Is it possible that some people just cant design?

[The Scotsman]

Hey all,


Im at university on an art based degree i guess. (has design in the name).

Anyways i realised how extraordinary boring i find design. And traditional art... well put it this way, there has been one piece of art i have seen.

Miro's "Blu"

Its my personal believe that "art" in its traditional form is really just a posh persons work with contacts. Thats all "art" is. Some people i have met produce some amazing suff in traditional form yet when you goto a gallery most of the stuff is just offensive on the eye yet its classed as art because daddy had contacts and provided them with a path.

The thing is, im extraordinary anxious to create a site because i have pumped thousands of hours in Development work. Learning everything i can about specific development tools.

Max, AE, Flash, actionscripting, xhtml css ya know, the list goes on. Bear in mind if im not enjoying myself with friends or with my girl then im on the PC/reading books about pc stuff.

I have had a chat with my course leader about the fact i just didnt turn up for any of the lectures involving art because i find it embarasing to sit and cut paper up and things like that, its not a skill to me, its something i did when i was 4 years old with my glue stick and my recyled paper.

I am probably offending people here lol but this is my own opionion to please dont flame me.

Anyways its got to the stage im so comfortable with the technologies behind how sites work, that i want to be able to put a showcase of skills up on the web along with a tutorial site to help out some mates at uni.

DESIGN!

I cant do design, i know what looks good but i cant get anywhere, Imoffended when people rip sites, i find it pathetic so when i do see a website that i think WOW! I tend to stray away from it just remember it as a pinicle of the web and because i feel like this, i would hate after 4 years to put a website up just to get "you copied this" "you ripped that" "oh look its 2advanced".

And i know this happens, alot of the time i put it down to jealousy. This is especially true of the 2advanced haters. "oh thats crap" "what a awful site" "whats the deal" "i hate the colours" blah blah blah. These people are just Jelous. I personally dont see why it got the fan base it did but i believe thats down to me not understanding the design side of it. Even so i have great respect for the work they do, i just dont follow it.

So Even know i know what i want to create and i see the nav in my head and i see how it should function. Im so clueless with colours, space, typography, etc that i cant actually ever get passed the splash screen. I have 100s of flash experiment from flash 5 till now in a folder and some of them are actually pretty wierd but because i have no template to hold this, they stay in the folder on my F drive and always will.

I have been told by my lecturer, no one wants the skills i have. Anyone can learn how to use photoshop and after effects etc but that was a real blow hearing that.

Have i really just wasted my life?

I also got told that you cant learn design out a book when i asked for books on design. Although thats not what i think is possible, i just cant seem to get accross my point on what i mean. Everything i do is just flat and even if you look at other sites for insperation, you cant just rip it off.

If a question says "design a product using elton john as a label" (thats made up). I get stuck on "Design...". How can you design something, if you dont ever know what design is. You can make a nice boreder in photoshop and apply layerstyles and the like to it but in realistic terms there is always something missing.

I have read about colour theory and the likes, how grays compliment all colours blah but this means nothing if the site looks like its created by a 12 year old.

With my lack of respect for the arts, and the fact even when i was a kid i used to moan to get paper and crayons and when i did i just used to sit and look at the page, now 15-18 years later im sitting with my palette on q digital medium with that exact same block.


So the question is,

Can i actually ever be a designer or for some people, is it just best left to others? If you cant swin, stay out of the swimming pool type thing.

I just want to know so opionions would be quality.

Cheers.

Ronson

[robbmcaulay]

First of all, are you actually Scottish? If so, where are you and what do you study?

I am doing a BA(hons) in Computer Arts at Abertay.

Design CAN be tought, design is functional, ALWAYS. It's always for a purpose, the art is in learning how to approach the purpose and seeing what is required.

If you feel you can't design and all your produce is rubbish, just stick at it! It's because you've been exposed to high quality work at uni that you compare, you obviously need to have a good eye for your course so you're maybe being too critical?

But design can definately be learnt, stick to the books...

Try this book, and knock up some templates, then visit the Site Check forum for feedback.

[asheep_uk]

I can't be bothered to read all that, but I read the last couple of sentences and I can tell you that we had a thread like this a few months ago. Many people agreed that it cannot be learnt, whereas others said it just takes longer for some than others.

[robbmcaulay]

Reminded me of this thread

We ripped it out of that guy

[admedia]

I can't be bothered to read all that

Me neither.

My thoughts.... I think if it is something you enjoy and want to strive for, you should work at it. It may be intimidating to compare yourself to experts work here... there are alot of them I admire quite alot and it gives me inspiration to try harder and take my design to the next level. There is also alot of chaff to make you feel better as well .

I guess what it boils down to is working and trying things... looking back at what you have done and making it better next time. Eventually you will find your own unique voice or style and be a good designer.

Good luck.

[Markp.com]

Yup, rant is too large... I don't think good design can be taught... you can be taught to use flash, but a good designer wont use 10000 shape tweens and ugly rainbow fades.

The ability to Design is something you either have or don't.

[sk8Krog]

Design process can be taught and good design can be shown, but I think good design is something someone is born with or they aren't. But don't let it discourage you. Design's background is in art, so you are technically on the right path. The "useless" stuff you are learning now will come in later in the game once you actually start design classes. You should be learning about the history of art, art basics (color theory, composition, etc) and that is important in anything you design. What you have to do now is take all the artsy fartsy stuff you are in now, and apply it to design.

[krona]

I got 'A' after 'A' in my art/GD class, without putting in any monumental effort, and it made me wonder why other peoples work generally sucked (for lack of a more descriptive word) even though some of them had very competent drawing skills.

I figured that the difference between me and them was that I was far more receptive to other illustrators work, actually absorbing and figuring out how things 'just work' with regards to composition, colour, texture etc, instead of just saying "oh, thats nice" or "wish I could do that". I used to buy Computer Arts just to look at the commissions for that magazine, not for it's content...

I know what looks good

I think thats all you needed to know to be good at design. Do you really know what looks good, and do you know why it looks good?

[The Scotsman]

Hey!

Rob: Yeah im scottish but im in Liverpool doing a degree, better lookin girls :P

Yeah see, the thing is i know what not to do and what to do simply from having read so much over the past few years.

MarkP: See thats just the thing, i refuse to tween unless its for a tiny detail, infact im even so hapyy with Actionscript 2.0 and OOP these days and thats what i love to do, 5 months ago i was really lost, MX seemed such a massive jump from Flash 5 and i was kinda scared to get back into it but im back to speed again. Only everything i do looks rank.


Mk8 & MarkP = I have said this to her, i seriously dont think you can learn how to be good, you have to have the eye for design the same way a poet has a ear for words. If you dont have an interest in design you dont really care what looks good. You just know it does.

I do know what looks good, but only as a whole. You can write RONSON in a nice typeface but then what, you can take that a bit further too, but its still boring, RONSON might look good with a special kind of background or tint but i only know what looks good once it has been made.

Obviously you can look at certain work and think ahhhhhhhh thats nice i like the way he has ....... but when you have a clean sheet of paper you dont know if say scanlines are going to work for a garding site. Obviously not but you see what i mean?

So what can i do with my life?



Admedia: This is a good point actually, see the skybee site we talked about before? That along with Teknision and many others is the kind of style i like and what im into, nothing else looks good in my eyes (well it does but coolsites is full of nonsense these days). I love how easy it is on the eye. No other style i have time for (again i do but i find most stuff just nonsense). Maybe good desingers dont have such closed opinions such as mine.

[zakp0]

but when you have a clean sheet of paper you dont know if say scanlines are going to work for a garding site. Obviously not but you see what i mean?

That has a name. White paper phobia or something that sounds just as silly.

See, I did a design/arts degree at Ox, and they had an awesome strategy there. We were made to work with every other designer/student that was there all the time, we had so much pressure on us, a lot of workload, we didnt even have time to think about whether we're designing good or not. When you're under pressure you just gotta get things finished. Thats when you dont even know it and you're actually learning.

Thats what happened at the good ole Vir2l studio (now people dont lock this thread coz I brought that up). Bradley joined up as a rookie and he worked with a team of amazing designers only to return as an amazing designer himself. Personally what I think you need to do is to stop thinking about the theory of learning how to design. You're never gonna get anywhere if you're gonna ponder on how to build the path to it. You build the path as you go. If you dont keep an eye on your goal (of being a good designer) and instead concentrate on your path, you're gonna get lost in the way somewhere. Thats exactly whats happening to you right now.

You've obviously been shown awesome work (happens when you're on the web) but since you're not as good you cant reproduce any work as good as that. You cant quite compare yourself to big studios like 2A or FI because, like I said before, they too are working in a team under pressure all the time, that REALLY helps creating amazing work. All the creativity energy (my new phrase for the week) around you tends to run into you too. I dunno, its sounds stupid but it happens. Thats the thing about design - dont question it. It'll just happen.

Stop being depressed too, you sound like you've got a bit of a designers block really (and those can REALLY get annoying). So go out, have some fun, come back, get on MSN/AIM whatever you use and talk to people (designers preferrably) as you work. Your teacher might have just said that to get back at you because you dont get to her classes (or because you clearly said you dont like doing all that silly art work).

Just quit worrying and try to work with other people at the same time. Work in groups. Its sort of like forced learning that way. You ask questions around they give you feedback, and your "eye" for design gets trained. Once the "eye" is trained, there's no stopping

Hope I helped

[gerbick]

Even with a design degree, I still think that some people just have a design "knack", whilst others just don't.

Some people can imitate, some people innovate. But honestly, I've said it all before... some people aren't meant to be designers. I own a guitar... I sure as hell ain't a guitar player. I strum for hours on end, but a song? Never.

I don't consider myself a designer. I just like to make pretty pictures at the end of the day. And I have fun doing just that.

But having a spot in your life where you can't design... that's natural. I didn't draw, design, or even pick up anything remotely artistic one time for 3 years. Nothing. Just felt like I could do anything worth a damn anymore. But learning the fundamentals, keeping a backlog of images and paintings that were made when I was active and creative really helped me out big time. When it was time to start back designing, I had stuff that I once did to start back over with. You'll find that you will have days where you can't even draw a straight line, design a brochure, pick a good font, find two colors that go well together.

It happens. How you deal with that now will show how you'll handle that pressure when it's your ass on the line at your future job.

[nordberg]

i have a developer on my staff who knows how to put together great training in flash and authorware, but can't design to save his live. i'm not exagerating. if you tell him to make a 'text box', he will use link blue text, times new roman, left justify the title then center the body, you name it. he literally cannot see design. he will never learn it, and more importantly, i firmly believe that he couldn't even if he wanted to. so, i do feel that you either have it or you don't.

[zakp0]

No, developers are instinctively stupid when it comes to design. And thats true whether you like it or not. Its because they dont WANT to design. They want to program. If you dont WANT to do something, you'll never be able to.

What gerbs said about keeping your previous good work in close proximity's also right. Nothing helps better than looking at your own inspiring work. Heck, rip yourself all you want then heh. I face a different problem to you though, I find my own work uninspiring although other people might like it. Now THAT is a hardie.

[gerbick]

No, developers are instinctively stupid when it comes to design. And thats true whether you like it or not. Its because they dont WANT to design. They want to program. If you dont WANT to do something, you'll never be able to.

What gerbs said about keeping your previous good work in close proximity's also right. Nothing helps better than looking at your own inspiring work. Heck, rip yourself all you want then heh. I face a different problem to you though, I find my own work uninspiring although other people might like it. Now THAT is a hardie.

dude. I'm a developer - well, have been for the last 7 years - and I think you've seen some of my photoshop battles here at FK. I'm a "decent" designer... I know, that's a stretch.

But still... you have to have the skill, or don't. But not all developers don't have the ability the see design. Some are basically the boxes and squares types. What nords just described is basically a developer that's definitely lacking that designer vision.

I knew developers that were better designers than they were coders... and they were damn good coders. It all matters on how you are "made up"...

[zakp0]

I didnt know that...I guess there're a few exceptions :\
I just remembered Nevil...

But still, practically every developer I know tries not to have anything to do with design. And they also seem to think that us designers have it easy.

[Ask The Geezer]

I agree with sk8Krog, either your born with it, or your born without it, you can't learn art. Practice will make you better, but you either have the spark to start with, or not.

And those who do will never understand these kinds of discussions, mostly cause they just don't, can't, know what it's like to not have the gift. My dad was real good with pastels and paint. He could draw a horse and it looked real. He was always after me to learn it. I tried for years. I can draw a horses head fine, and it looks exactly like a boot. It will always look like a boot, cause I wasn't born with the gift.

[luvenny]

Yes, I, for one, a living example.

I can't design no matter how many good books you fed me.

[zakp0]

You guys are idiots. Give him support from getting through this and making him beleive he can rather than he cant. Telling him how he's doomed not to be a good designer because you're hopeless aint gonna help him at all.

[MsPamela]

ALL OF YOU need to work on your ENGLISH books!! LOL I could understand if you were not native English speakers.......

Design is like playing music. A person can learn to read notes and play the music but they have to have an ear for it, to play with emotion. The same goes for design. You have to have an eye for it. But, then there are companies who look only at the earned degree! So do what your heart tells you.

[Ask The Geezer]

You guys are idiots. Give him support from getting through this and making him beleive he can rather than he cant.

You mean, like lie to him?