Communicating with clients

[emm_eye]

Well... there is this guy... who does all the "talking" and i do all the flash work he gets.... no problem with that... now the last time he contacted me.. he wanted me to make a site... fine.. i made the layout.. mailed it to him... i kept waiting for a reply... never got one.. after a week or so i met him online... i asked if he got my mail.. he says he did.. and he liked it...

ok i went ahead put the thing in flash... and showed him another initial half done site... again no reply... after a few days he calls me up and says the guy doesn't need the site anymore... and he says he'll try convincing him or finding another client whom we could use the same thing for... i say fine...

after a few months he calls me up.. and says he found another client.. but this guy needs a different look for his current site... i say ok... i went through the current site... made an initial assessment.. not really long.. mailed it to him... again no reply... caught him online.. he says he has forwarded everything to the guy and is waiting...well with nothing better to do i made a layout for the new site and mailed it to him..... after a few more days he says this guy doesn't need a new site.. he only needs an intro!!

now is there any part where i have gone wrong... or is it that this guy lacks communication skills??

[sk8Krog]

Well, I'm not so sure about your relationship with the guy who does all the talking for you, but clients do take their dear sweet time on things. I've do a sort of telemarketer thing when we are really close to a deadline and the client is off in la-la-land. I can't blame him for the delays but it seems he has no sales experience, loosing clients like that.

[emm_eye]

well.. both these guys are his colleagues... he meets them everyday...

about my relationship with him..well.. i don't know much about him.. he just landed up liking my site.... i met him only once... after that all talks were only on the phone or through mails....

the thing that really bothers me is.. he doesn't reply back.. i mean atleast a reply saying.. that "recieved mail..all queires will be forwarded to the client"

[jamble]

have you actually addressed your concerns with your client? It seems that would be the first thing to do.

I'd also make sure (as you didn't mention it) that for each piece of work he's giving you, you get a signed contract in which you can agree on terms such as timescales, reponse times etc. You must work with a contract on all jobs, there are so many people here who have been ripped off in the past on similar sounding jobs.

[OddDog]

why are you doing so much work without a signed contract or downpayment ?

[emm_eye]

i've never mentioned response times in contracts.... i think i should be donig that from now.. thanks for the tip...

as for the downpayment... well... its always been work first and money later!! and i don't have any problems in doing it that way!!

[JabezStone]

Pardon me for my ignorance, but it seems that you DO have a problem doing it that way, or you wouldn't have started this thread.
The generally accepted rule of thumb in web development (and all contract work, really) is that a portion of the cost is given as a downpayment before work is done. For small contracts, I require 1/2 up front and for larger contracts, I require 1/3 up front. All of this is predicated on a contract.
If you do not require a downpayment for work done, regardless of whether you have a contract or not (in the end, a contract only helps if you plan to sue a deadbeat, which usually costs more than it's worth to sue) you will continue to get screwed out of your work like you have with these last two "clients". Always get a contract. Always get a downpayment. Always.
If your portfolio is good enough, you will secure work without having to provide a "comp" or "rough" to the client. They will hire you based on your past work and clientelle, and you will begin the design after you have a signed contract and deposit.
Hear me now, and thank me later, if you don't follow this advice, you will find yourself searching the Boardroom for this thread to correct your woes.

[emm_eye]

thanx...

but are clients actually willing to do a downpayment without seeing anything...

i mean.... i have no real thing in my portfolio right now to boast about... do clients trust??

well.. my contracts are basically very simple.. its more like a detailed invoice!! and i don't plan to go about sueing people... i have no legal experience of all those things.. and iam pretty much far (geographically) from the ones who might need me!!

so most of my work is basically done on trust and a small contract which won't serve any purpose other than specifying terms and conditions of work!!

although no one gets to taste the final cookie unless they pay the bills first...

[MG315]

i have a few clients who hired me without ever seeing any of my work, but i'm associated with a company theyve worked with for years. its all about trust.

contracts (at least in my experience) are more for understanding than legal issues (i haven't sued a client yet and havent had a need to). In it you should specify everything so there is no problems later on. scope of project, price, payment plan, dates certain things will be delivered (by developer AND client), point of contact, late fees, source file/copyright information (who gets what), confidentiality, governing law...cover everything that could cause misunderstanding later down the road. most likely, the contract you would have would be one between developer (you) and project manager (partner) and not between you and client. the contract with client woudl be between client and the project manager/single point of contact. but a delay on the clients part is the project managers problem if it delays your production. dont let him say stuff like "he hasn't responded yet". its his responsibility to get everything you need when you need it. thats the point of late fees, incentive for the client (and project manager) to get things done on time.

dont work without contract and downpayment. it insures that the client is for real and you won't waste your time developing. also dont develop the site while youre waiting for him to get back to you on the concept (or even before you know you have the job). it makes you look desperate.

[JabezStone]

Originally posted by MG315
... also dont develop the site while youre waiting for him to get back to you on the concept (or even before you know you have the job). it makes you look desperate.

Good point. Not only does it make you look desperate, it makes you lose money!

And yes, clients are acutally, "willing to do a downpayment without seeing anything". Sort of. They need to see your ability and trustworthiness. They also need to see a contract with both of your signatures on it.

The time you waste developing things that no one is going to pay for could be spent getting some real paying jobs that your "marketing person" doesn't seem aggressive enough to secure.

Anyway, best wishes to you!