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Thread: HEY! YOU, yeah YOU.

  1. #1
    Circa 2001
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    HEY! YOU, yeah YOU.

    I mean, really guys. What did you say when YOU had no professional experience? You were not all the dieties you can now proudly claim to be from birth- how does one with no reputation approach potential clients? What sort of items are standard for one to already have in his (HER/IT'S) portfolio?

    (I know these are a lot of questions-so just pick and chose, I suppose.)

    A grand is a standard charge (I hear) so how do I justify that?

    How far do you go with a mockup if they ask for one, do you even go down that road at all?

    Maybe some of you only provide sketches initially to clients until money changes hands, I dunno.

    Somebody come in here and kick my naive ass! I'd like to make a proposal to the salon my wife and I go to (one selling point would be that clients could sign up for appointments online).

    tell tell

    Rilian

    P.S.-Hurricane, Mickey D's wasn't intrested.
    Last edited by Rilian20; 02-11-2003 at 07:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Well those are good questions.

    First off welcome to the club. You will find something different in the Flash community where you can actually come to places like this and (gasp) get help. (Truefully this exists and many areas of web dev but such is not the case in other fields)

    One thing you have to accept is that you must immerse yourself in the world of Flash/Web dev. 50% effort will not cut it. Things change daily and there is always more to know.

    Now how to get experience. Many people Intern at agencies or get lucky straight out of school. But the best way, IMO, is to try and get so free/low paying gigs for friends, families, non-profit groups and such. And do your best on them. This way you learn how to work with people, what questions you need to ask, how to manage expectations and the like. Also your friends and family will prove to be some of the toughest clients you will ever have, because they are not afraid to tell you things that maybe real clients will not.

    Books will be your friend. Along with forums like these I find books to be the most amazing resource for inspiration and help. If you cannot afford all the books you want go to your local enormous book store and hang out. They don't mind :P

    Here's an old joke about experience:

    A student was interviewing a sucessful executive:

    Student: How did you become Successful?
    Exec: By making the right decisions.

    Student: How do you know what the right decisions are?
    Exec: Experience.

    Student: How do you get experience?
    Exec: By making the wrong decisions.

    Hope this gives some insight

  3. #3
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
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    Re: HEY! YOU, yeah YOU.

    Originally posted by Rilian20
    P.S.-Hurricane, Mickey D's wasn't intrested.
    And you showed such potential. Their loss.



    Almost everything I have done for work lends a bit of a hand to making sites. I did page layout (paste up) at a number of newpapers during high-school summers, I did a lot of art at school and university, I can write a good line of verbage (university). Right out of uni I was preparing presentations for ad sales account execs (more layout, image work, the first serious computer experience), then I was in charge of assembling photos for a database, most of which needed some serious touch up work.

    Add the correct apps, and that's it. Just a series of coincidences that add up to help make sites.

    OK, you got me. The bartending and the car sales did nothing at all for the site development.
    Stand by for emergency synapse rerouting

  4. #4
    Senior Member dlowe93's Avatar
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    Re: Re: HEY! YOU, yeah YOU.

    Originally posted by hurricaneone
    OK, you got me. The bartending and the car sales did nothing at all for the site development.
    Huh? Every time i'm in a difficult meeting and tempers start to flare, my bartending days kick in.

    IMHO, there's nothing that will teach you client management better than working in a restaurant.

    d.
    dlowe93

  5. #5
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    Excrement advice, gentleworms. I must say I agree with d. on resturanteering, and dcullipher, thanks for the warm welcome.

    So, how about picking up one of these beggars who hang out on the forums looking for free work? (I've noticed you guys trying to deter them, so I'd hate to encourage-or is there a potential mistake involved I don't need to make?)

    Did that make sense? Am I talking?

  6. #6
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: HEY! YOU, yeah YOU.

    Originally posted by dlowe93
    Huh? Every time i'm in a difficult meeting and tempers start to flare, my bartending days kick in.
    d.
    Yep, you're right, but I didn't work in those 'let's talk this over gents' kind of places. I'd let it go and set up drinks for the winner.



    So, Rilian, after you've 'picked up' one of these 'beggars' what do you intend to do with them exactly?
    Stand by for emergency synapse rerouting

  7. #7
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    I dunno Hurricane...what did you do with the last one you tasted?

  8. #8
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
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    welcome rillian,

    We don't neccesarily deter people from doing free work if its the right type of work. Too many companies will come along looking for something for nothing and will seize on the opportunity to enlist the help of a flash newbie who will work for nothing / next to nothing. This can bring the actual price of a flashers work down. When they realise that this work will not fit in with their professional corporate identity, they then discover they have to pay 50-100 per hour for it done professionally, there is no middle ground.

    If I were starting out again, I would get a job with a small design company. This way, you have decent clients and you're getting paid (albeit not a great amount at first).

    If you want to increase your portfolio, there's always plenty of charity groups looking for web work and this will 'shine' on your CV.

    Alternatively, set yourself a mad challenge that is way above your skills and work at it. Not only will this look like an advanced piece of work, it will teach you valuable skills.

    Good luck
    Living the dream

  9. #9
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rilian20
    I dunno Hurricane...what did you do with the last one you tasted?
    Threw 'em back - inexperience does not add to the flavour bouquet.
    Stand by for emergency synapse rerouting

  10. #10
    Monkey Wrangler monsterfx's Avatar
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    How to find people deserving of low-cost/free sites:

    Search on-line to find local charitable/non-profits in your area. Look for the ones with the FrontPage template site that is waaaaay out of date. Then call 'em up, tell them who you are, that you are looking for opportunities to gain design experience, that you think their cause is admirable (ALWAYS butter up the client), and that you would love to do a redesign/update of their site.

    I'm in a similar situation, except that I have a few years experience at other companies and am trying to start my own freelance business on the side. I have one non-profit redesign in the works and a new design for a friend who is starting an organization. Neither of them is paying me, but they really are decent causes and since I have a day job, I won't starve.

    Oh, and since they are both non-profits, you better believe I'll be looking into writing off my "donation" come tax time. Just have to make sure I have it in writing.

    That actually makes me think of one other thing. Make sure you have a contract (you can call it a "written agreement" if you think the term "contract" will scare them a little) that specifies what each party is responsible for. Even if you aren't getting paid for it, it can help keep everyone's expectations in check.

    See: http://www.scottmanning.com/archives/00000064.php

    -monster.

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