Does God Exist??

[SmokeBombShoe]

nice pun.But why are you so aginst God?

[I_am_TheFlasher]

why is everyone? that is the question? God never hurt you , so way hate him? And there is nothing bad in your life the you can blame God for.

[DelvarWorld]

and it is very possible that "nothing" as we define it, could exist. Not only do I believe in God, but multi-universe hyperspace. The best explination I know of for our creation, is another universe collapsed into a gi-normous black hole, which of course has an exit, and all of the black hole's matter forced itself into a point in hyperspace, which then became too dense for itself and began pushing it's limit's out-wards. We're just another universe that was expelled through a worm hole....and of course God gave us life, but that's a different story :P

[Vatcher]

against? i never said that, what keeps me wondering is why people who talk to themselves and have imaginary friends are considered insane, yet people who talk to an unprovable entity are considered holy for praising it...which leaves me to believe, if say that insane man had 10 or so people in the same room that also talked to the same imaginary friend, they would all consider themselves normal

[DelvarWorld]

Originally posted by I_am_TheFlasher
why is everyone? that is the question? God never hurt you , so way hate him? And there is nothing bad in your life the you can blame God for.

Nothing bad we can blame God for? Then tell me Flasher, why do we pray for our illnessed to end?

[DelvarWorld]

Originally posted by Vatcher
against? i never said that, what keeps me wondering is why people who talk to themselves and have imaginary friends are considered insane, yet people who talk to an unprovable entity are considered holy for praising it...which leaves me to believe, if say that insane man had 10 or so people in the same room that also talked to the same imaginary friend, they would all consider themselves normal

Since the birth and life of Jesus is DOCUMENTD FACT, I'd have to say there is a God, and I'm a strong believer.

Factual, documented history, eliminating as many myths as it could, started in 4000 B.C. with the Egyptians. That was 4000 years before the life of Jesus, in which time historical documentation had taken on defined form and was translated between cultures in Europe. The life of Jesus had been recorded by every culture in European times, and it so highly defined the religion of the time that government was based on religion until around the 18th century. I'm pretty sure that He's up there...

[yasunobu13]

First, I'd like to say that I do believe in God. But I'm also a skeptic; I tend to take the opposing side of the argument.

There are a few holes in the argument presented in the article.
He starts by saying that there are only three possibilities

There are but three possible answers to this question: (1) the Universe is eternal; it has always existed and will always exist; (2) the Universe is not eternal; rather, it created itself out of nothing; (3) the Universe is not eternal, and did not create itself out of nothing; rather, it was created by something (or Someone) anterior, and superior, to itself.

He dismisses the first possibility by using the 2nd law of thermodynamics and saying that matter eventually 'breaks down'. This disproves the one theory presented in this category. I don't think that this was enough to disprove this possibility which would mean that these three possibilities are not mutually exclusive as the author would like you to believe. The rest of the article is based soley on the proposition that the universe had a starting point which I don't think was shown well enough to make it seem feasable.

To show that the universe was created he states that there has always been an all knowing mind since matter cannot be eternal. There is no explanation on how a mind can create matter (which is what needs to have happened in order for these theory to be correct). He also keeps repeating the laws of cause and effect to refute anything against his theory, yet he never mentions the cause of an enternal mind. The cases made against eternal matter can not be used to disprove an eternal mind theory since it is stated vaugely.

Another problem that I have with this article is the authors use of language when discussing opposing arguments

No one ever could be convinced that Stonehenge “just happened” by accident, yet atheists and agnostics expect us to believe that this highly ordered, well-designed Universe, and the complicated life it contains, “just happened.”

This reads as though athiests and agnostics believed that the universe just popped into existence one day without any rhyme or reason. He makes opposing views seem as though they shouldn't be considered because they are irrational and inconcievable.

Another instance of this is in this statement

Science is based on observation and reproducibility. But when pressed for the reproducible, empirical data that document their claim of a self-created Universe, scientists and philosophers are at a loss to produce those data.

A poor argument. To prove the theory, the author is asking that a universe as vast and complex as the one we live be created on the spot. Scientists could easily ask the same from the author. Without an observable God that can be produced for the scientists to see, how can they possibly believe the authors point of view. Obviously this statement absurd when viewed from either side of the argument.

In the end, I don't think that it is able to prove the existence of God, and those who seek it by attacking the ideas of the scientific community should know that Science is basically concieving ideas from observation, then attempting to disprove those ideas. God cannot be disproven in those that believe in Him. Science is not trying to kill religion be disproving the existence of God, it is trying to give a sound basis to understand how and why the universe works.

j

[Vatcher]

it is also documented fact somewhere that i was born, i walk the planet, I, like jesus were human, just because someone is documented to live doesn't prove the unprovable friend(supreme entity) he spoke to

[DelvarWorld]

The author of the article also completely ignores the validity of our senses. We could percieve the world entirely wrong, and none of the conclusions we can make are valid.

Go read Sophie's World, it will mess you up worse than Fight Club.

[I_am_TheFlasher]

Originally posted by DelvarWorld
Nothing bad we can blame God for? Then tell me Flasher, why do we pray for our illnessed to end?

you pray so God can heal you, God didn't cause you to be ill.

[DelvarWorld]

well by that logic, if He can heal you then he certainly could have prevented you from being sick in the first place. So is sicknses a punishment of God?

[yasunobu13]

Originally posted by DelvarWorld
well by that logic, if He can heal you then he certainly could have prevented you from being sick in the first place. So is sicknses a punishment of God?

We got kicked out of Eden beacuse we didn't listen to God, it's not His fault, it's ours. The sickness is caused by the world we live in.

j

[FusionJedi]

Originally posted by DelvarWorld
well by that logic, if He can heal you then he certainly could have prevented you from being sick in the first place. So is sicknses a punishment of God?

ALL events that happen are inside God's painting. Evil, then, could be seen as some of the colors of the perfect painting done by the Artist. Does this mean that God takes pleasure in evil and tragedy? Absolutely not! In fact, consider this - the problem of evil and bad things happening is the reason that God had to sacrifice His own Son - thus no one has suffered more at the hands of evil than God Himself.

[DelvarWorld]

hmmm...damnit it'll take me some time to come up with a good reply to that....

EDIT: To both of those last 2 replies

[yasunobu13]

Jedi. Working the metaphors.

I'm off to bed now.

[DelvarWorld]

damn thread kept me up till 3:30 in the morning, g'night you tools.

[SmokeBombShoe]

What this all comes to is Faith, Jedi has it, And its in the almighty.
If you look at the world with the belief that there is nothing more than a day in day out life until you die, How do you wake up in the morning?

[SmokeBombShoe]

I'm going to go pray then go to sleep,See ya.

[I_am_TheFlasher]

good bye mr.Jenkins

[Dr.Funk]

Originally posted by yasunobu13
...In the end, I don't think that it is able to prove the existence of God, and those who seek it by attacking the ideas of the scientific community should know that Science is basically concieving ideas from observation, then attempting to disprove those ideas. God cannot be disproven in those that believe in Him. Science is not trying to kill religion be disproving the existence of God, it is trying to give a sound basis to understand how and why the universe works.

j

wow, you are smart! I actually look at things differently because of what you said!

thx