ripping other sources.

[piny]

a question for the community.

everyone knows that it is possible to rip other movies (swf decompliers).

developers that worked hard on there projects can today be ripped
as a click of a mouse.

as a developer, this bugs me alot.

i have 2 questions:

1. is it possible at all to prevent the ripping by some kind of encription or other methods.

2. because of this problem, i considering going back to
java programing, where the code is realy compiled and secured.

is java secured or can also be ripped?

would be glad to read some comment about this.

piny

[ikaros]

Hi,

Yea, it bothers me too. It looks like there are at the moment no way to prevent other from stealing your hard work.
Have a look at this:
http://www.flashkit.com/board/showth...t&pagenumber=2

ik.

[strille]

It's not possible to prevent the determined ripper, you can just make it a bit harder.

Java is similar to ActionScript in this regard. It is possible to decompile a java class and create a source file.

I wouldn't worry that much. Most people don't get their stuff ripped, and if someone rips a movie you've done, then you can always take comfort in the fact that they will always be one step behind you and never be as skilled as someone who creates stuff themselves. It's actually a great compliment to you in a way. And if you've done something truly great and it's ripped, then many developers will know you did it first anyway by the fact that it's already "famous".

And if you're really concerned that someone will rip your code, make it open source. That way it's impossible to "steal" and you will get much more credit from you peers.

[FPChris]

Plus. I've coded stuff that even if you're looking
at the raw fla it is doughtful you could follow it
without some serious time given to studying what
it actual does. Or the project consists of numerous
files and you'd need to be fimiliar with all of them.

Chris

[TuLpFiCTioN]

but still....(like many people do)...i look at the swf files from nice designed website...and i use that swf decompiler....i don't use it to rip stuff....i use it (sometimes) just to look how they made it....and then i don't even copy the effect...cause thats so fake bah.
but my point....i still see some files that CAN'T be browsed by the decompiler...it sais it's protacted by the author....so there is a way/code...and i wonder what that is..cause i also have it when people just rip stuff.

[argonauta]

Originally posted by piny
is java secured or can also be ripped?

would be glad to read some comment about this.

piny

java can also be ripped. A perfectly secure technology doesn't exist.

Now, for security, i mean, so that no one steals my scripts, i usually do this:

-you can cut a long script in pieces of reusable code an d put it in functions. This functions are spreaded in several parts of the movie (preferably in several swf movies). That way it's a little harder to understand and back-engineer the whole script. And if you put the functions in several swf, that will mean that one movie with not work by itself, if another movie isn't loaded. As decompilers can work with only one swf at a time, it's harder to understand the script. Know you have to be really carfeull with this, cause you don't want to mess with performance just cause you needed some security.

-this is basic: usually people make script quite easy to read. I usually script in several languages (so i put a variable name in english, another in spanish, another in german) (you have to know those languages though ). That way you'll understand the script easilly, but others won't unless they speak all those languages. If you only speak english, you can invent words, and make a dictionary, so when you have to read the script again you'll understand what you wrote.

-this one is for confusing. Try to switch name for variables and functions. For example: setname for getname and getname for setname. That means, setname won't set the name, but get it, and so on. For variables, instead of speed name it gravity, and the gravity variable would be named speed. This causes confussion to the one that is reading the script.

Of course i make all those changes to the finished script (the one to be published), but i always keep the original quite readable.

This isn't too secure, i know, but it causes troubles to the ones reading your script. It'll be harder to rip it and get it to work.

[argonauta]

Originally posted by strille
I wouldn't worry that much. Most people don't get their stuff ripped, and if someone rips a movie you've done, then you can always take comfort in the fact that they will always be one step behind you and never be as skilled as someone who creates stuff themselves.

not true.

I learnt flash and actionscript mostly through the opensource movies here in flashkit.

At first it was kinda hard and true i was way behind a lot of coders and flashers. With time, you learn and learn and get to be innovative, and if you work hard, you may even be better than the ones you learnt from.

That's USUALLY (not always) why students finish knowing more than their teachers, and children are better than their parents, when they grow up.

[rdoyle720]

It's funny, everyone who doesn't want someone looking at their script admits that they looked at other people's scripts to learn! If everyone took your attitude, where would we all be?

There are times when you need to protect your code -- to prevent cheating in a poll or online game, to protect a login system, etc, etc. Most often, you won't need it.

I used to be very much for protecting my code as well. The funny thing is, when I started to become confident in my Actionscript skills, I didn't care anymore. I'm not sure why it is, but I can't talk myself into caring if someone looks at my code.

People who want to learn won't use the code that they look at, because they will want to do it on their own. If they get better than me by looking at my code, so what? I can still compete with most Flash developers out there, and am willing to keep learning more.

The people who will use your code probably won't care enough to learn from it, and in the end will be no better off. Where's the harm there?

Past protecting things that need to be protected (as mentioned above), what is it that makes you so nervous about others seeing your code? Please explain this to me.

[piny]

i think that when it comes to my personal projects i
dont care.

but when you are commited to a client, it is a problem.
for example i have a client who wants me
producing casino games like black jack etc.

the stuff must be of course secured.

my client don't know that flash can be ripped, he wants the games
to be online, not downloaded program.

it involves a lot of money, and i think that
if i will tell him that flash source can be ripped he will
not go on with the project.

on the other hand i canot commit that the games won't be ripped.


in a case like this, we the developers, don't know how to dill.

the problem is not securing the server, this is 100% fullproof.
but if macromedia could come up with
encription algoritem of the swf movies this would have been
perfect.

commercial projects are the real problem.

piny

[TheCaramella]

I don't use decompilers to learn, I like the challenge that lies in trying to figure out what's been done, how it's been solved.
I mean - what's the fun in it if I'm just to FOLLOW other people?
I want to be there first! I want to be THE first!
Decompiling is really bad attitude, but it seems that most people think "I'll just do this, I'm the only one, and I don't do anything wrong, that's the other guys who are bad..."
Wouldn't it be better if everybody tried to invent something, find new ways of combining code, and using the open foras like Flashkit to get the missing links?
A change of attitude would really be a good start, I think.
And of course: before DEcompiling (missed the de- here...), ask the owner politely if it's ok.

[argonauta]

Originally posted by rdoyle720
It's funny, everyone who doesn't want someone looking at their script admits that they looked at other people's scripts to learn! If everyone took your attitude, where would we all be?

There are times when you need to protect your code -- to prevent cheating in a poll or online game, to protect a login system, etc, etc. Most often, you won't need it.

I used to be very much for protecting my code as well. The funny thing is, when I started to become confident in my Actionscript skills, I didn't care anymore. I'm not sure why it is, but I can't talk myself into caring if someone looks at my code.

People who want to learn won't use the code that they look at, because they will want to do it on their own. If they get better than me by looking at my code, so what? I can still compete with most Flash developers out there, and am willing to keep learning more.

The people who will use your code probably won't care enough to learn from it, and in the end will be no better off. Where's the harm there?

Past protecting things that need to be protected (as mentioned above), what is it that makes you so nervous about others seeing your code? Please explain this to me.

there's no such thing as protecting something on the internet. As long as it is there, there will be someone that will be able to hack it. So a secure code doesn't exist.

I believe in opensource. I love opensource cause i believe it helps to evolve and make better software.

However there's a difference between you sharing some code and you not sharing code. I think it's a moral issue. If someone doesn't give me permission to look at some code, i shouldn't be doing it, even if "i do no harm". What's not mine is not mine, i don't see why people think it's "normal" to cheat. I've put some code as opensource, cause i thought people would learn from it, but some i just want it personal (not hidden, just personal, i'm pretty sure that if someone asks me: "how do you this or that? how was that done?" i for sure will share "the secret" and help that guy that asked. If i see someone using my personal code, ripped off, i get angry, cause it's a matter of principles and moral man, you should ask permission, nothing else.....most people will be willing to help and probably give the entire code to you if you ask.

So, at least me, why do i "protect" my scripts? cause if i did one that took me days of hard work, i don't want anybody taking credit of that work. So my point of view is: they don't get anything from me eailly: if they want the script they'll have to work as hard as i did. But if that person that wants my code, asks me, i probably would help.

YOu know, it's not ok to steal, even if it's for learning, even if you do no "harm".

[Ask The Geezer]

I have to agree with everything strille said.

How about putting your code in a .as file and using that? So let them rip the swf, the meat of the code is out of their reach.

[dingoflash]

As far as i can remember where ripper like some work they will rip a good work, no matter what. Mac os x user they are more scary with tools to rip your entire work.

I know one case flash site was ripped right up to its root folders with all the extrenal_mc then all site complete code and actionScript was intact.
"It gave me goose bumps when I saw that !"

[argonauta]

Originally posted by iaskwhy
I have to agree with everything strille said.

How about putting your code in a .as file and using that? So let them rip the swf, the meat of the code is out of their reach.

nop. as files make your life easy as a developer. You have your scripts in as files, so you can use them in different flas, just by including them (#include), but when you publish the movie, all the actionscript gets embedded in your swf file, so the code will still be accesible to rippers

[TheCaramella]

How about putting your code in a .as file and using that? So let them rip the swf, the meat of the code is out of their reach.

Nope, that's not right. When you put your code in an .as-file, Flash compiles the external code into your movie when creating the .swf-file.
So that doesn't help you much when it comes to ripping.
I think the only solution is to send the rippers off to a lonely island, preferably in the arctic zone. An island outside all human communication - there they can practice ripping the birds' navigation systems and how they fly.
Yeah!

[TuLpFiCTioN]

ok...this is what i think.
the most thing you want to protect is your sounds...cause effects in your site is probaly made already by others.
there are so much effects that is a effect that is used by many other people.
like i told befor....sometimes(and that is almost never) i use a decompiler to view stuff from super designed website to give me new ideas...make me look into differend directions...and i aint stealing anything.
what is the first thing you do when you see a very nice designed website....you right click to see if you can zoom into the works right?....is that illigal to?..is that cheating?
didnt rembrand (the painter) had also some rolemodels where he looked up to?
and indeed...if somebody just plane rip your site that sux....and if somebody just ask like hey...how did you made that...can i use that same effect...9 out of 10% you say yeah sure...use it...be my guest.
i beleve in helping people.
but i also beleve in helping myself..so SOMETIMES i zoon into some works...or use a decompiler..and i aint a shamed of it..cause i aint copy ****...like the buttons at http://www.flash4all.de/start.htm ....OMG...they made a new website hahah...kewllllll...looks very nice.
...i took a look at those buttons...i saw the same buttons at http://www.whoswestudios.com/kimpire/splashpage.html
so what do we have to think about this...derbauer copy from whoswe??...or is whoswe copy from derbauer?...two large companies with the same sort effect..i know how to make those buttons....but i aint even want them cause it aint feel good to make them...but it did make me see other possibilties.
but still...nobody can tell me how you REALY can protect your swf...cause i saw some swf files when you try to decompile it it said...protected by the author.
and i got a other question....i downloaded an opensource from flashDB.com.....i realy changed everything....and gave them a link on my website...is that cheap or is that just making use of the opensource?
im dutch bytheway...so don't mind my english error's ((-:

[TheCaramella]

No excuse!
()

[DFWStudios]

Try and rip my site's .swf and you get a neat surprise message upon deparsing of the file.

This tends to reinforce the message that they should not be doing this and includes some very nice comments to pursuade them to stop from going any farther.

Granted, it does not stop the decompiling from happening...but at least you get one final fist in their face and spit on their brow as they are stealing your stuff

[Ask The Geezer]

I wonder how many rippers have been sold?

The bad thing about this argument is that there really are some legitimate uses for them.

It's like guns, the bottom line is, the gun is not evil or bad. It's a piece of metal. So, the ripper is not evil or bad, it's a piece of software.

What it is, is the uses 'people' put the guns or the software to, and that means there is no solution.

Has anyone called Oprah?

[TuLpFiCTioN]

Call to ask Oprah if she uses a decompiler? hehe...my guess is she just hire 2advanced or whoswe and buy some. hehe