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Thread: This'll keep you busy :)

  1. #1
    Senior Member Jamez Brown's Avatar
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    This'll keep you busy :)

    http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html#preface

    Not sure if it's been posted or not, but it's a GREAT read. may take a few hours though

    It has actually persuaded me to believe it
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  2. #2
    New Wave Visionray's Avatar
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    Re: This'll keep you busy :)

    Originally posted by Jamez Brown

    It has actually persuaded me to believe it

    Then I have a boat to sell you down by the river...

  3. #3
    more cowbell DigitalOne's Avatar
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    Although some of his arguments are valid, I just don't believe it.

  4. #4
    Juvenile Delinquent CVO Chris's Avatar
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    It could be true and it may not be. The truth will come out eventually. Just don't be so quick to brush it off. It has some good points and to ignore every possibility other than what was originally believed would be incredibly naive of anyone.

    $0.02

  5. #5
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    Would someone care to bullet point the article for me...

  6. #6
    curmudgeon swampy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by gSOLO_01
    Would someone care to bullet point the article for me...
    - large
    - document
    - containing
    - conspiracy
    - theory and/or theories
    "They're very much like scruffy pigs to look at, and they've got big, knobbly warts and lumps all over their long, hairy faces. They are very, very ugly indeed..."

  7. #7
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
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    Interesting and it really makes you think.

    Fredi
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  8. #8
    Juvenile Delinquent CVO Chris's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Subway
    Interesting and it really makes you think.
    A first for some people, I'm sure

  9. #9
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
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    Originally posted by gSOLO_01
    Would someone care to bullet point the article for me...



    There are some who wish to dismiss this webpage as 'conspiracy stuff', and pour scorn upon its author. Such people never offer answers to the following questions. As Gore Vidal has recently stated (The Enemy Within), "Apparently 'conspiracy stuff' is now shorthand for unspeakable truth."

    • In view of the $30 billion given annually to the FBI, the CIA and other U.S. "intelligence" agencies, why were these agencies completely unaware (or so they say) of this conspiracy before they saw its results on CNN? And why has this (apparent) incompetence been rewarded with yet more billions?
    • The four AA and UA jets took off with an average occupancy rate of 27%. That four airliners from major airlines leaving from the East Coast around 9 a.m. on a weekday for the West Coast would all have such low occupancy rates is highly unlikely. Was the booking system tampered with in order to ensure such low occupancy rates (so that the passengers from all four planes could eventually be loaded onto UA Flight 93 for elimination)?
    • Why would hijackers intending to crash planes into the WTC hijack jets taking off from Boston rather than from someplace closer such as JFK Airport in New York?
    • Why would hijackers intending to crash a plane into the Pentagon hijack a jet from Dulles Airport near Washington DC (and thus close to the Pentagon) and allow it to fly for 40 minutes away from its target before turning around and flying another 40 minutes back to it (knowing that interception by military jets during this time would in normal circumstances have been very likely)?
    • AA Flight 77 (the jet which allegedly crashed into the Pentagon) was allegedly hijacked at about 9 a.m., at about the same time as the Twin Tower impacts, and its change of course back toward Washington, or its transponder having been turned off, would have been known to flight controllers, who were aware of the impacts; why, then, were U.S. Air Force jets not scrambled to intercept AA Flight 77 forty minutes before it (allegedly) hit the Pentagon, when there were U.S. Air Force jets at seven locations normally ready to take off at ten minutes' notice?
    • Why are the FAA, the FBI, the CIA and the NSA refusing to release any transcripts of communications from the four doomed Boeings on September 11th or any records at all relating to signals of any form transmitted by those jets?
    • Where are the black boxes (the flight data recorders and the cockpit voice recorders) from all four jets? These black boxes are designed to survive any crash. Have they been examined by experts from the National Transportation Safety Board, the agency which normally investigates airplane crashes? If not, why not?
      In particular, what is on the FDR and the CVR from UA Flight 93, the jet which crashed in Pennsylvania? Why, exactly, did this jet crash? Was it shot down?
    • "Workers at Indian Lake Marina [six miles from the place where UA Flight 93 crashed] said that they saw a cloud of confetti-like debris descend on the lake and nearby farms minutes after hearing the explosion that signaled the crash [or the attack on the jet] at 10:06 a.m. Tuesday." (Pittsburg Post Gazette, Sept. 13, 2001) If this plane was not shot down, but rather remained intact until hitting the ground, how could this debris travel the six miles from the crash site to Indian Lake in minutes when there was only a 10 mph wind blowing? (For wind-borne debris to travel six miles in, say, six minutes requires a 60 mph wind.)
    • Were the conversations between the pilots of the other three hijacked planes and air traffic controllers recorded? If so, what did those pilots say? Were those recordings siezed by the FBI? Were (alleged) transcripts given by the FBI to the mainstream media? Were those transcripts fabricated to provide false evidence in support of the "Arab hijackers" story?
    • Does the Fireman's Video show that the plane which hit the North Tower did not have engines attached to the wings and thus was not a Boeing 767? Does it reveal that missiles were fired from this plane just before it hit?
    • Since no public TV cameras were trained on the North Tower at the time of impact, what was the source of the transmission of the North Tower impact which George W. Bush says he saw before he went into the classroom in Florida? Why did he do nothing (except continue listening to a little girl's story about a goat) for half an hour after he was informed that the second jet hit the South Tower (and that America was "under attack")? Did Bush have prior knowledge of the WTC attack?
    • Considering that all persons on board all four planes died, how did the FBI come up so quickly with a list of names of the alleged nineteen Arab hijackers including aliases used by fourteen of them, in some cases seven aliases (see the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 2001-09-27)? Why were there no Arab names on the passenger lists at all? Did the FBI prepare in advance a list of the names (and aliases) of the (alleged) "Arab hijackers" on those flights?
    • Why did the South Tower collapse first, 56 minutes after it was hit, rather than the North Tower (which was hit first and collapsed 1 hour and 44 minutes after being hit), even though the fire in the North Tower (the alleged cause of the collapse) was more intense?
    • If the outer perimeter walls of the Twin Towers were connected to the central cores only by lightweight trusses, how was wind load on the towers transmitted to the central core (as it must have been because the floors did not buckle in a strong wind)?
    • What exactly was the nature of the structural connections between the outer perimeter wall and the central core of the two towers? Is it not false that this consisted only of lightweight flimsy trusses? Is it not the case that the connection was actually made with 32,000 tons of steel beams?
    • Why are the architect's plans of the Twin Towers not publicly available?
    • Would jet fuel burning in an enclosed space (with little oxygen available for combustion) actually produce temperatures high enough (1538C, i.e. 2800F) to melt massive steel beams (and all the steel beams, since steel conducts heat efficiently) enclosed in concrete in just 56 minutes? If so, wouldn't the Twin Towers have buckled and bent, and toppled over onto the surrounding buildings in the Lower Manhattan financial district, rather than collapsing neatly upon themselves in the manner of a controlled demolition?
    • Were the Twin Towers re-engineered in the mid-1990s to make possible a collapse-on-demand if that were judged necessary? Was FEMA aware of this? Do blueprints of the Twin Towers in the possession of the past owners reveal any evidence of this?
    • Why were such huge quantities of ash and dust produced? How could fire convert concrete into dust? Has the ash been chemically analysed to determine what it really is and how it might have been produced?
    • Were any tests done on the debris for the presence of radioactivity?
    • Is it not the case that the Twin Towers collapsed, not because of airliner impacts and fires, but because they were expertly demolished (even though we do not yet know exactly how this was accomplished)?
      Who stood to benefit from the complete destruction of the Twin Towers?
    • What was the actual size of the entrance hole made by the object which hit the Pentagon? Is it not the case that photographic evidence reveals that it was in fact at most just a few meters in diameter, much too small to have been made by a Boeing 757 jet, but just the right size for a missile?
    • Why were no aircraft fragments, identifiable as coming from a Boeing 757, recovered from the Pentagon crash site?
    • Why were no remains of the approximately sixty passengers and crew on the jet which allegedly hit the Pentagon returned to relatives for burial?
    • Why was the debris from the collapsed Twin Towers removed from the site with no forensic examination? Why was almost all of it sold to scrap merchants and shipped abroad where it would not be available for scientific examination?
    • In September the Securities and Exchange Commission initiated an inquiry to establish who benefited from the unusually high numbers of put options purchased prior to September 11 for shares in companies whose stock prices subsequently plummeted, on the supposition that whoever was behind the hijacking was also behind most of the purchases of these put options. Why has this inquiry stalled? Why have those who benefited from the purchases of these put options not been identified (or at least, not publicly)?
    • Is it not the case that this atrocity was planned and carried out by elements at high levels of command in the U.S. Air Force, the CIA, the Justice Department and FEMA (possibly with the involvement of well-placed civilians outside the government), acting under orders from, or with the approval of, high officials within the U.S. Administration, and that those same elements are now directing a propaganda campaign against the American people to justify a war of aggression in Asia and the Middle East aimed at controlling the oil and mineral wealth of those regions?
    • Why is the U.S. mainstream media ignoring questions like these?
    that ok for ya ?
    Living the dream

  10. #10
    Juvenile Delinquent CVO Chris's Avatar
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    Just remember seeing on the news last night how President Bush wants americans to have immunity from the ICC (International Criminal Court). So now we have a law for the whole world except for Americans (they're above it). They've punished countries who wouldn't grant them immunity from the ICC (They took $5 million of aid from Columbia for example).

    Why?

    What happened to his pre-election promise to improve America's relations with the rest of the world? They had the whole democratic world behind them on Sept 11 and threw that sympathy away. Not the fault of the american people ofcourse, but their "elected"(?) government.
    Last edited by CVO Chris; 07-02-2003 at 09:50 AM.

  11. #11
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
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    After reading all that stuff ... if it's true (and I really start to believe it), then the Bush aministration is the biggest evil thing since Adolf Hitler.

    My own country is right now acting against the US as we don't want to accept the laws they want to have in our country so they can spy on us. (Passenger lists and more)

    Of course they want mmunity as if this is really true and can be proven, then they will be the first to go into the international curt.

    Fredi
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  12. #12
    Juvenile Delinquent CVO Chris's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Subway
    My own country is right now acting against the US as we don't want to accept the laws they want to have in our country so they can spy on us. (Passenger lists and more)
    I hope Tony Blair goes to court too. And Alistair Cambell. They've lied to the UK electors and are as corrupt as politicians get. Think I'll emigrate to your country Sub

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by RazoRmedia
    that ok for ya ?
    swampy's post was sufficient, thanks

  14. #14
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CVO Chris
    Think I'll emigrate to your country Sub
    Your always welcome.

    Fredi
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Subway
    if it's true (and I really start to believe it), then the Bush aministration is the biggest evil thing since Adolf Hitler.
    Interesting comparison.

  16. #16
    Juvenile Delinquent CVO Chris's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bones12484
    Interesting comparison.
    IF it were true, what would you compare it to?
    Last edited by CVO Chris; 07-02-2003 at 11:05 AM.

  17. #17
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CVO Chris
    IF it were true, what would you compare it to?
    Yeah, that would interest me, too. Adolf is still the biggest of them evils, but is there a person between that did something more evil?

    Fredi
    Mind Share Projects [ <- my latest projects ] [ my splash page -> ] Fredi Bach
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  18. #18
    New Wave Visionray's Avatar
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    The thing that sticks out in my mind as the most rediculous in this article is the implication that Ted Olson is somehow involved in this conspiracy. Barbara Olson was the reporter who called her husband from the flight that crashed into the Pentagon. Supposedly Ted Olson made that entire phone call up, as of course he was involved in the whole CIA plot and for some reason wanted to help create a massive lie to the whole world at the expense of his wife's death. Um...yea.

  19. #19
    In view of the $30 billion given annually to the FBI, the CIA and other U.S. "intelligence" agencies, why were these agencies completely unaware (or so they say) of this conspiracy before they saw its results on CNN?

    There are a lot of things going on in the world. Many informants/sources and the like gather so much information that it's difficult to sort out in a short period of time. The clues were there, but the pieces didn't fit together in time. (And it's not like the people responsible for 9/11 tried to keep it under wraps)

    And why has this (apparent) incompetence been rewarded with yet more billions?

    Bush is a dick


    The four AA and UA jets took off with an average occupancy rate of 27%. That four airliners from major airlines leaving from the East Coast around 9 a.m. on a weekday for the West Coast would all have such low occupancy rates is highly unlikely. Was the booking system tampered with in order to ensure such low occupancy rates (so that the passengers from all four planes could eventually be loaded onto UA Flight 93 for elimination)?

    I ould not find a source of information that lists the average occupancy rates of airplanes at 9:00 AM. Since one isn't provided in the article to support the claim, then this should be ignored.

    Why would hijackers intending to crash planes into the WTC hijack jets taking off from Boston rather than from someplace closer such as JFK Airport in New York?

    There is no need to be in New York to take a plane to New York. It may have been that security at JFK was better, or the flight plans and planes did not work out the plan. Raising this question does not support the ideas in the article

    Why would hijackers intending to crash a plane into the Pentagon hijack a jet from Dulles Airport near Washington DC (and thus close to the Pentagon) and allow it to fly for 40 minutes away from its target before turning around and flying another 40 minutes back to it...

    ever hijack a plane, good chance that it's all about timing

    ...(knowing that interception by military jets during this time would in normal circumstances have been very likely)?

    The military would have to know where the plane is and to know that the plane was hijacked. The planes only lost communication, that is not enough to send military planes to intercept it

    AA Flight 77 (the jet which allegedly crashed into the Pentagon) was allegedly hijacked at about 9 a.m., at about the same time as the Twin Tower impacts, and its change of course back toward Washington, or its transponder having been turned off, would have been known to flight controllers, who were aware of the impacts; why, then, were U.S. Air Force jets not scrambled to intercept AA Flight 77 forty minutes before it (allegedly) hit the Pentagon, when there were U.S. Air Force jets at seven locations normally ready to take off at ten minutes' notice?

    again, the air force isn't going to send jets after a plane that merely loses contact, also "its transponder having been turned off" means that you don't know where it is.

    Why are the FAA, the FBI, the CIA and the NSA refusing to release any transcripts of communications from the four doomed Boeings on September 11th or any records at all relating to signals of any form transmitted by those jets?

    Trascript of American Airlines Flight 77. And I'm sure that you could find others

    Where are the black boxes (the flight data recorders and the cockpit voice recorders) from all four jets? These black boxes are designed to survive any crash. Have they been examined by experts from the National Transportation Safety Board, the agency which normally investigates airplane crashes? If not, why not?
    In particular, what is on the FDR and the CVR from UA Flight 93, the jet which crashed in Pennsylvania? Why, exactly, did this jet crash? Was it shot down?


    http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/14_APboxes.html

    Were the conversations between the pilots of the other three hijacked planes and air traffic controllers recorded? If so, what did those pilots say? Were those recordings siezed by the FBI? Were (alleged) transcripts given by the FBI to the mainstream media? Were those transcripts fabricated to provide false evidence in support of the "Arab hijackers" story?

    you already asked this question. And you sure do like the word "alleged"

    Considering that all persons on board all four planes died, how did the FBI come up so quickly with a list of names of the alleged nineteen Arab hijackers including aliases used by fourteen of them, in some cases seven aliases (see the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 2001-09-27)? Why were there no Arab names on the passenger lists at all? Did the FBI prepare in advance a list of the names (and aliases) of the (alleged) "Arab hijackers" on those flights?

    names of terrorists and the aliases used are known by the FBI

    Were the Twin Towers re-engineered in the mid-1990s to make possible a collapse-on-demand if that were judged necessary? Was FEMA aware of this? Do blueprints of the Twin Towers in the possession of the past owners reveal any evidence of this?

    that's idiotic

    Were any tests done on the debris for the presence of radioactivity?

    yes

    Why is the U.S. mainstream media ignoring questions like these?

    beacause they have no evidence supporting them, only loose, distorted facts and lies strung together in a way to make it seem that they have any truth in them.

    I refer all other questions to
    http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm

    If you believe this sort of stuff then you should check out Blood, Money and Greed by Cliff Ford
    it's about how the world and the world's economy is controlled by a few people. My company desinged the cover for this book and did the editing. I was able to read the first edition (published in the late '90s) where he claims that Y2K will be the end of the world and it's all planned by the Money Trust to take control of the world's economy. Unfortunately, in 2000 we had to change that chapter.

    j
    Last edited by yasunobu13; 07-02-2003 at 11:23 AM.

  20. #20
    New Wave Visionray's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Subway
    Yeah, that would interest me, too. Adolf is still the biggest of them evils, but is there a person between that did something more evil?

    Fredi
    Well, have you ever cracked open a history book?
    Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Charles Taylor, Franciso Franco, Marcos, Mobutu Sese Seko, Pinochet, General Suharto, Geraldo Rivera and Dr. Evil are a few that come to mind.

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