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anime for TV with Flash?
hi
can anybody ever did an anime in flash for TV if some body did what r limitations for that?
thanx
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GAME ON!!!!
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Lead Flash Animator
...if I may add my 2 cents...
Having animated Flash for TV ('Cisco and Ripple' for Black Starz Network, but not the web version), but not personally done the conversions to tape, at least I can tell you about the animation side of it. We did ours at 18fps and I think it was 400x555 (or something around that; sorry, it was over a year ago and I don't remember the exact dimension!). We had it time-stretched to 30fps for video, and it looked just fine.
Luckily, animation for TV, VHS, or DVD involves less problems than animating for web. There are no audio synch problems, because the audio is published out seperately and put on its own audio track. The visual part is published out one frame at a time as bitmaps, so there are no dropped frames. Because both are laid to tape independently, there are no CPU demand problems, so both run real time.
So if you publish it out in a swf, and the synch goes off, don't worry about it. How it plays up in your fla is the way it will come out on tape.
And the link Megatoon posted is also a wonderful source of info. Need to take a little time and look over it myself!
Hope that helps,
Boomph
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Animating anime for TV
While making animations for TV, normally people consider following things:-
1) Always increase frame rate and speed while working on flash. Keeping more frames in flash help thew video to play smoothly. Even the speed of the animation should also increase (i.e. 25 fps).
2) Always use dark backgrounds and lighter text.
Right now i dont know much more techniques aboput anime on TV.
But require some more suggestions.
VICKYMUSTDIE..........
Vickymustdie...
Believe me, I'm Improving...
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GAME ON!!!!
When working an animation for brodcat work on 24fps (film). Thsi can later be run thru a video editing application to run at 30fps (video).
Copmpletly forgot to post this link a NTSC safe color pallete for Flash:
http://www.flashfilmmaker.com/Online_Tools/
Last edited by megatoon; 01-19-2003 at 06:58 PM.
Wash My Dirty Mouth
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Lead Flash Animator
Again, great suggestions all, and a lot of things I did not know myself! (Boss said "Here, animate this! Here's the specs..." So I just had to trust that he knew what he was doing.)
I agree with what has been said so far, but from the practical end, know that the higher your fps rate, the more frames you have to deal with (18 fps vs 24 fps is proportionally 30% more frames, and in reality, about 40%-50% more work!). And if you have to do quality animation, every frame is going to make a difference!
So if you are under tight deadlines and tighter budgets, consider this before you commit yourself to a higher fps and stretch your time and resources beyond profitability. If this is a project for yourself, and you can take as long as you want, then blow the roof off the dump and make it shine at a higher fps! But if this is for someone else who needs it done by a certain time and only has so much to spend, then do budget accordingly, and do it at an fps that is good enough to make the animation acceptably smooth. (Heck, I think it was Hanna Barbera that had broadcast animation as low as 9fps!)
We all want to do an excellent job, but I would hate to see you work your fingers to the bone with bloodshot eyes and have to eat dogfood in the meantime. Been there, done that, and unless you are doing a portfolio piece, its not worth the pain. Just be realistic in what you can deliver, and if they can afford better quality, then give it to them! If this is business, then you gotta treat it as such, or you devalue the worth of your own time and work.
Just passing that on from the school o' hard knocks,
Boomph
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Its easy
I made some animes fot TV...
First take a looke at frame speed (i used 30fps)
800x600 pixels (depending the monitor that will execute the movie)
I saved as bmp and opened in premiere to make a sequence an ad sound...
C ya
Jorge Bellini
Produção
S6iS
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Great info here.
I'll just add this about frame rates: set flash to a high frame rate. 24 or 30.
I totally agree that that SOUNDS like more work: but its really not. Or, at least, doesn't have to be. What it gives you is freedom. You see, if you set your frame rate to, say, 10..... thats only 10 fps to animate - but that is also THE FASTEST and SMOOTHEST your movie will ever play. It is not restricted to 10fps.
If you instead set the frame rate to 30..... you can still animate at 10 fps by making each frame last 3 frames long. The advantage is that often times animation that moves WHILE a background is being panned (a moving camera effect DURING animation) will look better at a higher frame rate..... setting flash to 30 frames allows you to take advantage of smoother animation and smoother flash tweens during these instances. True, animating at 10fps on a 30fps timeline is a pain in the ass - but it is very very beneficial as simple tweens in flash can look jerky sometimes on lower frame rates.
Just some advice. If you're confident you'll never need to increase your frame rate during the production, then there really is no reason to set flash any higher than your maximum..... heck Bill Plympton made it a style to animate on 4s.... though, if you watch, his still image pans and stuff are usually smooth, ulnike the jerky styled character animation: this was done using that higher frame rate mentioned above.
"That's my horse"
-Deathstalker
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Lead Flash Animator
consistency of movement
Great info, Coffeecat! But what I also want to suggest is that the eye gets used to a certain rate of motion, so if you see 10fps, you get used to the rate of motion at 10fps. So if you have segments that noticeably get smoother and then coarser again, it looks incongruous to the eye and reads as a discontinuity, ergo, a 'mistake'. And takes you out of the suspension of belief and reminds you that this is just a cartoon. The medium should be as invisible as possible to the story and the 'reality' of the situation. It's better that the whole thing read the same, than to have parts of it move differently than the rest of the show.
But I do agree that certain moves like quick physical action and camera pans can look very rough at lower frame rates. So the trick is to make those movements read smooth without looking different than the rest of the animation. So experiment with higher frame rates on those segments, but just make sure that the change in animated fps does not look noticeably different. We want to believe that those DBZ characters are real!!
Kaaaa-mehhhh-haaaa-mehhh-HAAAA!!!
Boomph
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Moderator
Re: consistency of movement
Originally posted by boomph
So the trick is to make those movements read smooth without looking different than the rest of the animation.
Looks like we're getting into a philosophical debate about technique.
Which I don't mind a bit.
I agree with boomph - it is quite possible to animate at the lower frame rate and keep things like tweens in check, if you look to tweak your motion to compensate for the lower frame rate. Besides, if you're outputting single frames for television, why not animate the background on single frames, or write a script-based motion tween where you can change the speed by changing a single variable?
As I think everyone has mentioned, but bears repeating, is that keyframes make all the difference - acknowledge the framerate you will be animating at, then plan your key actions and holds accordingly. And don't be afraid to remove frames to get a quicker action.
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Lead Flash Animator
Deep Thoughts, by Boomph Handey
Originally posted by CNO
Looks like we're getting into a philosophical debate about technique.
Which I don't mind a bit.
"Philosophy"? I cordially beg to differ, CNO! Whether it's done with Flash, 3Dmax, pencil and paper, or toenails and toothpicks, the audience really doesn't care. Animation as a skill is independent of the medium in which it is done. And it is your story and animation they are going to see, not the method in which it's produced.
As anyone who has read any of my previous posts, I come at this from the 'art/animation' side, which is why I LOVE this forum and the members therein! And I love flash, but only in as much as it allows me to do what I want in this medium. But what I have to ultimately keep in mind is how does it look in the end to the audience. So how a technological problem gets solved is of little concern to me, as long as the animation still looks great when played.
Having animated at different fps for different mediums, I know for a fact that higher frame rates makes for more work! This is no theory!! If you are doing both hand-tweening and computer-tweening, it is going to make a helluva difference if your hand-tweens are moving at 10fps but your Flash-tweens are moving at 30fps! The difference in smoothness of motion is going to be terribly noticeable!! So you either have to make more hand-tweens (buku work!) or retime your Flash-tweens to match your hand-tweens (maybe CNO knows how to do it with code?) But if you are using both in a shot, I can only imagine the nightmare that is going to be to control both if they are not animating at the same fps!!
I am always open to technological solutions to artistic problems. And I have learned so much from the rest of you on that topic!! But I like to think that I add to the mix by emphasizing the genuine animation side of the argument. That sometimes you have to move past Flash itself and really see what it is you're putting out there for the audience to see.
So whatever framerate you decide to animate in, Tongue, just realize the pros and cons to higher and lower fps's, and if you can get it to look the way you want however you do it, Game over! You've won!
Love Y'all, and just trying to put in my 2 cents to those who really want to push Flash animation into the realm of art!
As the verbose one puts away her soapbox yet again,
Boomph
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Moderator
I come from an animation background as well, and I know I never had to deal with animation playing back too slow (unless some wiseguy had a film projector with a hand-crank or kept pressing the pause button on a VCR).
I think the point Coffee Cat was more aiming for is creating a piece of animation for multiple mediums - as mentioned in the last paragraph (and I tried to hint at), if you have control over your final framerate, animate at that framerate. And, if you're exporting static images for inclusion into another program for film/television, feel free to animate at half that rate and just double up on your frames in post.
I will try to post a bit of code-based timing, which is infinately better than relying on the timeline (again, due to that varying-playback speed thing I mentioned), but is usually counter-intuitive when trying to do a straight-ahead animation, and even tougher to work into an animation which hasn't been planned to accomodate it (but can be useful when synching to specific music points/voice tracks).
I always enjoy good discussions about good techniques.
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Lead Flash Animator
Very cool, CNO! look forward to seeing that coding! Hey, anything that helps the animation play better!
I could be missing the point, but what I am talking about is not so much the technical speed of the animation, but the smoothness of motion, even if it is put frame by frame to video. That technically, it may work, but aesthetically, if you are doing straight-ahead animation on 2's or 3's, but Flash-tweening at 24 or 30fps, the eye will see the difference in quality of motion.
And it can make a for a mismatch of animation style if it is terribly obvious. Sort of like when they do 2D animation on a 3D BG, and they are not well-integrated. You are always aware of the difference, and it kinda ruins the effect of both. That's all I'm saying is that at a higher framerate, you will either have to do even more hand-drawn tweens to match the Flash tweening, or somehow match the Flash tweening to the movement rate of the hand-drawn tweens. To my thinking, you do not want it obvious to the viewer which is which.
I always bow to those with greater knowledge and/or experience, as I still have much to learn in this terribly complicated artform. But I feel it can't hurt to pass on what I have dealt with in my own experience. And I have found that in answering questions, I learn even more than asking. So I relish when someone has come up with better answers than I have, as I get to glean that knowledge too!
So if you don't mind this intellectual banter, neither do I! I think it's fun! (only another animator knows what the heck I'm talking about, so it's good to chat with those in the know!)
With great respect to all,
Boomph
PS - CNO, do they still really use 'hand-cranked' projectors these days??
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