Morality and Ethics and Religion

[gerbick]

or like bitter people that rant and rave about religion at a developer's site?

dude, you truly need new material.

[former_muslim]

Gerbick the moderator,
Read the NAME of this thread:
Morality and Ethics and Religion
This is the Coffee Lounge. You need development talk, you can go to the other forums.

[gerbick]

yeah, but usually discussions usually progress... unlike your rhetoric. 'tis the same pal... boring as hell.

development talk? you started in the Game Forum, didn't you? And you bring the same stuff to the Coffee Lounge?

*yawn*

if you want to talk about the same stuff over and over ad nauseum, maybe you're at the wrong forum to begin with.

[former_muslim]

gerbick
I was responding to a post by DigitalOne telling how he started criticing his Catholic religion. To that, yasunobu13 responded by suggesting I was forcing religion down other people's throats. Now this is a thread about religion, he's going to read stuff about religion, right?
I'm really in this forum for a short time, so cool down. I know this isnt the place for intense religious discussions which is my interest and not of most people here. That being said, censoring my posts (which happened before) shouldnt have been happened and trying to stop others from talking about religion shouldnt be done either. Its freedom of speech and again, this is Coffee lounge.
Anyway to bring it back to topic, here's the post by FlipShark which needs a reply:

Originally posted by flipshark
Explaination requested

No but you take 1000 kids molested by priests (not trying to start a religious debate)

All the kids are orphans, all raised by the church (nuns, fathers, etc) 100 become normal adults, 200 become scarred adults, 300 become antisocial to the point of nonfunctioning, 400 become molesters themselves.

If such a deviation exists, it shows that something other than circumstances (like ability to deal with stress which is partially genetic) is causing the variance.

which was in response to Archimage.

[swampy]

Originally posted by former_muslim
Why then the extreme moderation if Islam is mocked? Christianity mocking is fine, but no no, Islam must'nt be mocked. My thread for Quranic wife beating was closed down 2 times (even in the CL)!
This shows you its possible to mock Christianity here, but not Islam. Interesting.. !

wait till you hear us go on about buddhists, boy those guys are bitter.

Originally posted by former_muslim

tell that to the mods who close the threads!

right on brother ! vive la revolution !

[Ask The Geezer]

Do you think we are born with ethics, or a sense of right or wrong??

No, absolutely not. The only sense your born with are the five everyone is aware of, pun intended. Ethics is a learned response. Cannibalism is ethical in certain societies, everyone else will shun you if you admit to it. Read Lord of the Flies again.

Religion is the foulest deceit ever perpetrated on man by men and everyone but the religious know it.

[david petley]

former_muslim...

Its freedom of speech and again, this is Coffee lounge.

I think I need to clear something up here as you keep harping about it....

You gave up your right to freedom of speech when you agreed to our rules. If you did not intend to do so, please re-assess your membership here.

We can edit and delete and remove what you say...you told us we could do so.

You cannot take that right away from us now that you have gained entry to the site...since we are talking morals on this thread, such behaviour would be considered by me to be immoral.

davidp.

[XU1]

Originally posted by david petley
former_muslim...



I think I need to clear something up here as you keep harping about it....

You gave up your right to freedom of speech when you agreed to our rules. If you did not intend to do so, please re-assess your membership here.

We can edit and delete and remove what you say...you told us we could do so.

You cannot take that right away from us now that you have gained entry to the site...since we are talking morals on this thread, such behaviour would be considered by me to be immoral.

davidp.

While that may be true David, former_muslim has NOT breached any rules.

Surely to goodness since not 1 obscene word or hateful line has bee uttered in this thread by any one inlcuding former_muslim, why not let the conversation flow?

If he wants to discuss a topic or put his view forward on this thread, why badger the guy, to the point of making him feel unwelcome?

If no one is interested in what he has to say no one will answer on his comments, why hound the guy ? his points are boring? dont post, easy.

I think that he will soon pick up how far he can express himself in the CL.

Some people come here from other forums for the first time and are quickly put into place, never to return, why not welcome them instead and then kindly point out the rule of conduct here in FK?

And he is right, its easier to post a thread criticising and ridiculing Jesus and/or Christianity here in the CL than to do the same with other religions.


Tony

[donbotsini]

Originally posted by XU1
And he is right, its easier to post a thread criticising and ridiculing Jesus and/or Christianity here in the CL than to do the same with other religions.

your right there, i suppose its similar to the way nobody finds the word 'honky' offencive yet other racial slurs are

[flipshark]

Originally posted by former_muslim
Eventually, everyone will be either athiest or agnostic. There are 850 million of us in the world, increasing.

Are you sure about your numbers?? I thought it was closer to 2 billion. That of course is when you take into account that there are well over 1 billion buddhists in the world (look at the population in China alone), and that buddhism has no god. Thus meaning most of its followers are religious/spiritual but still atheists (don't believe in god).

For those who try and tell me the Buddha is a god. The Buddha is not a god. In fact anyone potentially can become "a Buddha" as it is a title referring to one who reached enlightenment. Again, Buddha is a title and not a person. The religion is just centered around one the first Buddhas and his teachings, NOT a god.

[japangreg]

Originally posted by former_muslim
Why then the extreme moderation if Islam is mocked? Christianity mocking is fine, but no no, Islam must'nt be mocked. My thread for Quranic wife beating was closed down 2 times (even in the CL)!
This shows you its possible to mock Christianity here, but not Islam. Interesting.. !

I think you are missing the point here. That site was mocked because it was a clear attempt at religious propaganda, an underhanded attempt to encourage children to become intolerant of other religions. Find a site similar to that for Islam and believe you me, we'll mock it.

No one started a thread titled "Christianity Sucks!!" or "Preview my alter boy raping game".

I also think you need to realize that all major religions have their dark sides, religious texts of all faiths have some contradictory/evil-sounding passages in them. That doesn't mean that the religion itself is evil. You say that the Quarn teaches men to beat their wives: so is every Muslim a wife-beater? Everyone here knows that's not true, so the point is moot.

[breadlegs]

Originally posted by former_muslim
If he did, I would pray to him right now to give me the ability to fly, but he doesnt.

He may give you a plane ticket.

[asun2art]

Heroin makes people feel good, too. The problem with faith is not how it makes people feel. The problem with faith is what it makes people do. When people act solely on faith--without any recourse to reason--tend to do very stupid things.

Just a few examples:

-Christian scientists who pray in lieu of medication
-Islamic fundamentalists who fly planes into buildings
-Christian fundamentalists who handle poisonous snakes, thinking their faith will protect them from their venom
-Orthodox Jews who throw rocks at ambulances on the sabbath
-Christian mothers who kill their children because God "told" them to
-Christians who kill homosexuals because the Bible says homosexuality is an abomination
-Christians who murder abortion doctors
-Muslims who blow themselves up amongst crowds of women and children, yelling "God is great" before doing it

And so on and so for. Clearly not a complete list. The complete list would take days or weeks to write out.

But because I was once a Christian and now an Atheist I can respect both sides. So what if it goes against logic? If some people decide to comfort themselves with faith, who are you to say that that is "pointless"? It does them for what they want to achieve, and isn't that the only thing that is ultimately important? As long as it brings people joy and self reasurance -Fine with me.



why are we discussing religion on a flash board again? Soemone must have a case of the "Mondays"...

[Ask The Geezer]

Originally posted by asun2art
But because I was once a Christian and now an Atheist I can respect both sides. So what if it goes against logic? If some people decide to comfort themselves with faith, who are you to say that that is "pointless"? It does them for what they want to achieve, and isn't that the only thing that is ultimately important? As long as it brings people joy and self reasurance -Fine with me.

If they would stick with the "comfort themselves with faith" part, 'themselves' being the keyword, I would have no issue with that. But very few do. [keyword]Organized[/keyword] religion is the bane of all mankind. The proof is everywhere. Because so few see that, it's my opinion that faith and is a mental aberration that needs to be cured. Those who use that aberration to organize followers ought to be outlawed, for the good of their followers.

No, I am not a radical.

[yasunobu13]

A few points I would like to address

Originally posted by former_muslim
To that, yasunobu13 responded by suggesting I was forcing religion down other people's throats.

That is not what I intended, and I applogize if that's what you got out of my comment. It was about those who actually do force religion (or non religion) down other people's throats. I have no idea if that includes you.

Originally posted by iaskwhy
If they would stick with the "comfort themselves with faith" part, 'themselves' being the keyword, I would have no issue with that.

I agree with you here. Religion (or lack of) should be personal. I don't care if your proud of who or what you are. People who feel the need to convert others to their way of life, whether it be "belive in my god" or "don't belive in god" need to realise that most people are comfortable with what they believe, if they aren't then they will seek you out.

And if I hear one more thing about our reptile brains, I'm going to scream.

[asun2art]

Originally posted by yasunobu13
if I hear one more thing about our reptile brains, I'm going to scream.

It's the Medula Oblongata.....

[former_muslim]

XU1
I'll ignore what david petley said but I hope he got your point.

Flipshark
I checked my numbers again to make sure I was right and I was:
http://chinaunique.com/educate/religion.htm

From a Westerner's viewpoint, Buddha and Buddhist temples are a big part of the culture. In actuality, there are only about 100 million buddhists in China.

Another website says 68 million consider themselves buddhists
http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~p.../chinrelg.html
Another confirms 100 million buddhists in China:
http://tse.dyndns.org/~sktse/stats.htm
so 100 million looks like a rough estimate.
Buddhists in the world seem to be from 250 million to 500 million, which I didnt know. I thought it would be much lower.
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

A good table showing all the populations:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/statistics/
You see there "Atheist/Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic" as 850 million, another site mentions them as 900 million.

japangreg

You say that the Quarn teaches men to beat their wives: so is every Muslim a wife-beater? Everyone here knows that's not true, so the point is moot.

Mohammed ordered his followers to kill anyone who leaves Islam, yet not every muslim kills those who leave Islam. The point is that any single action of killing those who leave Islam - is based on the teachings of Islam. Definitely this is a matter of concern. Also this wife beating could be a clue to abuse of women in Muslim countries:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3631743.stm
I'm not saying that abuse doesnt happen in America! Every 9 seconds there, a women is abused. But beating sanctioned by a religion could definitely have connection with a higher rate of abuse.


asun2art
You're right, as there are Muslim building bombers, there are Christian abortion clinic bombers.

why are we discussing religion on a flash board again? Soemone must have a case of the "Mondays"...

You forgot this is the CL with a Religion thread. Other sections of the board give you exclusive sections for Flash discussions.
What there should be is an exclusive section of "Philosophy and Religion" and then this board should be fine.


I should leave now. I came to get the game done and that couldnt be done here, so its cool. I dont wanna be putting up tensions on this board for moderators or PC guys- i have other stuff to do as well. if anyone wants to learn about Islam more, visit www.faithfreedom.org
A high five to all atheists/agnostics, you did it, you are evolved, you believe in yourself and you're free! good work, however you got there.

[PAlexC]

I think you have a serious chip on your shoulder. You came into this board with a mission and a point to prove on a highly combustible topic. That typically doesn't go over well.

[japangreg]

Originally posted by former_muslim
japangreg

Mohammed ordered his followers to kill anyone who leaves Islam, yet not every muslim kills those who leave Islam. The point is that any single action of killing those who leave Islam - is based on the teachings of Islam.

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Bible isn't eating meat on a Friday a sin punishable by death? Working on the Sabbath? etc.

So is every person murdered on a Sunday a victim of Christianity?

You have to understand that sometimes wife beaters are wife beaters first and Muslim second, as much as they try to make it sound the other way. You have wackos in every religion, doing all sorts of things and pointing to passages in ancient texts to justify it.

This is also a Flash related board with a religious thread, not a religious board with flash threads. This isn't an opportunity for people to break out the soap box, it's a place for those that share a common interest to discuss things other than shop.

[PAlexC]

Originally posted by japangreg
Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Bible isn't eating meat on a Friday a sin punishable by death?

Actualy no, that was a scam the church started a long time ago to help support Italian fisherman. I still do it though, just out of habit. Besides, I like fish.