US leads production per worker

[Visionray]

Then what are you proposing? Any specific solutions that would make America a wonderful place to live for everyone without sacrificing the free and open society/economy that makes it flourish?


I just don't see what you are getting at. Should we make it a requirement that you can't work more than 8 hours a day? Even if you want to? Force business owners to promote employees regardless of whether or not they really deserve it? Award those who slide by with the bare minimum while those that work harder get the same rewards? Sounds like socialism if you ask me. The U.S. just doesn't work that way, never has and never will.

So what's your solution to this problem? How can we make everyone in the U.S. happy, with a nice and steady income, in which they receive guaranteed rewards by doing the standard, while still keeping our open socitey/economy?

[gerbick]

ok. my thoughts. I can't see why hard work is considered a bad thing. I mean, I work hard, to get ahead, to make sure that I get that month+ off. right?

oh, and to get my senior position to a newer/higher level come next quarter. I see no faults in that. my friend in France works pretty damn hard. Same for my friend in Germany... where the unemployment rate is like 18% in some places - I have one friend in Germany that just lost her job. It's bad.

Anywhoo... I'm not following this thread anymore... not for lack of understanding English, but moreso for not understanding where this convo was going.

[hurricaneone]

Originally posted by Visionray
Then what are you proposing? Any specific solutions that would make America a wonderful place to live for everyone without sacrificing the free and open society/economy that makes it flourish?


I just don't see what you are getting at. Should we make it a requirement that you can't work more than 8 hours a day? Even if you want to? Force business owners to promote employees regardless of whether or not they really deserve it? Award those who slide by with the bare minimum while those that work harder get the same rewards? Sounds like socialism if you ask me. The U.S. just doesn't work that way, never has and never will.

So what's your solution to this problem? How can we make everyone in the U.S. happy, with a nice and steady income, in which they receive guaranteed rewards by doing the standard, while still keeping our open socitey/economy?

You're obviously not getting what I'm trying to say. I do not condone the promotion of people who sit on their thumbs all day long. I do think though, that many people who are quite willing to go the full eight/nine hours, returning good work in the process, get lost in the mill of corporate life and end up leading unrewarding, unfulfilled lives.

What would I suggest? The breakdown of Corporate America would be a good start. The top-end workforce is concentrated in too few companies, left to fight it out with each other for too few places, creating the environment about which I am complaining. Sort of like musical chairs, except that if you lose your chair, you get welfare. Like it or not, mergers may be good for the overall economic outlook of the US GNP, but is sure ain't no great news for the American worker. Will it ever happen? Ha, that'll be the day - NBC decide not to merge with Vivendi for 'the good of the employees'.

If this is not a possibility, I would recommend the withdrawl of federal backing (tax breaks, incentives, peachy contracts) for Fortune 500 companies and instead, the same money should be sunk into the middle ground, opening up more positions for skilled people prepared to do the job and do it well, but still get home in time to see their kids to bed. This, I would hope, could open so many spaces that it would start a turn in the tables, making the employee more valuable than the employer, a situation which is more or less what is happening in London, referring to the almost 0% unemployment.

OK, a socialist enclave it is, I'll admit, but a place where 'the employee' is certainly more appreciated then in the US.

[hurricaneone]

Originally posted by gerbick
Anywhoo... I'm not following this thread anymore... not for lack of understanding English, but moreso for not understanding where this convo was going.

I guess to sum up (for myself as much as anyone) VR reckons that everyone should bust their nuts to get ahead and reap the matching rewards, while I'm saying that it's not necessarily fair to demand people to have 'the killer instinct' simply to be able to afford a decent lifestyle.

But yeah, I think I'm wandering a little off course too.

[gerbick]

hey, I got that killer instinct. trust. I use it to get ahead wherever I can.

and often do.

[hurricaneone]

Originally posted by gerbick
hey, I got that killer instinct.

I don't view it as skill/quality that should be rewarded, but that's just me.

I'm sure that you have many other merits that have enabled you to gain the success which you enjoy, gerbs, and I would like to think it is these that have advanced you more than anything else.

Hey, I ain't no bleeding heart hippy, and I'll always do my best to stand out of the crowd, but I still think that there's a certain ethic that is being broken when people employ the 'killer'.

[gerbick]

I don't belive that mediocrity should be rewarded either. cream of the crop rises to the top. hard workers are indeed rewarded.

and you damn right, I play hard too.

[hurricaneone]

Originally posted by gerbick
I don't belive that mediocrity should be rewarded either.

If you think that I do, then you have me at a disadvantage.

I simply say that between two people who do the same quality of work, but one has the 'killer', it is not always a good thing that the person with the 'killer' gets the promotion (or whatever carrot is being dangled at that point in time).

[Visionray]

Originally posted by hurricaneone

I'm sure that you have many other merits that have enabled you to gain the success which you enjoy, gerbs, and I would like to think it is these that have advanced you more than anything else.

Gerbick has gotten so far in America because he threatens his boss with an automatic machine gun every 6 months. Let's not mention all the blackmail and extortion he uses to get those high priced contracts. It pays to stay ahead and if that means violence, then well that's the American way.

Seriously though, I do see where you are coming from Hurricaneone. I just don't like the idea of the government getting involved in business, and I'm not sure what drawbacks could result from trying to "even out" the economic playing field in the U.S. The GDP or GNP could suffer and eventually the average American citizen would suffer. I think I'm done with this convo though for now as I really should be working on something productive so I can get ahead and become CEO of Nike.

[hurricaneone]

Originally posted by Visionray
I think I'm done with this convo though for now as I really should be working on something productive so I can get ahead and become CEO of Nike.

I'm planning on using the money I saved in my recent federal tax break to pick up Liverpool F.C. next week (just so I can sack the manager, Gerrard Houllier), so I guess I need to concentrate on something more substantial so I can afford get a decent replacement.

Interesting thoughts, though.