Morality and Ethics and Religion

[breadlegs]

Originally posted by DigitalOne
I'm a Catholic, but I recognize there are idiots and jerks in my religion, as I recognize there are genuinely good people who don't believe in God.

Lately, I have been questioning things in my religion. For instance, my mother is a devout Catholoc, and she goes to Church every Sunday. I normally don't. What I have begun to question is this belief that if you go to Church, you are a good person. I don't agree with this. I'm sure there are murderers and thieves who have "morals" and feel the need to go to Church. Meanwhile, it is a common belief among most in religion that those who do not follow God or go to Church are evil, and will go to Hell. This belief aggravates me. I've begun to realize that perhaps I don't want to follow organized religion any longer. It's hypocritical. I want to follow something genuine, and right now, the Catholic church isn't. I believe in a Creator, but I don't think he meant for absolute worship, and those who didn't follow would be comdemmed, yet that is exactly what we are taught to believe.

So yeah, that probably makes no sense to anyone, but basically flipshark, I feel that there are just as many genuinely good people who don't have a religion as there are devout Catholics who are jerks, criminals, and immoral.

Meh.

Church should be a place where like minded individuals meet.

If you dont have a relationship with Jesus, then going to church wont make any difference to your life (unless you are going there to find people who will lead you to Jesus).

Good people are everywhere. Some are religious. some are not.

Just so happens that I feel like ive become a better, more considerate person, more giving and caring since I found God.

Maybe thats just me though.

.

[asun2art]

Originally posted by PAlexC
I think your friend is an idiot.

moral of the story. Always cut the cards and use a dealer bottom card!

[DigitalOne]

Originally posted by PAlexC
DigitalOne, there are jerks everywhere.

I think you need a good Jesuit education.

While going to church, taking part in sacraments and praying is important, it means squat if you're still a big fat jerk.

God and Jesus, as we were taught by these liberal missionaries, are in what you do and how you treat other people. It's called a 'horizontal' view of God. Rather than seeing God as some being above you to be feared and worshiped, you see that your interactions with your fellow man here on Earth is what really counts. What do you do to help people less fortunate than you? How do you treat the people around you? That kind of stuff.

Seems like a much more practical and meaningful take on the purpose of Jesus's life than just throwing bible quotes at people and telling them they're going to hell. It's not our place to pass judgement on people. Besides, it's amazing to see how kindness really does spread.

I agree whole-heartedly. But to me, it seems as though these people throwing bible quotes are always around me. I go to a Catholic school here in Beantown, a pre-dominantly Catholic community, and in my theology class, for instance, we are taught (seemingly) that it is important to lead a just life, but more than anything, going to Church and leading your life based on this week's scripture reading is what really makes you a good person. I disagree with this. It's like the saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." That's how I view Church.

Believe me, I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe he is the son of God, and I believe in God the Creator. However, I don't believe in the ideal that going to Church makes you a better person.

[pooon]

I agree with the comment earlier about religion being an addiction for some. I too am surrounded by those trying to push it on me like a drug. Believe what you want, but why is it your concern if others don't believe in what you do? I'd sooner burn in your idea of hell than spend my life following something that science has been disproving.

I have a group of friends and the two I find most untrust worthly are the heavy church-goers. They've stolen from me in the past and lie on a regular basis, then they lead on like I'm the bad one (sounds a lot like your friend).

Religion just feels like a joke these days, thanks to the extremists. I think there are better ways to teach the world whats right and wrong than religion.

Something I would like answered is, why is the christan god real, but you can denounce the gods of other, forigen faiths?

[flipshark]

Originally posted by hurricaneone


Flipshark, have you ever read any humanist literature? To sum it up, it's like Christianity but without the religious fervor, the need for faith, as it assumes that Man controls his own destiny in what is considered not a divine but a mechanical, natural Universe. Additionally, Man is born with a clear conscience (free of 'sin'), it is society which creates evil but as Man regains control, he himself has the power to change society and rid the world of evil.

Interesting stuff, if you don't go for the jump-in-the-deepend Christian viewpoint.

Isn't humanism basically:

If I am good (or bad) society is to blame. Therefore it is up to me to change society for the good (or bad) in turn changing others (whom society is blamed for shaping).

Then again one might wonder if humans are merely immorals who have been forced to become moral beings by society, or whether we are the opposite (moral beings corrupted by society).

[PAlexC]

Originally posted by DigitalOne
I go to a Catholic school here in Beantown, a pre-dominantly Catholic community,

Ask 'em what they think of the Jesuits.

[flipshark]

Originally posted by breadlegs
since I found God.

Where was he?? If you can find him,I'm sure you can find me a Hong Kong Phooey tshirt with the checkered background.

(Sorry, I'm just kidding not making fun .. I just read it weird)

[former_muslim]

flipshark

So first, is it a common assumption amongst religious people that atheists (one who does not believe in a creator god) have no morals or ethics, just because they have no religion??

Yes it is, otherwise they feel they're fools to believe in God. They have to have some justification for being religious - right?

I mean I thought it was common sense that just because I am an atheist, I am not a murderor, theif, etc.

and you STILL think that way. Dont doubt yourself, you're right. I'm almost an athiest myself after leaving Islam. I beleive atleast, agnosticism is the most natural state of belief. There are 850 million athiests/agnostics/non-religious people in the world, good news, right.

Second, do you believe you can have ethics without religion?

Definitely, I beleive commonsense is trustable by which we can decide whether anything is good or bad. Even in religion, you'll have criminals and in agnostics you'll have them too.

[Ultima Designs]

Don't forget - atheists are often very grumpy and bitter and will lash out at children or they may even try to trick you into neglecting God's Word.

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidz.html

[flipshark]

Time to add to the debate.

Anyone believe we are born with some sort of gene or something that tells us what is right and wrong/unethical/immoral?

[PAlexC]

Originally posted by flipshark
Anyone believe we are born with some sort of gene or something that tells us what is right and wrong/unethical/immoral?

Nah. That's all nurture stuff. Just look at the values of different societies.

[DigitalOne]

Originally posted by flipshark
Time to add to the debate.

Anyone believe we are born with some sort of gene or something that tells us what is right and wrong/unethical/immoral?

Not a chance. I believe that the way you're brought up reflects the person you grow to be. I know that if my mother wasn't such a nurturer (sometimes too much), I might have less compassion for things. I also know that if my father wasn't such a sports enthusiast, I probably wouldn't be, either.

Although now that I think about it, I do think that there are some things people just have to realize for themselves. For instance, my parents think Apple is a tasty fruit, but I still managed to embrace this wonderful world of computers. So I think there's a medium somewhere. Although I don't necessarily think it's a gene that inhibits us.

[former_muslim]

flipshark

Anyone believe we are born with some sort of gene or something that tells us what is right and wrong/unethical/immoral?

I dont think so. Look at the simple example of a toddler slapping another toddler. He sees he can make the other guy cry and when he's slapped himself, he too starts crying, so now he knows getting slapped isnt good. Tit for tat is natural behavior. You take my toy, I'll take yours. Deciding right/wrong is commonsense.
There's intersting stuff aboutg genes though: once i watched a TV program which said some infants are passive by nature and have to be "excited" into action and can improve their approach to live to a more active one. but again, deciding right and wrong, I beleive its safe to rely on commonsense.

Ultima Design, religious people too are often very grumpy and bitter and will cause you to neglect how to use commonsense.
Lesson: Dont lash out on athiests or you'll be lashed out at yourself. I'll complain to moderators if you lash out again at atheists.

[DigitalOne]

Originally posted by former_muslim
Ultima Design, religious people too are often very grumpy and bitter and will cause you to neglect how to use commonsense.
Lesson: Dont lash out on athiests or you'll be lashed out at yourself. I'll complain to moderators if you lash out again at atheists.

I don't think he was being serious, former_muslim.

[former_muslim]

Sure he was. What makes you think he wasnt, huh ? If he wasnt, so niether was I then. Look at his website, its all Jesus stuff.
He says atheists are grumpy and bitter - and needless to say this is OFFENSIVE to athiests.

[Ultima Designs]

Originally posted by former_muslim
Ultima Design, religious people too are often very grumpy and bitter and will cause you to neglect how to use commonsense.
Lesson: Dont lash out on athiests or you'll be lashed out at yourself. I'll complain to moderators if you lash out again at atheists.

I wasn't being serious. It was meant to be a joke - you know, ha ha. It's been linked to before, and I condemn every single thing on that website. I'm not even Christian. Regardless, turn your tone down. The mods on this forum respect all points of view, and even if I was serious, I would hardly call that lashing out.

And you're threatening to complain to the moderators whose rules you have already violated - twice? Ironic.

[DigitalOne]

Originally posted by former_muslim
Sure he was. What makes you think he wasnt, huh ? If he wasnt, so niether was I then. Look at his website, its all Jesus stuff.
He says atheists are grumpy and bitter - and needless to say this is OFFENSIVE to athiests.

Because I know him. We're both active members on this forum, and from his past posts I can make the (correct) assumption he was not serious.

Meanwhile, someone with an obviously religion-charged agenda seems to be trolling the forums today. I'll give you 3 guesses as to who it is, and the first 2 don't count.

[indivision]

Man.

Cheating to win a 2k pot from 'friends'?

[Ultima Designs]

Originally posted by DigitalOne
Because I know him. We're both active members on this forum, and from his past posts I can make the (correct) assumption he was not serious.

Thanks for the defense man.

Originally posted by DigitalOne
Meanwhile, someone with an obviously religion-charged agenda seems to be trolling the forums today. I'll give you 3 guesses as to who it is, and the first 2 don't count.

I agree. You're at the wrong place with that kind of agenda, my friend. This is a friendly community that works to help each other out. If your intent is to spam the CL with anti-religion rhetoric, then FK isn't the place for you (the same holds true if your intent is to spam the CL with religious rhetoric, too, though - I'm not trying to be one sided). If your intention is to learn more about Flash and design and/or help others with Flash and design and/or to just become an active member of this community, then I welcome you with open arms.

Anyway...I cannot for the live of me see any definitive correlation between morality and religion, even as the staunch conservative that I am. I believe that both society and religion reflect these sorts of values and that is more or less natural human instinct to follow them. You could call me an atheist who returned to his original religion (Judaism) as a non-practicing member. Yes, I believe that is overwhelmingly likely that a supreme being exists, but I don't want to force my beliefs upon others nor do I believe that someone must believe my beliefs or any others in order for them to hold moral convictions. In this case Flipshark your friend is obviously the immoral one, albeit the fact that he is indeed religious.

[former_muslim]

I was here to make a Flash game, but I was censored out by people afraid to see the truth coming out. My main aim was to get that game made, fine I'll adjust to learning about Flash now, or see what that goes. Certainly, Freedom of speech doesnt exist on this website. I was surprised to see that! Where are you all mostly from ? Not USA, eh ?