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Thread: Take me under your wing

  1. #1
    Head Child n-gen's Avatar
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    Take me under your wing

    hi guys,

    im 15 and have been using flash, dreamweaver, vb and corel for 5 of those years i have also been using photoshop for a year now. im very interseted in computing and web development in particular.

    my coding abilities are limited in web lanuages apart from some actionscripting. but i am qualified in levels 1,2 and 3 of city and guilds visual basic soon to be completing 4 ( 5 being the highest level achievable). hopefull this shows that i have the right attitude and mind for coding and so could be taught.

    i have found that the best way to improve my web design skills is to work practically and so i have made many sites for family and friends.

    to improve my skills further i am looking for an unpaid position in a web design firm over a few weeks in the summer. even if its to make coffee and dust your moniters i dont mind i just want to be around designers and pick up practical tips from them about what they do.

    i live in london, england so any company would have to be based there ( preferably in the north of london) .

    i would greatly appreciate any responses from companys based in london. if you have any other questions just post them here and the answers will be up within 12 hours.

    think of it this way your getting a free slave for a couple of weeks.

    thanks in advanced

    elliott
    freshly squeezed media

  2. #2
    Head Child n-gen's Avatar
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    sorry for the spelling.

    lucky spelling and web design skills aren't connected or i would be in a lot of trouble.
    freshly squeezed media

  3. #3
    One day older, one day wiser rafiki55's Avatar
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    This may be a boardroom topic..but here’s my take.

    Unfortunately it seems internships are pretty scarce and companies that offer them and browse this board are even rarer.

    If you are serious about finding a position, I suggest going to local design firms with your CV and resume. But be fore warned that it probably won’t be easy. It’s worth a shot though.

    The best way to get some experience is to get out there and do it. As a young aspiring designer/programmer as well, I’ve try to get out there and it’s been a huge learning experience.

    Do some sites for people you don’t know. Volunteer your services to a local charity. This experience will be different from doing a site for a friend/family. If you get a job doing something for a charity/local business, take it very seriously. When you meet with them be professional, dress appropriately, and do all the formalities (contracts, invoices, etc).

    Really the best way to learn is to just go out there and learn from experience. You don’t need some firm to do it, you’ve got everything you need. And if you’re ever in doubt or need help, the people of the Boardroom are VERY helpful.

    In short: just get out there and just do it.

    -Robert

  4. #4

  5. #5
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
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    How very e.e.cummings of you, n-gen.

    Not one capital letter in the whole post.

    Stand by for emergency synapse rerouting

  6. #6
    COWBOY UP EllisStudios's Avatar
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    do you do laundry?

  7. #7
    Senior Member MG315's Avatar
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    I know just what you mean. I was in a similar situation. The best thing to do IMO is to get an internship. Yes, you can learn from tutorials or book, but learning it from a real person in a real situation is much better. I learned more about print design the first day of my internship than I think I would have ever learned from a book. Like if you have a question as to why something is done some way, he would show you. For example, I didn't really understand why they used CMYK instead of RGB and i didnt get spot colors. So he took me back to the printing room (not just a few cannons, those huge printers) and showed me how they print things with CMYK and spot colors.


    lil off topic but a while ago i made a topic about getting an internship. Well I posted that I got one at logic designs. I called them like 3 months in advance, then 1 month before i would be starting just to make sure. Well the first week of summer i was on vacation (didnt want to have vacation durin my work) so when I got back I called logic to see when I should start. They said "we're sorry but we're looking for someone with more illustrating skills." so i took out the yellow pages (3 of em) and called everyone under "graphic design" for an internship. after calling about 40 people, i had about 5 maybes/call back tomorrow, and then when I got to the last number in the last yellow page it was Speed Printing and Graphic Design. I called them and they said "we were planning on having some other person intern but they never showed up. if we cant find them i'll call you back and we'll discuss the details." then a few hours later he called back and now i have a job. It is unpaid but after spending a whole day calling everyone involved in graphic design and seeing how bare the market is, i was glad to get that. And since i'm workin for free, my parents are paying my gas and car insurance and i only work part time so i can freelance on the side too
    Bill Erickson: resume | portfolio
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    Great Designs for $100

  8. #8
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
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    I think that people should stop using 'intern' and go back to the good old 'apprentice'.

    Usage -

    'Come hither, apprentice, and I shall show ye how to verily optimize your images for use on hither internet'.

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  9. #9
    default user juxtaflo's Avatar
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    lol. Can someone clear up this CV thing? What is a CV? I am guessing it is similar or equal to a resume. Is it a European thing? What does CV stand for?

  10. #10
    Senior Member RazoRmedia's Avatar
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    now get back up the chimneys and if you come down before they're spotless I'll put pins in your feet.

    n-gen, why not contact firms local to you and offer to make tea / clean up. Some are reluctant to take on young people. Tell them its for a school project and you may get a better response (its only a white lie Scott, don't flame me).

    Companies can benefit from you as well as you benefiting from them, as a young person, you are more in touch with how young people think / feel / buy etc. You can give opinions from a different perspective to people in the company, use this fact to sell yourself, especially to anyone building sites / applications aimed at teens or kids.

    Anyway, good luck, keep us posted.
    Living the dream

  11. #11
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
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    Originally posted by juxtaflo
    lol. Can someone clear up this CV thing? What is a CV? I am guessing it is similar or equal to a resume. Is it a European thing? What does CV stand for?
    Curriculum Vitae. I think it's something like true history, but my Latin lessons are a long time ago now. It is, as you rightly thought juxta, just a resume, but while a resume is typically just one page, a CV can go as many pages as necessary.
    Stand by for emergency synapse rerouting

  12. #12
    Flashkit Witch Azaraelle's Avatar
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    I think you are doing things in the best possible way. We take interns over the University holidays... but we are all the way over in South Africa

    Keep going the way you are and you'll get far.

  13. #13
    Head Child n-gen's Avatar
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    thanks guys this stuff is really helpfull,

    but if there anyone based in london who can give me an unpaiud possition. its a worker for free. what more can someone ask for.

    can i pay you?



    i would really appreciate this summer job if anyone can help
    freshly squeezed media

  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    Originally posted by hurricaneone
    Curriculum Vitae. I think it's something like true history, but my Latin lessons are a long time ago now. It is, as you rightly thought juxta, just a resume, but while a resume is typically just one page, a CV can go as many pages as necessary.
    I think it's something like curriculum of life... what you've done... Been a long time since I took Latin, but I definatly know vitae is life... I've got aqua vitae tatood on my left arm (the alchmical symbol) which is "water of life"...

    Or distilled alcohol - the stuff that made all them dark ages people so impressed...

    As far as the job search part of this thread, my night job is printing stuff (docutechs, 2060's) and I've always found that just tailoring your resume to the people that will be looking at it works well. I don't think I'd ever work as an intern... but the job experience is MUCH better than what you get in school - I've had to fix a lot of problems from students, just because they didn't know what the print place actually needed, or how to package their files for the print shops. But every time that I needed a job, I did open the yellow pages - there weren't enough people advertising in the paper, and everything in the paper had a LOT of competition. If you just pick up the yellow pages, you probably have a better chance - they might need somebody, but haven't posted externaly yet, or maybe they weren't sure that they needed somebody but were looking to replace somebody that's not public yet... I got a lot more callbacks last time that I was looking for a job from the yellow pages then I got from the people that were advertising.

    This might end up better for you... most internships are unpaid... most jobs are paid, and offer better experience.

    If you have skills, get yourself a job- skip the intern process. You'd probably do better in school too, because you'd know what actually needs to be done on the jobs you set up. Your teachers will know that, as will your future clients.

    I guess the long and short is :

    1) go for a real job instead of an internship
    2) dont't market yourself as a slave - market yourself as a knowledgeable person... slaves don't get the fun jobs...
    3 yeah, spelling may not be much of an issue for a web designer, but you should definatly get better at your spelling and typing if you're not catching your typos- about 75% of the time that I have a script that doesn't work, it's because I spelled something wrong... Doesn't mean you need to know a bunch of words and how to spell them, but make sure that if you misspell them, you mispell them everywhere in your site.
    Jeremy Werst
    jeremy@rockstar-design.com

  15. #15
    Senior Member MG315's Avatar
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    i'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. while jobs are better, if you are looking for something to do over the summer and you have no real degrees, an internship is best. If you do find a job at a print studio, you'll probably be the guy stackin and cutting the paper. but as an intern - especially unpaid - you can request to work with the person doing what you would like to do and the company most likely wont mind much. Also working in a print studio for free has its perks. I print out anything i need for free (contracts, forms, proofs, and other things for when i'm freelancing), I get free business cards that I design myself (they said I can use 4-color, best stock, whatever I wanted but right now I'm using 2 spot color on best stock) and I get web design jobs. Since they only do print design, when someone comes in requesting a website they redirect that person to me. In two weeks of working there I have 5 website jobs lined up, one being the actual studios site since they dont have one yet.


    I'm 16 and when I looked at the market looking for a job, i saw two paths. I could do what most people are doing - working at mc donalds, being a lifeguard...the usual teenager job that gives one no experience later in life other than the fact that you want to do a job better than that - or I could do what I am doing now. If I worked as a lifeguard, I'd need to pay my own gas and car insurance which would probably take most if not all my paycheck. But now that I work for free, my parents pay gas and insurance because they are glad I found a job that will help me rather than just going for the money. And since I work part time, I freelance in the morning and night so I can make some money that way. This job is a great source of freelance jobs, builds up my portfolio, and just gives me more experience in the design industry.



    Now if you actually have a degree or some sort of higher education its different. If i get a masters in design I wouldnt want to be an intern. It just depends on your situation. It's worked out great for me but might not be great for others.
    Bill Erickson: resume | portfolio
    1 | 2 | 3 | 4
    Great Designs for $100

  16. #16
    Senior Member
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    Originally posted by MG315
    i'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. while jobs are better, if you are looking for something to do over the summer and you have no real degrees, an internship is best. If you do find a job at a print studio, you'll probably be the guy stackin and cutting the paper. but as an intern - especially unpaid - you can request to work with the person doing what you would like to do and the company most likely wont mind much.
    You can also work with people that know the job that you want to do if you just request to work in that department...
    [B]Also working in a print studio for free has its perks. I print out anything i need for free (contracts, forms, proofs, and other things for when i'm freelancing), I get free business cards that I design myself (they said I can use 4-color, best stock, whatever I wanted but right now I'm using 2 spot color on best stock) and I get web design jobs. Since they only do print design, when someone comes in requesting a website they redirect that person to me. In two weeks of working there I have 5 website jobs lined up, one being the actual studios site since they dont have one yet.[b]
    Do you think that doesn't happen when you have a real job there? That's one of the main reasons I work in printing - I hate reading manuals on my screen... so I print them. No-one ever says anything. I've also done bus cards for my brother and artist's portfolio cards for my mom... no-one cared... this is standard in the industry...


    I'm 16 and when I looked at the market looking for a job, i saw two paths. I could do what most people are doing - working at mc donalds, being a lifeguard...the usual teenager job that gives one no experience later in life other than the fact that you want to do a job better than that - or I could do what I am doing now. If I worked as a lifeguard, I'd need to pay my own gas and car insurance which would probably take most if not all my paycheck. But now that I work for free, my parents pay gas and insurance because they are glad I found a job that will help me rather than just going for the money. And since I work part time, I freelance in the morning and night so I can make some money that way. This job is a great source of freelance jobs, builds up my portfolio, and just gives me more experience in the design industry.
    I'm 27, and I was nowhere near as motivated or knowledgable as you aree at 16... congrats... I went to school for two semesters after dropping out of high school and losing a couple of scholarships... but after I dropped out I learned everything that I needed to know by getting a job doing what I wanted to do (first Kinkos, who had a training program in HTML that started me on the web stuff) then AlphaGraphics that made me want something better... then another then another and then where I am now.

    The thing is that what taught me how to deal with what you actually get from your clients was the time at Kinkos - it was third shift, with no-one to get answers from... you have to figure it out or the jog is late... and it's that mentality - do it now, don't sit around and worry about the placement of this text box or that image isn't linked- you fix it.. basically it's the down and dirty parts that I don't think that you get from internships. Maybe it's just the people going through the schools out here...

    At any rate, I left that world awhile ago - now I make web pages on the side and work for places where I don't have to deal with students or interns at all... the place I'm working at now, everything that I print goes through a lawyer before I print it...


    Now if you actually have a degree or some sort of higher education its different. If i get a masters in design I wouldnt want to be an intern. It just depends on your situation. It's worked out great for me but might not be great for others.
    I have no degree - but I still find jobs doing what I want to do, mainly based on what I've shown that I can do. If you can do web design, then show your skills there, then if you show them, a client will be interested. They don't really care where you went to school. But like I said, I haven't gone through school then internships and stuff, so maybe people will respond to that. None of my clients have ever asked for either a resume or a degree - they just wanted to see what I could do.

    Not wanting to hijack this thread- I know the respose is pretty long - if anyone is pissed at my response, please email me at jwerst@hotmail.com
    Jeremy Werst
    jeremy@rockstar-design.com

  17. #17
    Head Child n-gen's Avatar
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    i didnt expect this,

    guys im 15

    i want a summer job

    im doing my GCSE's

    im not leaving school for some lame job i find in the yellow pages

    its pocket money.


    and finally this is just a part of my life. by the time i get to working age i dont even know if i want to be a web designer or even have anything to do with I.T.

    from the sounds of these posts it sounds harsh, with no so great salarys either.

    this has made me a little confused

    thanks guys
    freshly squeezed media

  18. #18
    Head Child n-gen's Avatar
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    ohh dear,

    that thought was not fun


    if im not in I.T. what will i do for a job

    nothing particularly stands out

    oh ****

    im gonna call my counselor
    freshly squeezed media

  19. #19
    general rule bender Gloomycus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by n-gen
    i didnt expect this,

    guys im 15

    i want a summer job

    im doing my GCSE's

    im not leaving school for some lame job i find in the yellow pages

    its pocket money.


    and finally this is just a part of my life. by the time i get to working age i dont even know if i want to be a web designer or even have anything to do with I.T.

    from the sounds of these posts it sounds harsh, with no so great salarys either.

    this has made me a little confused

    thanks guys
    If you want a summer job go work for ****ing mcdonalds or something.

  20. #20
    FK's Woman Chess Grand Master Seldudet's Avatar
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    If you want a summer job go work for ****ing mcdonalds or something.
    What kind of comment is that Gloomycus? I think u need to remember that wise old cliche...if you don't have anything nice to say, don't open your gob!!lol

    Anyways n-gen,
    send letters around to co.s applying for "work experience" since you don't know whether you'll be doing this stuff in 10 years, then you can get it for a week and see if you like the enviroment etc. Some of the dudes here are right in saying that a webdesign company is unlikely to be browsing here looking for people like you, you gotta find em yourself! Tell them what you like doing/what you are planning to do in in uni etc, what you hope to gain and possibly what they may gain from you being there etc. Also after you have your results in late aug, put your grades for each subject in your CV. The reason is cuz everyone could get 10 E's, you want them to see you are brighter than that, they'll assume you got awful marks if you don't put em on.
    I think you should spend your free time building a good portfolio though, once you have that firms will be more interested.
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