Just Ripped For Over $2000 USD

[flipshark]

You have got to be kidding me. I think I just got ripped via paypal for over $2000.

Someone paid me about $2000 for a job about 3 weeks ago. Now today I get this email from paypal.com

Dear Ryan xxxxxx,

It has come to our attention that you may be the recipient of
potentially fraudulent funds. We have initiated an investigation into this event. In the meantime, we have placed a pending reversal on the funds in question until the investigation is complete. This pending reversal will show as a deduction in your available balance.

In the meantime, you are free to continue transacting using your PayPal account.

Transaction Date: Jun. 13, 2004 12:13:23 PDT

Transaction Amount: $2,199.00 USD

Payor's Email: xxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.com

So now I my account balance is showing negative $500, the $1600+ I had in the account is gone, and the $2000+ bucks I was paid is now $0.00.

I can't begin to tell you how p1$$ed I am.

How could I have avoided this though?? The buyer was verified with a confirmed address (however since there was no shipping of goods the seller protection policy doesn't apply), I made sure I got payment before providing the final work, and 3 weeks went by with no problems.

[PAlexC]

Wow, that sucks. I would think for that amount of money they would call with a detailed explanation. Sounds like maybe you were paid with a card or account that was reported stolen.

In that case, it looks like their policy isn't to absorb the financial liability and sort it out, but to pass the buck on to you, which REALLY sucks.

Call and demand details.

What happened to your other $1600?

[hanratty21]

I dont use paypal for that reason exactly. Unless I am buying something less than $100 on ebay, the hassle is not worth it.

Certified or Cashiers Check is the way to go. Personal check is ok as well....I just wait for them to clear before final delivery of software.

Also - I usually put a little backdoor into everything I do that will shut the site down in a matter of seconds if I feel so inclined.(*this little "feature" is outlined in each contract that goes out as well*)

After I am paid, I take it out as easily as I put it in.

RH

[flipshark]

Originally posted by PAlexC
Wow, that sucks. I would think for that amount of money they would call with a detailed explanation. Sounds like maybe you were paid with a card or account that was reported stolen.

In that case, it looks like their policy isn't to absorb the financial liability and sort it out, but to pass the buck on to you, which REALLY sucks.

Call and demand details.

What happened to your other $1600?

I've emailed them for details. i will call later today if they don't respond.

As for the other $1600 basically I was paid $2199, but I withdrew that amount about 2 weeks ago.

Today (this morning) I had $1600 in my account from other work.

Then this afternoon they put a pending reversal of $2199 with only $1600 in the account. So my $1600 is locked (pending reversal) and my account shows a negative $500 (totaling the $2199 being sent back to whoever)

[random_fool]

http://www.paypalsucks.com/forums/showforum.php?fid=3

http://www.paypalsucks.com/forums/showforum.php?fid=5

[flipshark]

well at least I'm not the only one.

[nordberg]

"We got hosed, Tommy. We got hosed."

[Ihoss]

I didn't get that? You did some work for someone and got payed $2199. Then now they say that the guy who payed you is a frauder (sp?) and that therefore you have to pay the money back? That doesn't make any sense to me! Why should you pay if the other guy has messed up? Or have i missunderstood?

[aversion]

I don't understand, you were paid the money, it was in your account, and then they took it out again??!

Seems to me that once you have the money it's someone else's problem, I can't believe they can go into your account and take back money... well I guess it's play pal money.

I've never used them.

[Ultima Designs]

PayPal should have features for this...if it were me, I would pick up the phone and call my attorney.

[Ihoss]

Originally posted by aversion
...play pal...

play pal?

[flipshark]

What I'm guessing happened is the person funded their account with a bank account or credit card. The bank account or credit card probably did a chargeback, and instead of paypal taking the loss, they figure why not pass it on to me.

Plus the $1600 they are holding, is not from the fraudulent transaction, it is from a different transaction altogether. I talked to them on the phone and they basically said I'm out of luck because I didn't qualify for seller protection policy.

But 3 weeks to determine the funds are fraudulent.. come on!

[Ihoss]

What? That is ridiculous! How can they hold you responsible for the other guy messing up? Its nothing you could have done and it is in no way your responsibility! It is their mistake and they should say "Sorry for the accident. We take full responsibility and we will make sure it never happens again"! I would call them and then call my atourny or something right away!

[/rant]

[PAlexC]

Remember, he's held to whatever policies PayPal sets when he signed up. Ethically, you're right Ihoss. But it saves them time and money to pass the buck on to you. They have no obligation to offer protection, even though they should.

[uglynora@rcn.com]

Originally posted by flipshark
What I'm guessing happened is the person funded their account with a bank account or credit card. The bank account or credit card probably did a chargeback, and instead of paypal taking the loss, they figure why not pass it on to me.

Plus the $1600 they are holding, is not from the fraudulent transaction, it is from a different transaction altogether. I talked to them on the phone and they basically said I'm out of luck because I didn't qualify for seller protection policy.

But 3 weeks to determine the funds are fraudulent.. come on!

Are these policies in the service agreement you signed? If not, get a lawyer and fight it. If so, then get over it already. It's a hard lesson, but next time you'll know better.

[flipshark]

Under terms and conditions I am liable.

However, I'm not giving up over 2 grand without some sort of a fight.

[yasunobu13]

So, why are they taking the money from you? If anything, they should be taking the money from the person who gave it up.

Is Paypal charging you for a negative balance?

[flipshark]

Originally posted by yasunobu13
So, why are they taking the money from you? If anything, they should be taking the money from the person who gave it up.

Is Paypal charging you for a negative balance?

From what I can gather, someone used a stolen bank account, stolen credit card, or stolen paypal account to pay me.

The person whose account was stolen isn't responsible due to 0% fraud liability system that paypal and most banks and credit cards have in place.

If I had a UPS/Fedex number showing I shipped the item to a paypal confirmed address, then I would be protected as the seller. Since the item was sent online in zip format, I have no such protection.

Right now paypal hasn't tried to take the $500 out of my bank account or from my credit card. But if I received a payment today for $300, I would the have a -$200 balance (-$500 + $300) and could not use that $300.

Hopefully, I can get some of my $$$ back.

[Loyal Rogue]

I know this doesn't help now but in the future, if you decide to continue using paypal, you might want to fulfill the seller protection guidelines by shipping your finished product on disk to the verified address.
You could even send a blank disk just so long as you can track the delivery and receipt signature.
After covering your *$$ you can always ftp or email the actual files.

On another note,
I also strongly promote using the "protection" hanratty mentioned which can simply be an empty movieclip in the beginning that looks to your server for permission to keep playing or redirects the viewer to a page of your choice if some monkey business has happened.

Good luck, Ryan, and don't give up.

[johnie]

You have this liabilty with several credit cards also, not just PayPal. Its one of the problems with EBusiness over the Net. Uou don't have actually see the individual that you are doing bussiness with therefore don't verify they are whom they say they are.

Net Escrow companies are safer as they take the money, verify that it is there, and hold it till you complete the work or deliver the goods.

https://www.escrow.com/index.asp is one of many online escrow services. Also if you are doing work over the internet I would be asking for checks/Money order/Have a Real CC service, have a written contract, and would do a credit check and business reference check on anyone whom I did business with instead of doing work willy nilly with funds transfered through paypal.