dcsimg
A Flash Developer Resource Site

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: [Disc] Why make games in Flash?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Carlisle, UK
    Posts
    94

    [Disc] Why make games in Flash?

    Hi all

    I was once asked a question why I made games in Macromedia Flash. My answer was that it was a good medium to get my games to people over the internet in a web browser.

    I was just wondering, because there is obviously a lot of talent here, why other developers used Flash instead of more traditional routes (i.e. DirectX, C++ etc)?

    The other obvious reasons are that Flash handles graphics and sound without much code but it also has bad points like performance (because it uses vectors)

    Anybody???

    Thanks, I'll be quiet now...

    JT

  2. #2
    Senior Member youmex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dortmund, Germany
    Posts
    176
    There might be several reasons:

    1. Flash is easy to learn and you can start right away

    2. Flash is perfect to get good results in very fast

    3. You can create impressive (flash) games within a short time and at your own. Using other langauges it takes much more effort.

    4. Or people are not able to programm in C/C++/C# and DirectX

    Only some reasons to use flash...
    Be a worm and catch fruits in a parallax scenario:

    http://www.nibbly.com/flug.html

  3. #3
    Senior Member webgeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    1,356
    Why am I interested in Flash games; primarily because of the ubiquitious nature of the Flash player on the Internet. Sadly, Flash had better evolve more quickly as the competition is heating up:
    http://www.windowsforms.net/WhidbeyF...ime&tabindex=4
    That technology is in the same vein as:
    http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/index.jsp
    ClickOnce appears more refined overall. Particulary support for external dependencies. That's pretty slick...

    You don't think Macromedia is the only company interested in rich internet applications (games are RIAs too) do you? With Sun and Microsoft both bringing in high-octane solutions, Macromedia will need to struggle to compete. They have the Flash player and a huge installed base, but Flash as a technology is not in a position to compete head-to-head against Java or .NET.

    For historical background, Macromedia has already been kicked around by Sun/Microsoft/IBM/BEA in the application server market. Neither the Cold Fusion app server or JRun J2EE container is really much of a competitor anymore.

    The point at which I can do C# with DirectX hardware-enhanced performace in a lightweight application over the Internet is when I seriously reconsider my interest in Flash. For these reasons, I'm hedging my bets by making ElectroServer 3.5+ support multiple programming langauges from the client-side API (C# and Java included).

    On the plus side, you don't think Macromedia is just going to sit on their hands, do you? I'm sure they have something clever in store to fight back.

    Have fun!

    P.S. Sorry for the triade

  4. #4
    Senior Member Kirill M.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    712
    I use flash because graphical output is so easy in it. To make a game even in Java, which is pretty high level, I'd have to first make an engine that simulates the environment I'm used to in Flash, with mcs and frames, that allows me to do animation and easy state management.

  5. #5
    Hype over content... Squize's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Lost forever in a happy crowd...
    Posts
    5,928
    Pretty much the same from me.

    I came to Flash from assembler ( I'd had about 5 years off from everything computer related inbetween ) and just being able to put a sprite on screen and move it with a couple of lines of script was bliss.
    It did take me ages for me to get used to the loss of control, I even considered Flash 4 AS as a high level language, but that's just me and my weirdness when it comes to coding.

    It's a combination of player availability and ease of use. What other development platform can you write a game in 2 weeks and earn money from it ?
    Just insane.
    Also what helps a lot is the sense of community and that backroom coder feel. That anyone on this board could make the best Flash game ever, that's kinda cool. Flash games are on such a level playing field due to the limitations of the player and the lack of broadband support.

    Saying that, I'd jump ship to Director tomorrow if I could

    Squize.

  6. #6
    Spelunker Beatcow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    after 5, before 4 Location::~Location(){}
    Posts
    797
    First of all, I can only see flash doing 2 things: games/simple engines,animations. For sure you can make flash calculate, sort, etc... but my point is, Flash is not made for hardcore software programming. It really depends on where you want to go in life. If it's a hobby to make games, its flash that you start with. If its in the game industry, flash gives you a good feel and foundation on what its going to be like. If you want to be making Flash(actually programming the program that you guys use to program games), then you don't spend too much time with flash. (By the way, I'm going for the last one! ). After I started using flash, I went on to VB and then C++. I find that white codespace is kicka**. Unless you start using Visual C++, you can't get any whiter and plain(FUN THOUGH!!) than this:

    Mmm....C++ whiteness......(By the way, this is what it looks like when I code C++.Lol Note: This is not my code that you are seeing)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    Senior Member webgeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    1,356
    I'll just say that I don't agree that you can't make commercial games in Flash. Just read the line in my signature after my name and know that we don't make games in anything but Flash currently

    |
    |
    |
    V

  8. #8
    Senior Member youmex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dortmund, Germany
    Posts
    176
    I made the switch from assembler to C/C++ and then to Flash. I think Flash is pretty neat for smaller games and I agree to Squize, everyone on the board can do the best flash game ever if he has what it needs. However, I think this is also the dangerous thing about flash. Prices are dropping and you have a lot of people competing with you. So your only choice is to become one of the best (or at least one to be known as the best )

    I think commercial games can be done in flash, but only very limited games. It would all help if flash would be 10 times faster (hello MM, here's the wish and killer feature for flash 8 )
    Be a worm and catch fruits in a parallax scenario:

    http://www.nibbly.com/flug.html

  9. #9
    Senior Member Kirill M.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    712
    I'd say that flash is actually best for one thing, interfaces. Doing games in it is really pushing what it can do I think, which is of course a good thing. It's not that good at animation either. It can't handle too much animation, so a lot of the time people resort to using a single tween for a single scene, or importing animation into flash as bitmaps (which is not flash animation anymore).

  10. #10
    Senior Member webgeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    1,356
    It would all help if flash would be 10 times faster
    On several occasions I have met with MM engineers and always brought this up. 2004 is a HUGE improvement. With that said, I feel the biggest handicap of Flash being used for games, and RIAs in general, is the display performance.

    The code performance in Flash 2004 is enough for many things but the graphics performance is a huge drag. I think the biggest gain would be if they could double the graphics performance. Then you will start seeing more sophisticated applications and games being built. If I turn on my crystal ball, I would say that the player update MM has announced for later this year will increase performance along these lines. I feel that AS2 and the code performance increase was the first part of a several punch combo that is going to try and bring Flash in line with the big players in I/T. Why do you think that auto-updater thing was created?

    just being able to put a sprite on screen and move it with a couple of lines of script was bliss.
    With O.O. game APIs you can do the same thing in Java/.NET very easily. The difference is that's just a starting point for those languages while Flash is maxed out at that point.

    That's what I was refering to in my first post. .NET will soon have a way to run applications off the Internet easily. Java already has one (called Web Start) but Java is not distributed widely enough. .NET is included with EVERY new computer with a Microsoft OS installed and it's an easy update if you don't have it already. This install ability (called ClickOnce) will be a part of the standard .NET API as of v2.0. This will ship with the Longhorn product by default. I think it's in beta now.

    This will provide all those .NET application developers (a LOT more of them then Flash developers) the ability to provide Flash-type applications to end users. It won't be cross-platform, but according to the statistics, that really doesn't matter much (sorry Mac users).

    Ok, enough future-gazing. It's all fun and games in the end, right?

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Carlisle, UK
    Posts
    94
    Hmm very interesting.

    I use the .Net framework at the moment for my back end stuff (multiplayer games) but Id be interested in seeing it running neatly in a web browser (maybe with some form of directX???)

    The reason I kindof started this thread is that I really like Flash... nice to use, easy control of Graphics and sound, no need to write a frame engine etc. but the limitations I find a little annoying is its complete lack of OOP, I know it supports some flavour of this but it just isnt OOP. I often find myself writing very messy code to get something to work. Whilst using vb.Net it is very easy to manage code because of the OOP aspects.

    Having said all of this I love programming in Flash as much as I do in .Net, maybe its because of the immediate results that can be acheived in Flash??? (and I love that just about anybody with an interest can be creative without being a programming guru)

    Thanks for your time dudes/dudettes.

    JT
    It is confirmed that I am quite sad. I told the wife I was 'loading' the pizza into the oven!

  12. #12
    Senior Member lapo73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    italy
    Posts
    395
    nice discussion here :-)
    I'd say that flash is actually best for one thing, interfaces. Doing games in it is really pushing what it can do I think, which is of course a good thing. It's not that good at animation either. It can't handle too much animation, so a lot of the time people resort to using a single tween for a single scene, or importing animation into flash as bitmaps (which is not flash animation anymore).
    Good point Kirill, interfaces are definately one of the best things Flash can do.
    When Flash 4 and 5 came out it was mostly considered a design tool and websites were filled with animated intros, 99% of corporate and commercial sites had their "Flash intro" (and then quickly came the "skip intro" button)

    Then Flash MX brought the new idea of Flash as a "rich" frontend to web applications and made it very popular

    As far as "why making games with Flash"
    should be pretty obvious ... it's the best platform for web games.
    It's not just a matter of performance or language complexity, that's just a small part of the whole picture.
    As previously stated in the other posts Flash has some advantages over the other technologies:

    » learning curve (yes, it is difficult at the very beginning especially if you come from traditional development, but once you've got the basic concepts the learning speed will skyrocket)

    » speed of development (as pointed out by Squize you can make a full game in a few weeks/months depending on its complexity)

    » integrated environment (facilitates handling game assets)

    » platform independence (actually the Linux flash player is not yet powerful enough to play games decently)

    » ubiquity of the runtime environment (Flash player plugin) (and in case you don't have it, it just takes few minutes to install it with no sweat)

    ( Do you think I should ask MM some money for all this publicity ? )

    I am a big Java and C# fan but both of them still can't compete with Flash when talking about easyness of deployment. Also their learning curve is steeper and those easy "tweened" animations done in Flash would be a pain in the a** to be done. You should spend several developing an "animation framework"

    Another point I really like in Flash is the quality of vector drawings. Games like this showcase very well what I am talking about.

    One great alternative deployment system I found for games is RealOne Arcade by RealMedia. They've created a cool integrated software (Win only) that allows you to install and remove web games in just 1 click .
    These games are mostly developed using C++ (maybe VB? anyway they're Windows executables) and they're played offline.

    What is great about their system is that the RealOne Arcade application hides all the problems related with downloading, installing and configuring games making the "experience" as easy as playing online games.

    Lapo
    www.gotoandplay.it
    Flash game developers community
    www.smartfoxserver.com
    Multiplayer Flash Server

  13. #13
    doItLikeThis
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    :noitacoL
    Posts
    1,080
    Because flash is simple and 'user friendly'.

    Edit:- Thanx to this discussion now no one will have the guts to ask me this question
    Last edited by adit_ya_sharma; 05-07-2004 at 03:39 AM.
    -Aditya

  14. #14
    alternative coder murraymint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    England
    Posts
    255
    In my case, I come from a creative background, you know drawing and stuff.

    I have never wanted to become a fully blown coder, using C++ and all than noncense. I have always just wanted to know enough to bring my animations and games to life.

    Flash affords me this lifestyle.
    I only need to learn a small amount of programming to achieve the desired results. Leaving the rest of my brain free for PHP,mysql,Javascript,Perl....oh damn

    I don't care about the code behind the code. That's is someone elses job.

    The added bonus is that Flash is made for the web.

    In the future I believe users will be ever more reluctant to download files; as viruses, spyware and adware are getting out of control.

    Web games are quickly accessed and for the most part safe. They have the broadest appeal and the widest compatability and can be developed by just one person. No contest!

    p.s If a person knows how to program e-commerce websites and makes a good game they might even make some money

    Last edited by murraymint; 05-07-2004 at 05:41 AM.
    Some Games
    -----------------------

  15. #15
    Noob in disguise blakfeld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    258
    I, myself, have often asked myself why I insist on useing Flash when Im trying to learn languages like Java, C++, Python, Pearl, VB, JS. But, the reason Im sticking primarily to flash for the momment is that I honestly think that its going to go far. I dont think it will ever become as big fast and as popular as languages like C++, but I think games on it will eb taken more seriously. Why do I think it will go far? Simply because everything you need to play a fun and interesting game comes with your browser. All you have to do is click a link and let flashplayer do the work. And simply because you can share your games online, is why I think in the age of the internet, Flash will go far.
    Your a toaster and thats all youll ever be!

  16. #16
    Senior Member TeroLebe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Lahti, Finland
    Posts
    302
    Flash Games don't have to be installed. You can play them directly with Your web Browser.

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Carlisle, UK
    Posts
    94
    That was my original point, my reasons originally were because it is easily distributed in a browser.

    .NET will soon have a way to run applications off the Internet easily
    Ive been thinking about the .Net in a browser thing...

    I certainly wouldnt trust code that somebody was running in my browser that was created in .Net, think of all the malicious users that could use this to open ports (trojans) etc.

    Flash cant run as a server and therfor cannot open a port to listen for traffic.

    Anyway this is a Flash forum, lets forget about .Net

    JT
    It is confirmed that I am quite sad. I told the wife I was 'loading' the pizza into the oven!

  18. #18
    Perhaps if Macromedia bundled two seperate players with the application they could cater for improved performance? One reason for the poor performance of the Flash Player is due to limiting the size of the download via the net - this is why Shockwave is 8mb+.
    Mark Hardisty
    Red7 Design
    ========================================
    Red7 Design
    Starsky and Hutch
    ========================================

  19. #19
    Start a Revolution al hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    290
    Flash is the best software to make minigames or games it's easy for develop, and this is one of the most popular platforms for play webgames.

    The bad point is handle of 3D, but i think Flash is really good.

  20. #20
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Akron OH, USA
    Posts
    4,841
    what role do you see for Flash mini games on mobile devices, like PDAs and phones?

    assuming MM gets its act together and delivers Flash on a reasonable number of phones, how do you think it will fare against .net and java for mobile gaming market?
    aviarts.com - web development and flash development

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  




Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width

HTML5 Development Center