly find it easier to build on someone else's ideas.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by whispers
    I personally have never even heard of Shaggal.

    HAHAHAHA...LOL... too funny.
    Definatley NOT true....

    In years from now (maybe even now..)I will bet that 2A/Eric Jordan will be thought of as pioneers in the flash/web development industry.
    quite ironic, while you say these were unintelligent posts, you summarise pretty nicely what i think in two sentences...

    1- if there was a list of top 20 painters of all time, Shaggal would be in it... and you dont know who he is

    2- exacty, not an "all-around" designer, a -> flash designer/developper...

    you can think of this too if you feel like it... most of those known as genius today, were laughed at when they were alive and painting/sculpting/etc... so what is seen today as great, awesome work/art might sound/look ridiculous in a few years... who knows for sure...

    we all agree that these firms are doing great stuff (even I think so) but maybe we should wait a few years before saying they made history...

    funny, ill bet a old buck that most of those using the 'history' word... never really studied history...

  20. #20
    Moderator whispers's Avatar
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    So you are saying that there is a timeframe on "history"? Didnt know there were rules. Cause having something recorded in a book (being noted for great skill or cutting edge ideas)that one can look back on at any time seems to be history to me. A PAST EVENT!!

    Your statement of 20 painters...Shaggal would be in it...is SURELY your opinion. (which may or may NOT be a majority opinion)

    But just goes to prove that not every one knows these "artists" decades later because they made history in their own fields. Your own statement about just cause you have a computer, internet..etc..etc,..it is possible NOT to know about these firms is null because the SAME VALID point is made about your painters/artists.

    WHICH by the way does NOT mean they didnt change the art world or for that matter 2A/Eric Jordan didnt start a new period in design.etc..etc..


    -whispers-
    [Edited by whispers on 09-29-2002 at 04:39 PM]

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