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Thread: Banned head scarfs, now banned habits...

  1. #1
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    Banned head scarfs, now banned habits...

    The stupid, discriminatory headscarf ban for Mulsim women in parts of Europe has now had what can only be said as deserved rollon effect for nun's habits. Now let's hear the religious right complain about this...

    One can only hope common sense will eventually win out and the original ban will be reversed (though since when has common sense meant anything...?):

    -----

    A German federal court has reportedly ruled that a regional ban on Muslim teachers wearing headscarves in public schools must also apply to Christian nuns.

    The Federal Administrative Court has ruled that a law passed in April in the south-western state of Baden-Wuerttemberg was unfair because it only applied to Muslim women yet permitted Christian symbols, reports news weekly Der Spiegel.

    Nuns, who often work in public schools in the predominantly Roman Catholic Black Forest region of the state, will now be required to remove their habits before entering the classroom.

    "Exceptions for certain forms of religiously motivated clothing in certain regions are out of the question," the federal judges of the court based in Leipzig, eastern Germany wrote in their ruling as quoted by Der Spiegel.

    The author of the state legislation, law professor Ferdinand Kirchhof, told Der Spiegel that nuns' habits were considered to be "professional uniforms" in the region and thus exempt from the religious symbols law.

    Germany's highest tribunal, the constitutional court, ruled in September 2003 that Baden-Wuerttemberg was wrong to forbid a Muslim teacher from wearing a headscarf in the classroom.

    But it said Germany's 16 states could legislate independently to ban religious apparel if it was deemed to unduly influence children, which has subsequently created a patchwork quilt of varying rules throughout the country


    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...406465436.html
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  2. #2
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    as far as i understood the muslim headgear was banned because it was a political statement and not a religious requirement.

  3. #3
    Phantom Flasher... Markp.com's Avatar
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    Hmmm... what next? Those skull caps Jewish blokes wear?

    They should ban Burbery caps, no wait, they should just ban Chavers

  4. #4
    Senior Member littleMatt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Markp.com
    no wait, they should just ban Chavers
    Here bl00dy here!

  5. #5
    Retired Mod aversion's Avatar
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    Originally posted by darkstar
    as far as i understood the muslim headgear was banned because it was a political statement and not a religious requirement.
    I thought it was all overt signs of religious affiliation in school, head scarves being the most obvious.

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by darkstar
    as far as i understood the muslim headgear was banned because it was a political statement and not a religious requirement.
    actually it is a religious requirement and not a political statement.

  7. #7
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    did someone say banned ?

  8. #8
    Stuck In The 90's
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    Originally posted by GMF
    did someone say banned ?

  9. #9
    Chaos silverx2's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Markp.com
    Hmmm... what next? Those skull caps Jewish blokes wear?

    What do those represent anyways? to place they will begin blading? they cant keep your head warm, noot possible. they cant keep it dry either. or block out the sun, i dont see and realistic purpose for thos little things so why wear it?

    anybody?
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  10. #10
    Retired SCORM Guru PAlexC's Avatar
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    My understanding is that it's symbolic of covering your head before God.

  11. #11
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    The " foulard" in question is a political , not a religious, symbol. Designed in Lebanon in 1975 and imposed by force in Iran in the 1980s, it has never been sanctioned by any Islamic religious authority in France or anywhere else. Radical Islamist political groups use it as one of their symbols.

    Thus Chirac is wrong to present the " foulard" as a means by which Islam is trying to extend religion into the public space.

    Even then, the " foulard" concerns very few Muslims in France, or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

    The French government's own statistics show that no more than 2000, out of 1.8 million Muslim girls, wore it in 2002. A number of studies conducted in various Muslim-inhabited suburbs in France shows that more than two-thirds of girls wearing the " foulard" do so because of intimidation by organised Islamist gangs. But Chirac, instead of passing laws to protect those girls from intimidation, is suggesting legislation to punish them at the gates of schools.

    http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/1271

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    STRASBOURG, France (Reuters) - Banning Muslim headscarves in state schools does not violate the freedom of religion and is a valid way to counter Islamic fundamentalism, the European Court of Human Rights says.
    http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7695-.html

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by darkstar
    The " foulard" in question is a political , not a religious, symbol. Designed in Lebanon in 1975 and imposed by force in Iran in the 1980s, it has never been sanctioned by any Islamic religious authority in France or anywhere else. Radical Islamist political groups use it as one of their symbols.
    Well, one viewpoint, granted. Not sure if it's the only possible correct viewpoint however.

    STRASBOURG, France (Reuters) - Banning Muslim headscarves in state schools does not violate the freedom of religion and is a valid way to counter Islamic fundamentalism, the European Court of Human Rights says.
    http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7695-.html
    And if that's a valid way to counter Islamic fundamentalism then banning habits is a valid way to counter the spread of an organised religion that I don't believe in.

    Sorry, but banning of any religious wear is plainly ludicrous, as this German court decision is indicating. Whatever the origin of the headwear may be (and I seem to recall some other religious practices that are less about religion and more about something that was introduced over time for other reasons?), it is now regarded my many as representative of a certain religious belief. Maybe not one you follow, but certainly one that others do.

    As someone said somewhere, address those who are forced to wear something against their will, not those who choose to out of respect for a religion they believe in. Unfortunately that would be common sense, something severely lacking in this debate in most parts of the world.
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  13. #13
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    Oh, and look, it's a law introduced by Mussolini that's being used to try to ban head scarfs in parts of Italy now...

    http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20ar...ad%20Scarf.htm

    So, fascist when Mussolini introduces it, but not now?

    God, will common sense ever prevail again???



    ----------

    Oh, and the info that the "hajib" (to use it's correct English translation) is a political statement and not a religious requirement would not seem to stand up to serious investigation:

    ---

    The scarf is not about the oppression of women, she said.

    "I am a professional woman who works, I am involved in many activities in my own right. It's important to realise that Muslim men also have dress codes, and the women's hijab also acts as a reminder to them to preserve their dignity."

    "The covering of the head is something that is commanded by God, not man," added microbiology student Monowara Gani, 20, who decided in her first year at Nottingham University to add the face veil to her hijab.

    "I can't explain why, it's something between me and God. I think it was the best decision I ever made. I know it looks different, and maybe some people think it's wierd, but I am so happy.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3805733.stm

    ---

    Q. What are the requirements for Muslim women's dress?


    A: Rules regarding Muslim women's (and men's) attire are derived from the Quran, Islam's revealed text, and the traditions (hadith) of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). In the Quran, God states: "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and adornments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers...(a list of exceptions)" [Chapter 24, verses 30-31] Also, "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons...that they should be known and not molested." [Chapter 33, verse 59]

    In one tradition, the Prophet Muhammad is quoted as saying: "...If the woman reaches the age of puberty, no part of her body should be seen but this --- and he pointed to his face and hands."

    http://www.islam101.com/women/hijabfaq.html

    ---

    So disagree if you want with religious text being used to decide what people wear (and that's another discussion) but we should certainly respect those who have made the choice to do so...

    What's next? Banning of mullets because they are worn by rednecks, who are definitely a danger to our society??!

    (hmmm... that's a thought.... )
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  14. #14
    I'm the good one! XU1's Avatar
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    I think this whole banning of head scarfs is ridiculous, for once I have to agree with you, where is the line drawn if you start with head scarfs?

    As long as they dont use the "religious requirement" argument NOT to take their face covering off when required to do so, when go for a drivers license, or a Passport, or if they have to be identified at airports.

    Then I'm fine with it.

    Tony

  15. #15
    Mom said "make me a Mod" el-Ignoramus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by XU1
    I think this whole banning of head scarfs is ridiculous, for once I have to agree with you, where is the line drawn if you start with head scarfs?

    As long as they dont use the "religious requirement" argument NOT to take their face covering off when required to do so, when go for a drivers license, or a Passport, or if they have to be identified at airports.

    Then I'm fine with it.

    Tony

    This post scares me....

  16. #16
    Old Member gecko2's Avatar
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    Kick the habit
    Keep it rural.

  17. #17
    I'm the good one! XU1's Avatar
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    Originally posted by el-Ignoramus
    This post scares me....


    I deleted the 300 word rant when the medication kicked in...


    Tony

  18. #18
    Mom said "make me a Mod" el-Ignoramus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by XU1
    I deleted the 300 word rant when the medication kicked in...


    Tony

    Next refill is on me

    Although I missed you last thread, at least you don't resort to name calling from the first post, plus you always did it with style...

  19. #19
    I'm the good one! XU1's Avatar
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    Originally posted by el-Ignoramus
    Next refill is on me

    Although I missed you last thread, at least you don't resort to name calling from the first post, plus you always did it with style...
    Thanks I take Injections now the liquids and Pills dont seem to work fast enough..

    I'm just passionate about some things..




    Tony

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