FBI: Terrorits Use Maps

[japangreg]

From the AP:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The FBI is warning police nationwide to be alert for people carrying almanacs, cautioning that the popular reference books covering everything from abbreviations to weather trends could be used for terrorist planning.

In a bulletin sent Christmas Eve to about 18,000 police organizations, the FBI said terrorists may use almanacs "to assist with target selection and pre-operational planning."

Any body else think this is getting a bit ridiculous? What really gets me is this:

The FBI noted that use of almanacs or maps may be innocent, "the product of legitimate recreational or commercial activities." But it warned that when combined with suspicious behavior -- such as apparent surveillance -- a person with an almanac "may point to possible terrorist planning."

So they're willing to admit that not everyone who uses an almanac/map should be treated like a terrorist, but when combined with "apparent surveillance" it's a possible plot. Surveillance? Like taking pictures? There are only going to be several million tourists a year who need maps to find their way to landmarks to take pictures. If its any other type of 'surveillance' like casing a building for a few days, I hope the decision to investigate isn't predicated on if they have a map or not.

</rant>

*edit: forgot the URL; silly me!*

[marknovak]

Let me translate this for ya, as I'm sure your politically correct tunnel vision doesn't see through this...

"Look for Arab men with almanacs and cameras"

Its wrong, but necessary

[aversion]

Originally posted by marknovak
"Look for Arab men with almanacs and cameras"

ahh the wonderful world of profiling, how sad.

[Hellsbellboy]

Originally posted by aversion
ahh the wonderful world of profiling, how sad.

it's reality..

[jamble]

Originally posted by marknovak
Let me translate this for ya, as I'm sure your politically correct tunnel vision doesn't see through this...

"Look for Arab men with almanacs and cameras"

Its wrong, but necessary

and I thought your comment about France in the other thread was just a bad joke, no, indeed you are a stupid moron. Perhaps your USMC grunt brain cannot process anything more than what is being fed to you?

You wonder why a growing number of people around the world hate the Americans? You're the prime example of a narrow minded racist American and based on your sweeping use of profiles, are we to assume that you are in fact what every American is like ??

[TallGuyLittleCar]

racial profiling, when used correctly, is extremely effective.

[jamble]

Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar
racial profiling, when used correctly, is extremely effective.

so I'm sure is simply arresting every single person so they cannot commit crimes in the future.

Racial profiling is not an exact science, rather a best guess. Of course it can be used but I think the general concensus is that the US government seem to be making up more and more ridiculous policies as they go along and calling everything a war on terror.

The recent ruling about having air marshalls on flights they deem "risky" but not telling passengers to give them a chance to not fly? Would this be collatoral damage if one of these flights were highjacked and crashed into a tall building?

[Hellsbellboy]

I think u r the one being narrow minded Jamble.. come on, the reason this went out to POLICE Agencies and not the general public is so that, say a cop pulls someone over, notices they have a a Almanac.. well it isn't exactly Mexicans blowing up building here in the US, and it's not the Chinese.. they will probably check them out a bit more thruough then they normally would.. doesn't mean they are going to take them down and throw them in jail just cause they have a Almanac.. It's like when the police put out a APB for a young male in a red jacket.. doesn't mean they are going to arrest all males with red jackets.

[japangreg]

Hey, Jamble, don't feed it. If you've read through his other posts you'd see there's very little that can get through. Best just to leave it.

Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar
racial profiling, when used correctly, is extremely effective.

True, but it is also extremely dangerous. 'Racial Profiling' is just a politically correct term for racism. It's treating people differently based on their race/appearence.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Originally posted by jamble7000
[B]so I'm sure is simply arresting every single person so they cannot commit crimes in the future.

actually that would be impossible considering man hours and resources.

Racial profiling is not an exact science, rather a best guess.

yes and no, Racial profiling has so many different definitions. Alot of people here the term and think it means "all arabs could be terrorists". In truth it means the terrorists are most likely arab.
Of course it can also waste time if you are looking for the wrong person, a worst case would be the d.c. sniper episode in the states. Everbody was looking for white guys in white vans.

Of course it can be used but I think the general concensus is that the US government seem to be making up more and more ridiculous policies as they go along and calling everything a war on terror.

that is an opinion easy to form. But the u.s. governments policies are not always so clear cut. Unless you pore of gov documents you have to rely on the media. The media is far from trustworthy or accurate. Not becuase of some left or right conspiracy, but simple old incompetence.

[japangreg]

Originally posted by Hellsbellboy
I think u r the one being narrow minded Jamble.. come on, the reason this went out to POLICE Agencies and not the general public is so that, say a cop pulls someone over, notices they have a a Almanac.. well it isn't exactly Mexicans blowing up building here in the US, and it's not the Chinese.. they will probably check them out a bit more thruough then they normally would.. doesn't mean they are going to take them down and throw them in jail just cause they have a Almanac.. It's like when the police put out a APB for a young male in a red jacket.. doesn't mean they are going to arrest all males with red jackets.

I doubt the 9-11 hijackers were all carrying almanacs when they borded the planes.

The only other terrorist event I can think of that happened on U.S. soil where a building was blown up (in recent memory) was done by a white male. Where would racial profiling have helped then?

*edit*
I would also like to point out that young black males might have a different opinion than you on the APB thing...

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Originally posted by japangreg

True, but it is also extremely dangerous. 'Racial Profiling' is just a politically correct term for racism. It's treating people differently based on their race/appearence.

Well that is not the fbi definition. It is trying to indentify a person by their race. Lets be honest if a person robs you are you not going to give the police a discription including their race?

good point about oklahoma. But by bringing that up if you consider 9/11 and the first world trade center attack, you could say that there is a 98% chance(25+ arabs vs 2 white guys) that a building bombing will be commited by an arab.

[japangreg]

Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar
Well that is not the fbi definition. It is trying to indentify a person by their race. Lets be honest if a person robs you are you not going to give the police a discription including their race?

good point about oklahoma. But by bringing that up if you consider 9/11 and the first world trade center attack, you could say that there is a 98% chance(25+ arabs vs 2 white guys) that a building bombing will be commited by an arab.

Well, to take that further, I think it was 15 of the hijackers were Saudi, so there's actually a 55% chance (not sure of the ethnicity of the original WTT bombers; anyone?) that the next attack would be from a Saudi.

*edit*

Yes, but a description of a robber actually does some good in preventing future crimes (he can be caught and arrested). The race/height/etc. of a suicide bomber becomes meaningless because they are already dead. It's a poor assumption that all terrorists will look alike and follow the same procedures. They will share many common traits, but I don't think it's a simple as boiling it down to a shade or region.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

I would place a bet on that. ( I think the original wtc bombers were arab.)

edit: i meant saudi instead of arab.

[Hellsbellboy]

Originally posted by japangreg
I doubt the 9-11 hijackers were all carrying almanacs when they borded the planes.

The only other terrorist event I can think of that happened on U.S. soil where a building was blown up (in recent memory) was done by a white male. Where would racial profiling have helped then?

maybe not.. but one of them, was stopped and giving a police ticket. If they would have checked him out, they would have seen he was here in the country illegaly..

regardless, I'm sure they have a reason for saying watch out for people with almanacs.. this wasn't just decided out of the blue on Christmas.

[Hellsbellboy]

Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar
I would place a bet on that. ( I think the original wtc bombers were arab.)

yes they were.

[Naked inc.]

<rant>
what do terrorist look like?
anyone with half a brain would know that the first thing taught to spies, terrorist, ect.. is blend in to not be suspected.
therefore profiling by race/appearence is completely stupid.

the terrorist dont like you, they dont like me, hell they dont even like themselves. they just hate.
they hit the trade centers to affect all countries, it was done to hurt all races and all nations emotionally and physically.
..world trade center.. get it?

if there is another terrorist attack in any country it wont be on major tourist attractions, it will be to destroy the mints(where they print the money)if you cant print money every day the value/stock will take a serious roller coaster ride.

the terrorist are trying to upset the global monetary balance that all countries rely on for a stable economy.

with that said i would find it hard for anyone not to take terrorism personally.
i like working, making and spending money, traveling to places around the world and meeting new people rather than just reading about them.
i dont enjoy the simple pleasures in my life threatened by the stupidity and hate that drives terrorism.
<rant>

[japangreg]

Originally posted by Hellsbellboy
maybe not.. but one of them, was stopped and giving a police ticket. If they would have checked him out, they would have seen he was here in the country illegaly..

regardless, I'm sure they have a reason for saying watch out for people with almanacs.. this wasn't just decided out of the blue on Christmas.

I'm sure they have a reason for every thing they do; I just don't agree with a lot of it.

Asking for the police to spend extra time keeping tabs on foreign tourists with almanacs and maps will take time away from running checks on people stopped for speeding; you have to pick and choose where you allocate your resources. Throwing money and man power at the idea that terrorists are running around carrying maps and plans under their arms just seems silly. And you can be damn sure that they won't be doing it now that it's public (not that it will change anything if they didn't; all the information in these books is already public ally available from other sources).

[Hellsbellboy]

they could have just as easy have said look for people carrying Flight Manuals.. In this country that is how most criminals get caught is thru traffic stops.. cause that is when their idenity and stuff are checked. It's not done at any other time, except at the Air Port. Now if a cop pulls someone over and see, hey Muhammad here has a Flight Manual, well lets check out his idenity a little more through then normal. Doesn't mean the cop follows the guy to wherever he is going and runs a stack out.. and doesn't mean the cop arrest the guy on the spot.

[japangreg]

Originally posted by Hellsbellboy
they could have just as easy have said look for people carrying Flight Manuals.. In this country that is how most criminals get caught is thru traffic stops.. cause that is when their idenity and stuff are checked. It's not done at any other time, except at the Air Port. Now if a cop pulls someone over and see, hey Muhammad here has a Flight Manual, well lets check out his idenity a little more through then normal. Doesn't mean the cop follows the guy to wherever he is going and runs a stack out.. and doesn't mean the cop arrest the guy on the spot.

I'd like to see a statistic on how many terrorists or those with known terrorist ties have been arrested this way. Last I had heard, the national gun registry wasn't even tied into the FBI terrorist database, meaning a known terrorist could walk into a gun store and buy a weapon using his real name without any questions.

I'm all for increased scrutiny of suspicious people, but we need to get our act together on how it is done. Get our agencies talking to each other, link our information together and stop wasting people's time looking for maps among the thousands of tourists roaming the country snapping pictures of our landmarks.