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Thread: cheap software: scam, con, illegal or legal?

  1. #1
    ? tonytryout's Avatar
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    cheap software: scam, con, illegal or legal?

    I received it by email.

    your thoughts?
    Last edited by Markp.com; 09-08-2004 at 11:38 AM.

  2. #2
    Moonlight shadow asheep_uk's Avatar
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    Looking at the address and the fact that they call them "MicroSoft" I wouldn't trust them if you gave me the money.

    However, I don't know if you are allowed to sell OEM copies to consumers - I doubt it somehow.

  3. #3
    ? tonytryout's Avatar
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    yes that's what I was thinking the same -- maybe this particular company is dodgy but in general are companies allowed to sell OEM software to consumers?

  4. #4
    No I can't do it by tommorow.. 1stbite's Avatar
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    No OEM software should only be issued as part of bundled software with complete computer systems.

    The idea is that the computer companies are offered cheap no frills software disks so they can offer better deals to there buyers, and at the same time get there software populated on more machines so when the next version comes out they hope the user pays for the upgrade, or buy another PC with the new version on which cost about the same what they sell it to the computer companies for (software that is not the whole pute ), so both ways they win, they only lose on the first version but in the long run its a winning idea.

    :edit:

    and no thats not a genuine deal, the whole site screams SCAM... they would probably take the money and run, and at the best (if your really lucky, or is that really unlucky ) you will recieve a pirated disk that you can't go crying to the police about as they will say serves you right from buying from a dodgy source, take the software of you, and you lose your money...
    Last edited by 1stbite; 09-08-2004 at 10:13 AM.
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  5. #5
    ? tonytryout's Avatar
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    I was not going to order anything from that place -- I was just wondering whether it was illegal, scam, etc.

    so you are saying what this company is doing (selling OEM software) is illegal?

  6. #6
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    Re: cheap software: scam, con, illegal or legal?

    Originally posted by tonytryout
    I received it by email.

    your thoughts?
    Look at that domain name - that's a scam my friend. No reputable business would have that.

    Beyond that, the concept (selling OEM) is legal in SOME situations. MS Windows can be purchased in OEM versions IF you also buy hardware (some will make you buy a whole system, some will let you get away with just buying a can of air), but that's not the point - it's not LEGAL unless you follow the licensing, and if you're not an OEM qualified user, it's not legal in the strictest sense of the word.

    Generally, anyone selling you software cheaply, and marketing using SPAM is going to:
    1) Give you stolen license keys and burnt cds,
    2) Use your credit card to their heart's content.
    Last edited by Markp.com; 09-08-2004 at 11:40 AM.

  7. #7
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    Also found in their FAQ (nice of them to provide that):

    What do I get when I order something from you?
    You get the CD(s) with the software in an envelope. You also get the activation key, serial number or CD key necessary to activate the software. Note, that you will not be able to register the software with the manufacturer and get technical support.

    Yep, that pretty much guarantees that these are known-pirated license keys.

  8. #8
    ? tonytryout's Avatar
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    random_fool: cheers for the reply. So in other words, buying OEM software is legal IF it comes with some form of hardware.

    I better report this company to MS and get my reward then

  9. #9
    Phantom Flasher... Markp.com's Avatar
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    Link removed Nads...

    As far as I'm aware you can't sell OEM software to home users...

  10. #10
    ? tonytryout's Avatar
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    sorry man, I was just about to remove the link as soon as I found out the selling OEM software to consumers is illegal.

    cheers for doing the dirty work for me, darling.

  11. #11
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    Unbundling software is legal in the US. There is a whole string of court cases involving this Softman v Adobe and Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc comes to mind first but there are several other cases besides that one. There was even a case where they purchased Bundled software with hardware and unbundles it and the courts ruled it legal, can't think of the paticular case at this moment.

    I even dug up some of the case law;

    Softman v Adobe http://cryptome.org/softman-v-adobe.htm

    http://www.cacd.uscourts.gov/cacd/Re...56b48007a04cd/$FILE/CV00-04161DDP.pdf

    In these caese the EULA was no good becuase they did not agree to anything. No contract signing no limitations.

    Not only that but many states regard a Sale of Software as a "Sale" under the UCC and thus there is no pre-emption protection from the doctrine of first sale. Thus a license (Contract) which said that you could not resell the software in those states is pre-empted by section 109 of Title 17 (US Copyright Law). This of course will vary from court to court though, as some courts have allowed the licensed and not sold argumnent. See Vault v Quaid for a good rulling of pre-emption;

    http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw...t_v_Quaid.html


    Now is this legit... Probably not. Also a lot of these email resalers are ripping people off. One of them that I got listed Red Hat Linux 7 at $200 which is odd becuase Red Hat split it's Linux offerings between Enterprise and Fedora at Version 9 and is at version 3 for the entrprise and 3 RC 1 for Fedora.

    Anyhow if you are watching copyright law Golan v Ashcroft, Kahle v Ashcroft looks interesting as does Emmily Somma v GOSH.


    Now as far as the DMCA and how it figures into all this. You could be stopped from accessing the purchased software with activation. The DMCA makes it ilegal to circumvent anti Access schemes even if you lawfully posses the copyrighted materials. See 321 Studios v MGM.

  12. #12
    hmmm...
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    A good example of a legit company selling OEM software is newegg.com. They have tons of OEM software. For example, Windows XP Home OEM is $90: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-141&depa=0

    But, yes, it says "*Must be Purchased with Hardware!!*"

    BTW, newegg.com is a great place to buy computer stuff, especially hardware.

  13. #13
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    see... this is proof positive that people do indeed open their spam mail.

    anyway, yes... this is pure scam. as it's been said before - I think this makes the fourth time I've stated it...

    here's one... here's another... there's another one, but I think I used a different word other than scam.

    [ Hello ] | [ gerbick ] | [ Ω ]

  14. #14
    Moderator whispers's Avatar
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    well my company sells OEM products to consumers.. and IT IS legal. As long as it accompanies soft piece of hardware. Now what is considered "legal" hardware to accompany your OEM? not sure...

    but we send them ANYTHING.... seriously.. mice, old video cards...etc..etc.. keyboards. And ours can be activated, registered..etc..etc.. not sure about price comparrisons as i did not see initial post.


    -whispers-

  15. #15
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    OEM sales are indeed legal with hardware purchases for most sales agreements - such as Microsoft for instance.

    But that aforementioned link wasn't OEM software... it was repackaged stolen software... or "warez"... and that's not legal...

    [ Hello ] | [ gerbick ] | [ Ω ]

  16. #16
    Moderator whispers's Avatar
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    ahh..-ok

    actually our owner somtimes buys from 3rd party vendors in BULK....

    and every once ina while we get some total RIPS..like home made burns..with 72DPI printed CD sleves and labels..LOL

    Also if anyone is every looking for software... I can get some decent deals depending on what it is.. basically cost at national vendors like www.ingrammicro.com ..and sometimes WAY below cost thee if we buy in bulk...

    -whispers-

  17. #17
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    Here's some good links for you Cyber Law Watchers...

    http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/
    http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/home/
    http://www.law.berkeley.edu/cenpro/samuelson/

    Two activist sites;
    http://chillingeffects.org/
    http://www.eff.org

    And all the SCO v Insert Name related court rullings, filings, ect http://www.groklaw.net


    Anyhow the shrinkwrap license enforcebility is under scrutiny. Some courts say yes we agree with the Licensed and not sold while other courts have said, No, What exactly are you licensing... of course you sold it.

    You really should read the Softman case.

    Whether contracts such as Adobe's EULA, often referred to as "shrinkwrap" licenses, are valid is a much-disputed question.15 A number of courts that have addressed the validity of the shrinkwrap license have found them to be invalid, characterizing them as contracts of adhesion, unconscionable, and/or unacceptable pursuant to the Uniform Commercial Code. Step-Saver, 939 F.2d 91; Vault Corp. v. Quaid Software Ltd., 847 F.2d 255 (Sth Cir. 1988). These courts have refused to recognize a bargain in shrinkwrap license that is not signed by the party against whom it is enforced. In Step-Saver, the Third Circuit found that the terms of a contract were formed when the parties shipped, received and paid for the product. Therefore, the software shrinkwrap agreement constituted additional terms to the contract, and under Uniform Commercial Code 2-207 (governing commercial counter-offers), these terms were invalid without express assent by the purchasex. In contrast, other courts have determined that the shrinkwrap license is valid and enforceable. ProCD, 86 F.3d at 1453; Harmony, 846 F. Supp. at 212.

  18. #18
    ? tonytryout's Avatar
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    Originally posted by gerbick
    see... this is proof positive that people do indeed open their spam mail.

    anyway, yes... this is pure scam. as it's been said before - I think this makes the fourth time I've stated it...

    here's one... here's another... there's another one, but I think I used a different word other than scam.
    this spam was sent to my work email and I have never published my email address anywhere.
    I did not "open" it -- the message was displayed in the preview panel.

    FYI: this is my first spam in my work email address.....

    In any case, the point of this thread was the legality of selling OEM software to the public.

  19. #19
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    dude, I was joking.

    if it makes you feel better, I got one sent to me a while back on an address that officially didn't exist to the outside world.

    but it still got through... somehow.

    [ Hello ] | [ gerbick ] | [ Ω ]

  20. #20
    ? tonytryout's Avatar
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    hehe -- same here, mate.

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