Oh My God, I'm actually taking Bush's side here

[flipshark]

Let's keep this short and sweet.

A terror warning is issued in the US regarding financial institutions based on 3 year old info. Some people think 3 year old info is too old, unreliable, and not worth making a fuss over.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ty_alert_dc_27

Ridge defends it, Bush does too...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...s_040803165051

And for once I actually agree with Bush on this one.

I mean who cares if the ORIGINAL info came from as far back as 2000, It was updated in January of this year, and if terrorists have 3+ years to plan an attack I am sure they can pull it off.

So they beefed up security.. If the info is real, and not provided by "curveball".. I say protecting human lives is worth the extra bit of money.

In my opinion, people are starting to realize they didn't criticize Bush when they should have (IE going to war) and now are looking for any opportunity to do so.

Think of it this way, if an attack was pulled off because security wasn't "beefed up" and we later found out they knew about it 3 years in advance, how would people react?

Your opinion??

[PAlexC]

People DID criticize Bush for going to war. Remember all those protests? That's besides the point.

I mean who cares if the ORIGINAL info came from as far back as 2000, It was updated in January of this year, and if terrorists have 3+ years to plan an attack I am sure they can pull it off.

But if that's the case why the alert now, not earlier? I think that's the argument people are making.

I'm more disgusted with the rhetoric Ridge used in his speech. He could've just come out and made the announcement, but he didn't.

Dons fire-retardant suit.

[nordberg]

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

i think going public with this information will certainly help stop the attack.
the 9/11 attack was almost cancelled because of zacharia moussaoui arrest...
can you imagine how quick it would have been cancelled if details of the actual attack got out?

[TallGuyLittleCar]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm..._intelligence_8

On Monday, a Pakistani intelligence official said Khan, a computer and communications expert, had sent messages to suspected al-Qaida members using code words — a practice typical of the international jihadist organization that bedeviled U.S. efforts to unravel the Sept. 11, 2001, plot. But the Pakistani official refused to say if Khan was part of al-Qaida.

Khan's information has been merged with other pieces of intelligence, including information gleaned after Pakistan's arrest last month of a senior al-Qaida operative named Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani.

E-mails that included plans for new attacks in Great Britain and the United States were found on the computer of the captured Ghailani, Pakistan's information minister, Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, said Monday.

But it was Khan and the information found after his arrest that was mostly behind the decision to raise the government's terror alert for financial-services buildings in New York, Washington and northern New Jersey — to orange, or high alert.

U.S. officials have said that the trove of hundreds of photos, sketches and written documents that led to Sunday's warning about new risks of terror attacks came largely from a Pakistani computer engineer, Mohammad Naeem Noor Khan, also known as Abu Talha, who was captured in mid-July in Pakistan.

The information was discovered by the u.s. just now or after mid-july, not a few years ago.

[PAlexC]

The news wires are kinda crossed right now. Some mention it, others don't.

The backlash is also part of the public's frustration with the way the alert system has been used in the past.

[japangreg]

Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar
The information was discovered by the u.s. just now or after mid-july, not a few years ago.

Yep; the info is years old, but our knowledge of it is not.

The only problem I've seen is that now there's a conspiracy theory about how this was timed, coming on the heels of a suscessful Dem. convention and the beginning of an upswing for Kerry (watch the headlines over the past few weeks: Kerry, Edwards, Kerry, Kerry, Alert, Alert, Alert...)

I don't think it's politically motivated, and I'm all for trying to prevent these attacks with stepped up security (despite the fact that every street around my building is now shut down...) but it's just become such second nature to suspect the decisions of this admin. that it's hard not to look at it as if they are hiding something.

Ridge didn't help that when he came out and accredited the new info to Bush's aggresive stance on the war on terror...

*edit*

``We don't do politics in the Department of Homeland Security,'' Ridge said. ``Our job is to identify the threat.''

All those that still believe this, raise your hand...

[PAlexC]

They announced a vague alert after Edwards was chosen, that ticked people of a bit.

I'm not saying the alert wasn't justified, but I think the way Ridge handled it was a bit propogandish, no?

Good afternoon. President Bush has told you, and I have told you, when we have specific credible information, we will share it.
...
But we must understand that the kind of information available to us today is the result of the Presidents leadership in the war against terror. The reports that have led to this alert are the result of offensive intelligence and military operations overseas, as well as strong partnerships with our allies around the world, such as Pakistan. Such operations and partnerships give us insight into the enemy so we can better target our defensive measures here and away from home

The terrorists should know, in this country, this kind of information, while startling, is not stifling. It will not weaken the American spirit, it will not dampen our resolve, for our resolve is indivisible and unyielding which is a weapon infinitely stronger than the plots and the plans of those who wish to do us harm.

Al-Qaeda wants to intimidate us and prevent us from enjoying our lives and exercising our freedoms. And yet, liberty has no greater protector than the collective will of the American people. So, together let us take inspiration from this strength, and use it to our utmost to keep our great nation safe and free.

Full text.

If I were the CIA, FBI, Pentagon or whoever, I'd be a little ticked that the Director of Homeland Security said that this windfall was the result of the President, and not the hard work of the folks in these agencies.

[flipshark]

Originally posted by PAlexC
People DID criticize Bush for going to war. Remember all those protests? That's besides the point.

Perhaps criticize was the wrong word there, but I think almost all of us can agree that we should have known the info on Iraq was fake, forged, biased, inaccurate, (take your pick of words), BEFORE the war was launched not after.

However I don't want to get off topic so I'll leave well enough alone.

[yasunobu13]

Originally posted by PAlexC
It will not weaken the American spirit, it will not dampen our resolve, for our resolve is indivisible and unyielding which is a weapon infinitely stronger than the plots and the plans of those who wish to do us harm.

Al-Qaeda wants to intimidate us and prevent us from enjoying our lives and exercising our freedoms. And yet, liberty has no greater protector than the collective will of the American people. So, together let us take inspiration from this strength, and use it to our utmost to keep our great nation safe and free.

Did he lift this directly from one of Bush's speeches or do they share a writer? Remember, we're turning a corner.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Originally posted by PAlexC


If I were the CIA, FBI, Pentagon or whoever, I'd be a little ticked that the Director of Homeland Security said that this windfall was the result of the President, and not the hard work of the folks in these agencies.

It actually seems to be the work of pakistan.* Didn't the lounge used to have a regular poster from pakistan.

the relationship with pakistan can largely be attributed to w.

[aversion]

Slighty off topic but I liked the bit where ridge said "we don't do politics at the homeland security department..." I almost fell off my chair laughing.

I think these constant terror warnings, threat levels and colour coded indicators are not helping anything, just pushing america further into a culture of fear and isolating them. Many other countries have been plagued with terrorism for years and have always taken a steady course when it comes to these things, at time warning people to be vigilant but never creating the kind of quasi-hysteria there is around these announcements.

The homeland security dept probably isn't as responsible for this as the media is, but I do wish they would stop with the constant warnings no one in the public can do anything about.

However, this kind of specific information from a direct source, even if it's old, is worth an announcement in my opinion, but I think they went about it clumsily and with too much rhetoric, I do think there is an element of politics in this.

[robbmcaulay]

WHO CARES

Lighten up...

[japangreg]

Originally posted by robbmcaulay
WHO CARES

...me.

Who, if driving, will be subject to 3-4 traffic stops just to get off the street I work on.

May not mean much to you, but it does effect some people's lives.

[Subway]

I heard over here that the infos where found on websites? Three years on a website ... oh please. Most news sources over here that I've seen think that it's just for the election ... me too actualy, but I'm to lazy to research it on the web, just wanna let you know how the news think about it over here.

Fredi

[Visionray]

Originally posted by Subway
I heard over here that the infos where found on websites? Three years on a website ... oh please. Most news sources over here that I've seen think that it's just for the election ... me too actualy, but I'm to lazy to research it on the web, just wanna let you know how the news think about it over here.

Fredi

that's really quite a shocker.

[yasunobu13]

The major U.S. financial institutions identified in a recently disclosed al-Qaeda surveillance operation are not believed to be at imminent risk of attack, two federal law enforcement officials with knowledge of the investigation said Tuesday.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...dge-usat_x.htm

[aversion]

look on the bright side, at least the price of oil went up again.

[Hellsbellboy]

Originally posted by japangreg
Yep; the info is years old, but our knowledge of it is not.

The only problem I've seen is that now there's a conspiracy theory about how this was timed, coming on the heels of a suscessful Dem. convention and the beginning of an upswing for Kerry (watch the headlines over the past few weeks: Kerry, Edwards, Kerry, Kerry, Alert, Alert, Alert...)

I don't think it's politically motivated, and I'm all for trying to prevent these attacks with stepped up security (despite the fact that every street around my building is now shut down...) but it's just become such second nature to suspect the decisions of this admin. that it's hard not to look at it as if they are hiding something.

Ridge didn't help that when he came out and accredited the new info to Bush's aggresive stance on the war on terror...

*edit*
All those that still believe this, raise your hand...

Think that's pretty stupid.. how is a Terrorist alert going to improve Bush's ratings in 1 day? The US News Gallup poll was taken Sunday and extended to monday I believe.. and it shows clearly Bush with a 5% lead over Kerry.. I very very very highly doubt in that few hours of time that "Bounce" of Kerry's LOL 'sucessesful' DNC convention would change that fast.. if it was so sucessesful.. Kerry's problem is he still hasn't defined who he is.. what he stands for.. he want take up any of the hard issues.. and best he comes up with is.. we'll have to wait till he's president till he tells us his policy..
If they would have gone on alert Before the DNC convention they would have been complaining about that too.

I do agree about Ridge's comments giving Bush credit..

[Hellsbellboy]

Originally posted by aversion
Slighty off topic but I liked the bit where ridge said "we don't do politics at the homeland security department..." I almost fell off my chair laughing.

I think these constant terror warnings, threat levels and colour coded indicators are not helping anything, just pushing america further into a culture of fear and isolating them. Many other countries have been plagued with terrorism for years and have always taken a steady course when it comes to these things, at time warning people to be vigilant but never creating the kind of quasi-hysteria there is around these announcements.

The homeland security dept probably isn't as responsible for this as the media is, but I do wish they would stop with the constant warnings no one in the public can do anything about.

However, this kind of specific information from a direct source, even if it's old, is worth an announcement in my opinion, but I think they went about it clumsily and with too much rhetoric, I do think there is an element of politics in this.

What the do you think we are doing over here? If people were so scared, then those people in the buildings that are on alert whould have one good reason to not show up to work, but they did.. plus with the power outage a few months ago, i don't exactly remember people running around screaming in terror.. If anything.. the constant terror alerts are making people ignore them, and go complacent. I think your perception of quasi-hysteria comes from the media and not from what is really happening here.

[PAlexC]

I find it highly inappropriate that Ridge took the time to praise a President during an election campaign, and repeat the rhetoric found in his speeches. He should've come out, made the announcement, answered questions, and ended the conference.

At the very least, it made Ridge look like a kissass.