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Thread: 'creation Vs evolution'

  1. #21
    New Wave Visionray's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar
    no it doesn't. evolution says we occasionally get all kinds of skills and abilities, some usefull some not.
    Exactly.
    Not all mutations are beneficial to the species. Then again mutation is only one small part of the evolutionary process. Read "The Panda's Thumb" by Steven Jay Gould for this specific subject.

    Anyways I'm trotting in to put up my vote for evolution. Nobody is ever going to convince me otherwise, and frankly I don't feel like trying to convince anyone anymore. This is the most insane debate of all time and I have wasted many hours of my life trying to convince people who believe the earth is only 6,000 years old otherwise. I give up already.

  2. #22
    King of Cool wouter999's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mx_kid
    um... that doesnt answer seeing in colour, tasting etc.. everyone has these abilities that are not essential to life

    yeah visionray, Im with you - outta here
    Now now - don't these abilities (taste, colour vision) in fact give the human race (and all the other creatures with colour vision) a big edge? For instance, what if I were hunting a bright red pray on a bright green background? Colour vision defines the two clearly, whilst black and white would make them both dark grey.
    hello.

  3. #23
    curmudgeon swampy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Visionray
    Exactly.
    Not all mutations are beneficial to the species. Then again mutation is only one small part of the evolutionary process. Read "The Panda's Thumb" by Steven Jay Gould for this specific subject.

    Anyways I'm trotting in to put up my vote for evolution. Nobody is ever going to convince me otherwise, and frankly I don't feel like trying to convince anyone anymore. This is the most insane debate of all time and I have wasted many hours of my life trying to convince people who believe the earth is only 6,000 years old otherwise. I give up already.

    sickle cell anemia for one, it has benefits in it's ability to combat malaria, but it's affects are pretty horrendous.
    "They're very much like scruffy pigs to look at, and they've got big, knobbly warts and lumps all over their long, hairy faces. They are very, very ugly indeed..."

  4. #24
    Freelance or Bust thodya's Avatar
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    I find the general acceptance of religion throughout the world to be incredible in itself.

    What if religion were introduced for the first time in this day and age? Imagine for a moment that at this point in human existance there was no prevailing religion, and some guy came down off a mountain saying he had talked to a higher being and gave us rules to live by. We'd think he was nuts.

    The birth of a religion in this day and age would never fly. I think one of the main factors in the success of religion in general was fear, and the generally niavity of the human race as a whole back in the age when things got rolling.

    These days groups pop up with beliefs, that in all honestly are just about as far fetched as any established religion, but instead we call them cults and fanatics. I guess that goes to show the power of tradition.

    Just a few observations

    Back to the topic of thread, I fully believe in evolution. I believe it is the result of an endless chain reaction, a combination of environment, and physical reactions...not guidance from above.

  5. #25
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Originally posted by thodya


    The birth of a religion in this day and age would never fly.
    tell that to tom cruise and john travolta.
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  6. #26
    Freelance or Bust thodya's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar
    tell that to tom cruise and john travolta.
    lol well celebrities don't count, they live in a world of their own anyway

  7. #27
    OffTheHorseCEO RegalKnight's Avatar
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    Heres my input:

    I think that there is a higher being, a deity of some sort. wether its the christian version of God, wether its Allah,Vishnu <--(spelling mistake?) or any other god i have no idea. i dont believe in church simply because of my previous statement. I heard someone accuse muslims of being devils worshipers for worshipping Allah. I told this person," well whos to say they arent right? who's to say were not the ones worshipping a false god and that Allah isnt the true god?" so organized religion i dont believe in. however i believe in evolution to an extent. IMO humans did NOT come from monkey chimps gorrillas etc. I believe the God created cromagnon man or another early form of human as well as many animals. i believe he MAY have caused the "big bang" created dinosaurs and then decided to create humans so He (or She) destroyed dinosaurs. Humans evolved into what we are today and humans IMO are STILL evolving. take allergies, lactose intolerant people, Sickle cell and many other region specific conditions. religion is definitely not something to argue debate or have wars over.
    Martin
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  8. #28
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    that is a great point. as far as xian being the right religion that is impossible to say. i know many people dont understand the muslims and their beliefs but are they wrong, i doubt it. are xians right, i doubt it. if you look at the teachings of jesus and mohammed they are very similiar and existed around the same time. some scholars believe they may be the same person. some thing jesus may have used a different name and/or appearence for the two different groups. islam is not an evil religion. they preach peace and compasion just as jesus did.

    evolution is a part of life. all living things evolve everyday. but did we come from monkeys, who knows. as a comedian once said, "if we evolved from chimps, then why are there still chimps? why didnt they all evolve into people." i think mutation may have something to do with that.

  9. #29
    Didn't do it. japangreg's Avatar
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    That's a common misconception; we didn't evolve from chimps. Chimps and humans evolved from a common ancestor. They took one path, we another. Our genetic patterns are so closely linked that the point of separation in terms of evolution was so recent that we are "cousins".

    For me: evolution. Far to many variations on the theme for me to beleive there is one true design for any creature.

    A little side note on the subject, as I find myself a bit bored. There are many different theories of evolution, the most commonly acepted one being that of a gradual change in the physical characteristics of an organism over a long period of time due to reproductive competition (another common misconseption: it isn't survival of the fittest, it's reproduction of the fittest. You can be a hundred times stronger and faster than me, but if you are sterile or if I can out breed you, I win) There is another that contends that changes occur in sudden fits, sort of a genetic monkey wrench that flies into a gene pool out of the blue in a single generation. This is then spread through competition if it is a benefitial trait.

    As to which of the above I beleive, I go back and forth. There is evidence for the second, but not quite enough to convince me.

    Sorry, long winded, but bored....
    japangreg

  10. #30
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    I remember reading that variences in the amount of cosmic/solar radiation hitting the surface of the earth could account for evolution leaps.
    ONLY RON PAUL AND ALUMINUM FOIL CAN SAVE YOU NOW!
    annoy your politician fairtax.org, a political forum

    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

  11. #31
    Didn't do it. japangreg's Avatar
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    There are also theories about geological shifts, access to new food sources, etc. But some people who have doubts about the relations between such distinct species should keep in mind that evolution isn't always just a matter of a trait being slowly cultivated. Sometimes it explodes.

  12. #32
    Running Plodding & Limping SpockBert's Avatar
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    Originally posted by thodya
    I find the general acceptance of religion throughout the world to be incredible in itself.

    What if religion were introduced for the first time in this day and age? Imagine for a moment that at this point in human existance there was no prevailing religion, and some guy came down off a mountain saying he had talked to a higher being and gave us rules to live by. We'd think he was nuts.
    I think you're spot on mate about the roots of religion. I've always thought that it was a tool to control people by preying on their fears of the afterlife etc.

    This might be valid for the UK people only, but you guys seen "Red Dwarf"? Particularly the one where Kryton the android gets his motivation to work hard because he strongly believes he'll be rewarded in "silicon heaven" when he dies.

    I'm not really a hippy at all but I do agree with the late great John Lennon that without religion the world would be a much better place.

    I think I'm pretty much in the evlution camp, I mean if we were created........pubic hair and nipples on men...you gotta say thats a bad design fault from god

  13. #33
    Pessimistic ebullience evan224's Avatar
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    lol, who would have thought nipples would be used as evidence against creationism!

    E.

  14. #34
    more cowbell DigitalOne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by hurricaneone
    Why can't God be running evolution?

    I agree with Nordberg, about the 4,000 years reference. It's almost like watching a movie made in the 1970s. The star says, 'but we need $25,000!', like that's a whole bunch of cash, where today, the same line would be, 'but we need $500,000!', simply because we need bigger figures to impress.

    When the Bible was compiled, to use 4,000 years was like 'WOW, 4,000 years - do you think that's too much?? Is that believable??', where as we now know that we're talking 4 billion + years (and are still not the center of creation).

    The 4,000 years line is likely to go the same way as Catholics and contraception.

    Bye bye.
    It's a common belief in the Christian Doctrine that the Earth is more than 4,000 years old, now.

  15. #35
    general rule bender Gloomycus's Avatar
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    The church has always had a strong influence on the way people think. For example, for the longest time, the church, and thus people, assumed that the Earth was the centre of the Universe. Along come Newton, Capirnicus and Kepler who used their mathematical approaches to astronomy and based on the data they collected they proved that the Earth was not the centre of the Universe. Err, perhaps I have used the wrong frame of reference there, the Earth is not the centre of our solar system.

    I believe that using science, deductive reasoning, etc that it will be proved once and for all that evolution is the correct answer. We already have a large amount of data to prove it, it just needs to be fitted together properly.

  16. #36
    http://www.flipshark.com flipshark's Avatar
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    I think I have figured out the mystery of the universe, I just can't put it into words quite yet

    No seriously I have my own theory which actually goes both with and against the big bang, and if I'm right I think I could prove the evolution/big bang/planetary accreation/biochemosynthesis theories.

    I just need a few "leaves", a big bag of cheetos, and some grape koolaid.....

  17. #37
    Running Plodding & Limping SpockBert's Avatar
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    see i believe in evolotion up to a point, right from the big band onwards, it all seems to make sense.

    But what puzzles me is if you go backwards to events pre big bang (this will cripple your mind!). My brain just won't let me visualize this:

    Ok try to imagine, no life, no stars, no planets, no solar systems, no galaxies , no universe, no history....nothing has EVER happened....just vast infinite empty nothingness...

    i have to stop here as my mind is about to crash! but makes you think (well me anyway) evolution is cool and everything but what started the whole lot off?....how do you go from nothing to something without a god? I think science only answers it up to a point then it gets stuck.

    this is getting way too heavy now :P
    Last edited by SpockBert; 03-18-2003 at 11:29 PM.

  18. #38
    Zakarus's Tale Developer Zakarus2001's Avatar
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    The reason there still are chimps is due to location. Humans are much more suited for the plains. We stand upright, we evolved this because we moved north out of the jungle/rain forest, and into the plains region. However I watch a lot of Discovery Channel, and I learned from there that we are not the next step in evolution, just a different path of our commom ancestors. I can't remember who said it, but I agree . So I guess that makes me EVOLUTION.

    And of course the arguement of all arguments..
    How did Life start then!? -- Christian end all statement
    Who created God then!? -- Evolutionist end all statement

    At least that is how it always happens when my friends and I are talking about it

    ~Zakarus2001
    "Come human relieve yourself of the ignorance society has placed on your head" ~Zakarus 24:7

  19. #39
    Didn't do it. japangreg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Zakarus2001
    However I watch a lot of Discovery Channel, and I learned from there that we are not the next step in evolution, just a different path of our commom ancestors.
    Another common misconception; humans aren't 'more evolved' than other species. If you are alive today, you are doing just as well in terms of evolution as any other organism. Glad to see that the Discovery Channel gets this right.

  20. #40
    Freelance or Bust thodya's Avatar
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    Originally posted by SpockBert
    Ok try to imagine, no life, no stars, no planets, no solar systems, no galaxies , no universe, no history....nothing has EVER happened....just vast infinite empty nothingness...
    Ah, but you see I don't think this is the case. Many believe that the universe expands and contracts, and that in X number of years it will collapse on itself, and start the cycle again.

    I think we're niave to believe that we're the product of the first cycle of the universe. I believe the universe is infinite, and it's cycles are infinite. I think this "version" of the universe is one in an infinite strand of "versions" and in X years the universe will collapse again (The Big Bang), and the cycle will start again.

    Ponder that for a minute.

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