My theory: Green isnt Green for everyone!

[flashmonk]

Yeah, but if you go that long way, you can end the discussion, because you're in a spiritual discussion with no end, I think this concept of the world (everything is imagination,because everything finally happens in my brain/mind/soul, is a basic concept of buddhism, solving it by finding a way out is called enlightment)



P.s. Cruise asked from the point of a designer but for a designer my answer is correct,because when we all feel good toward a design it's a good design even if we see colours different.

[Cruise]

Originally posted by Chameleon
The question boils down to we have all defined our colors based on what we see. I know red is like the color of blood, we have blue skies, green grass....
on my crayolas it says red. As a child I see that and say that is red. I have associated red with what my mind sees. But let's just take two colors blue and red. imagine a world in your mind where everything you now see as blue would look red and vice versa. so the sky would look what you now call red.

Problem: as a child you look to the sky and someone says its blue. So you think that is blue. Everything else in the world which is the same color people call blue, so you call it blue. Nobody thinks your messed up but in fact your world has a red sky and such. Would you think it was odd. No. You've always seen it that way. People describe it that way. (They call it blue after all)

Ever wonder why some people think certain colors go well together when they dont. Maybe they do the way they see them.

And as for frequencies, well some people are color blind, which means their eyes/optical nerves/whatever are interpreting the frequencies differently. They dont make as much distinction between some. Why couldn't it be possible to be seeing some differently?

And for the emotions, well we base our emotions on passed experiences. People feel red is a angry color cause it's the color of blood, fire whatever.... Well in example above everything that is red is still called red blood is red (but he is seeing it what you would describe as blue).
We have associations with colors and thus feelings. Those would still be the same.

WOW!!WOW!!WOW!!
I COULDNT EXPLAIN IT BETTER!
Good work Chameleon!

[o0o_LEP_o0o]

Its Just A Color!!! lol, WHOA alot of people went into ALOt of deatial!

[Cruise]

Originally posted by flashmonk
Yeah, but if you go that long way, you can end the discussion, because you're in a spiritual discussion with no end, I think this concept of the world (everything is imagination,because everything finally happens in my brain/mind/soul, is a basic concept of buddhism, solving it by finding a way out is called enlightment)



P.s. Cruise asked from the point of a designer but for a designer my answer is correct,because when we all feel good toward a design it's a good design even if we see colours different.

Uhmm what did i asked?
I gave you my theory to think about it.. and yes .. in some way it has to do something with design..

[RazoRmedia]

I know what ur on about. My whole world could be vioently coloured compared to the way your eyes perceive it.

[Chameleon]

Originally posted by Cruise
WOW!!WOW!!WOW!!
I COULDNT EXPLAIN IT BETTER!
Good work Chameleon!

Thanks. Like I said earlier. I thought of this a dozen or so years ago and everyone thought I was nuts. I'm glad to know that I'm not alone.

And although I did try and answer the frequency issue, I still think there might be something in there which could answer our question. Something to research when I retire years from now.

[DutchDesign]

Originally posted by Cruise

Originally posted by Chameleon
The question boils down to we have all defined our colors based on what we see. I know red is like the color of blood, we have blue skies, green grass....
on my crayolas it says red. As a child I see that and say that is red. I have associated red with what my mind sees. But let's just take two colors blue and red. imagine a world in your mind where everything you now see as blue would look red and vice versa. so the sky would look what you now call red.

Problem: as a child you look to the sky and someone says its blue. So you think that is blue. Everything else in the world which is the same color people call blue, so you call it blue. Nobody thinks your messed up but in fact your world has a red sky and such. Would you think it was odd. No. You've always seen it that way. People describe it that way. (They call it blue after all)

Ever wonder why some people think certain colors go well together when they dont. Maybe they do the way they see them.

And as for frequencies, well some people are color blind, which means their eyes/optical nerves/whatever are interpreting the frequencies differently. They dont make as much distinction between some. Why couldn't it be possible to be seeing some differently?

And for the emotions, well we base our emotions on passed experiences. People feel red is a angry color cause it's the color of blood, fire whatever.... Well in example above everything that is red is still called red blood is red (but he is seeing it what you would describe as blue).
We have associations with colors and thus feelings. Those would still be the same.

WOW!!WOW!!WOW!!
I COULDNT EXPLAIN IT BETTER!
Good work Chameleon!

then why there's so few pink/yellow site-designs ? LOL

[Chameleon]

Simple. All your life you've been told what colors go well together. Besides, I'd be more apt to believe that most of us see the same and afew dont. (lets say the same percentage as color blind people) Then it does exaplin why you come accross some really ugly sites at times but that most people tend to agree on what does look good.

Besides if it is offshifted then it would stand to reason that pink and yellow would offshift to two colors which would contrast about the same to each other and thus still look bad to the person with different vision.

This is all entirely hypothetical of course.
[Edited by Chameleon on 11-09-2000 at 10:52 AM]

[Socrates20]

ever thought about the fact that there are colour blind people, who really see colours different?

[olafurj]

Originally posted by phooka

Is a bit like smells... why some ppl hate the smell of roses? Maybe because they smell **** instead of roses! (Woops excusi the language, prego!)...

Its a bit like every sense man has. That is why whe have psychos, they just see the world very diffently then the average person.

"maybe they couldnt figure out what chicken should taste like, maybe that is why chicken tastes like everything else"

That goes for our brain too.

[Kraken]

Just because we all agree on what color is red doesn't mean our eyes see it the same way.

Now, what if you could see through someone else's eyes? Would you even be able to interpret what you were seeing? Would the colors be so different you wouldn't be able to see?

What about the invisible man? If light cannot pass through the cornea to be focused on his retina, how could he see? And, if his retinas are invisible, how could they react to light? He wouldn't be able to see.

What about dogs. It's been generally agreed upon that dogs see black and white. Do they just see color in a different way? Aren't their eyes capable of seeing color?

hmm...
Rich

[Adasha]

I've mentioned something similar already, but I'll say it again and expand.

I am colour blind. I am not fully colour blind, as I can still distinguish between some colours, but nevertheless I have difficulty telling many hues apart.

I confuse the following:

RED/BROWN/GREEN

BLUE/MAGENTA/PURPLE/MAUVE/VIOLET/(and all other red/blue mixes)

PINK/WHITE

NAVY BLUE/BLACK

YELLOW/LIGHT GREEN

I have greatest difficulty with the above when the saturation and brightness of the hues are closer together. Thus I can still easily tell apart bright or heavily saturated colours such as RED/BLUE/YELLOW.

This affliction, while fortunate in some ways (I will, for example, never be conscripted into any army should the neccessity arise) does hinder design. Most of my sites either use bright, bold colours or are monochromatic. The rest I get help with. I also make use of colour wheels etc. to help choose appropriate combinations (using various colour theories such as complements, triads, tetrads and analogies). I have learned through my life to adapt to the condition and nowadays I do not notice it unless someone has a specific colour problem or request.

Here we need to split the notion of interpreting colours into two distinct areas:

#1: Interpreting colours - this refers to the topic being discussed: do we see colours differently from each other, but because of education still call it the same thing;
#2: Recieving colours - this refers to colourblindness. Whether or not I interpret colours differently, my brain still needs to have a colour signal to interpret in the first place.

Colour blindness affects the colours that I can receive, NOT how I interpret them. Thus if (for example) we could somehow work out that I had been confusing blue for red, this would translate that I actually confused BLUE/MAUVE/VIOLET etc. for RED/GREEN/BROWN. To me each group of colours is the same - but I still had to grow up with people pointing to an object and saying "that is blue".

If that is confusing, let me simplify: I may only see a single colour instead of red, green and brown, but I could well have been interpreting that colour as something different just as could any colour-able person (and there is no way we could ever really find out). The two functions (RECIEVING and INTERPRETING) are entirely seperate functions of the brain.

[Cruise]

Damn.. i totally forgot this discussion!
ITS DAMN GOOD!
Anyone want to add something to it?

[DutchDesign]

so, i guess it's possible that when you eat something it can taste like **** to you but to another person it might be the best they've ever eaten ?

Makes me wonder why there's nobody(exept those japeanese chicks in an mpeg i got on my e-mail last week ) who like's eating poop

[flashmonk]

brbrbr,

why are you doing this? replying to historic threads ?
It's irritating and confusing, I always feel like being thrown back to my lot-of-fk -times because of the e-mailnotification.

[DutchDesign]

i was just sniffing through the old ones, i just couldn't resist. will you ever forgive me? I think it's not irritating at all, plus it gives some of the newer members something to read. I'll try not to make a habit out of it though.

[TheEnigma]

God I think I on;u had about 500posts when this was around!

[upuaut8]

I thought the convo was fascinating. I've expressed similar arguements in the past as well, though I do understand where the frequency mod comes into play. I just would have called it spectrum rather than the newagey term frequency.

The problem with frequency is that it does not solve the riddle of which colors are which. The frequency of a specific color, which to us designers can translate into something like RGB number specifications, only states where a color lays with regards to other colors in the spectrum. If the viewer is misenturpreting (or properly enturpreting) the color, he will still lay it in the same place on the spectrum line up.
It's a good attempt at solving the problem, but it does not exactly cut it.

btw, I'm new here.. just been lurking for a week. Looks like this place is going to be a lot more helpful than Macromedia University has been.
Thanks for the delightful thread Cruise.

[mikeyjhay]

Cruise, i'm with u all the way here.
I've often wondered how everybody knows that they're perception of the world is the same as others. Colours, light, sound etc. Just because we all attach the same word to a certain sensory perception eg. the lower end of the light bandwidth or something doesnt mean we all have the exact same sensory input or the same interpretation of that certain input.

Chameleon was saying some interesting things. The one flaw I reckon in ur original post was that we could all have the same favourite colour but we just call it different names. If you held up three different cards which were red green and blue, although we would all call them red green and blue we might not all see them as what I call red green and blue. ie u might see the 'red' card as what i call yellow. BUT people wouldnt pick the same card as their favourite.

hang on....as i've been typing i think i've realised what u were saying. Let's say everyones favourite colour is what i call 'blue'. Some might pick the blue card as they're favourite. But others may pick the red card as they're favourite because what they're actually seeing is the colour i call blue.

i guess its all in the question. What do u mean when u say everyone has the same favourite colour?
Do u mean the frequency of light particles that hit their eyes?
or do u mean ...............

its too early for a discussion like this! even though its 1.45pm. I'll come back to it later after more coffees!

i think it all comes down to ur definition of the word 'colour'. Is it a fixed external source or is it a variable which is only brought it into being by our witnessing. It really all is 'in the eye of the beholder'.

nice thread Cruise. what were u smokin when u thought this one up? )

[mikeyjhay]

oh and the reason dogs only see in black and white is cos they dont have any cones in their eyes, only rods. Thats about as much as i can remember from my Higher Biology!

also, bats dont really see at all do they? just through radar and sound - dogs see only in black and white - a cyclops wouldnt be able to see in stereo - we see in colour and in stereo.....do u think there is something else out there which is an even better way of seeing than we currently have? any suggestions on what it could be?

ive often wondered if their is another natural force out there which we havent discovered yet along the same lines as gravity (a pretty obvious one ;-), magnetism and electricity. Lets not just get into a Star Wars chat here though eh guys!