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Thread: Websites alienate Firefox users

  1. #21
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
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    I will never ever again use a MS browser to surf the web, even if IE has a 99.9% marketshare.

    Fredi
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  2. #22
    FK's Geezer Mod Ask The Geezer's Avatar
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    My point is if you concede the web to Microsoft now then they are effectively free to do with it what they want.
    No offence, but do you live in a cave? With 90% of the world using PC's running Windows and IE, they do own the web.

    Altho, I'll admit it's slipping. Last time I checked my stats, 15% were Mac and FF. Flash in the pan, hopefully.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway
    Every client that got a website designed by a professional webcompany that doesent test their client sites with all popular (IE,Firefox,Opera,Safari) browsers should go to court to get their money back, seriously. That's like selling a car that only drives on the main streets.

    Fredi
    Try taking a Porsche or Ferrari down a dirt road, or one with speed bumps.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by random_fool
    Try taking a Porsche or Ferrari down a dirt road, or one with speed bumps.
    lol. That comment induced a painful flashback I would care to forget

  5. #25
    Senior Member ihoss.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
    if 90% fo the audience is using IE, wouldn't IE really be the true standard?

    It's like driving on the highway, sure the speed limit says 55mph, but if you in the fast lane doing 55, you are going to cause all kinds of problems.
    W3C sets the standards. Its like saying that since there are so many murderers, the law must be wrong and they right.

    I make sure my site works according to the standards and then I'm happy. I use this for validation and it is amazing (I can tell you that this page has 2 errors and 149 warnings!)

  6. #26
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihoss.com
    W3C sets the standards. Its like saying that since there are so many murderers, the law must be wrong and they right.
    The law in the u.s. says the speed limit is 55, but if you go 55 in the fast lane your are going to cause an accident.

    Try taking a Porsche or Ferrari down a dirt road, or one with speed bumps.
    Cayenne?
    ONLY RON PAUL AND ALUMINUM FOIL CAN SAVE YOU NOW!
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  7. #27
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    Well the defacto standard is IE, yes, but the w3c has attempted to implement standards of it's own. However IE's failure to comply has taken a lot of the wind out of their sails, so to speak.

    That said, I have a number of issues with the standards that the w3c has imposed. They're incomplete, and in some cases just more difficult to deal with than what they were supposed to replace.

    And many of the proprietary functions that IE tried to implement, are kinda interesting from a design perspective and were mostly not addressed at all by the w3c.\

    For instance, to do a fading slide show in gecko, you have to have 2 images superimposed over one another, and fade the top one out, so it appears the blended together. That means 2 loops in your function. But then you run into Gecko's opacity bug. When reaching 100% opacity, or decreasing from 100% opacity, page elements "blink" in gecko browsers. You can minimize it by stopping just short of 100%, but you can't eliminate it entirely. Opera doesn't support the attribute at all.

  8. #28
    (sic) Covenent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iaskwhy
    No offence, but do you live in a cave? With 90% of the world using PC's running Windows and IE, they do own the web.

    Altho, I'll admit it's slipping. Last time I checked my stats, 15% were Mac and FF. Flash in the pan, hopefully.
    I am well aware that most of the web user run IE, just incase you did not care to even think about what I said my point is that no 1 company should be in charge of how the web is run - which is effectively what you are doing the minute you concede that you should design only for IE.

    I am sure you would just love if it tomorrow Microsoft decided that in order to support IE development costs it would now include ads, and that keywords within every webpage will now contain links that are 'recommended by Microsoft'. I mean IE has the biggest share right? Why would you even consider using something else?

  9. #29
    FK's Geezer Mod Ask The Geezer's Avatar
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    my point is that no 1 company should be in charge of how the web is run
    Why not? It's obviously not working now, the way it is. What with all the primadonnas trying to get their two cents worth in.

  10. #30
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covenent
    I am well aware that most of the web user run IE, just incase you did not care to even think about what I said my point is that no 1 company should be in charge of how the web is run - which is effectively what you are doing the minute you concede that you should design only for IE.
    Not necessarily. MS does put its standards on their website much the same way w3c does. What makes w3c any more holy the MS? If the other browsers wrote their browsers for MS instead of the w3c, you would then be designing for all browsers.
    I am sure you would just love if it tomorrow Microsoft decided that in order to support IE development costs it would now include ads, and that keywords within every webpage will now contain links that are 'recommended by Microsoft'. I mean IE has the biggest share right? Why would you even consider using something else?
    If MS did that I think Firefox and linux would become quickly popular. MS is popular becuase the do their best to make things easy for the average joe and not piss off the user.
    ONLY RON PAUL AND ALUMINUM FOIL CAN SAVE YOU NOW!
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  11. #31
    FK's Geezer Mod Ask The Geezer's Avatar
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    M$ didn't make all that dough from being hard to use. And it works. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

    Oh, yeah, right, I forgot, individuality and the Mutual Admiration Society want to stick their fingers in the pie.

  12. #32
    (sic) Covenent's Avatar
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    W3C is more holy than Microsoft when it comes to the web because they invented the web as it is today. They consist of all the major parties who have interests invested in the web. They as a group define what the web should be for its users, and not what the web would be under 1 companies desire for profit - wheter than company be Microsoft, Netscape or Mc Donalds.

    For God's sake is it really that hard to not right IE only Javascript etc.?

    From now I swear I will only design for and use IE because 90% of the rest of the Internet does. Now excuse me while I go and get on a bus out of here. Oh did I mention that this bus does not have a disabled ramp installed because 90% of its daily passengers are able bodied and so it isn't worth the time or money installing one.

  13. #33
    FK's Geezer Mod Ask The Geezer's Avatar
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    what I said my point is that no 1 company should be in charge of how the web is run
    They, [W3C], as a group define what the web should be for its users, and not what the web would be under 1 companies desire for profit
    W3C is made up of humans? Humans can be corrupted, take bribes, kickbacks. Why not let the one who already has half of the worlds money be the standard? Who could bribe them?

    And what's the problem anyway? This sounds a lot like people who hate Bill Gates and will cut off their nose to spite their face, just so they don't have to use MS stuff. I would imagine MS is fully as capable of setting a standard as anyone else is. Let the people decide. The standard that they like will be THE standard, no matter what the W3C says.

    </whip dead horse>

  14. #34
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
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    Don't get me started! MS was not even able to make a PC and Mac version of IE that displayed basic html the same way, they even released IE updates on the PC that made things that where designed for previous releases look different. How should a company like that be able to define web-standards? They are not even able to follow their own standards! And did you read what they now try to do with RSS? RSS (and everything XML) was designed to separate data (and datastructure) from design and code. Now what do they do with their new RSS definition? They add logic to it! I not even want to mention possible abuses of that logic, the real problem is that RSS (and XML) was made because there was a need for a format that only contains data and no logic or design!

    MS did never care about any standards, not the standards of the W3C and not the standards they defined on their own. They not even get the basic idea behind a format like RSS! A company like that should never and can never be the one that defines the official standards.

    Fredi
    Mind Share Projects [ <- my latest projects ] [ my splash page -> ] Fredi Bach
    OS X Code (r,s) [ my Mac, web 2.0 and programming blog ]
    Not A Blog [ my personal weblog ]
    jMe Feed Aggregator [ my latest most famous project ]
    Web Command Line [ use the web like a real geek ]

  15. #35

  16. #36
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    MS did never care about any standards, not the standards of the W3C and not the standards they defined on their own. They not even get the basic idea behind a format like RSS! A company like that should never and can never be the one that defines the official standards.
    i am getting a distinct impression that you don't like M$
    i think it may be worth waiting until M$IE7 comes out before condemning Microsoft IE out of hand, before firefox was on the scene microsoft had no competition, Ii seems M$ may have learned a lesson or two.

  17. #37
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
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    I was surfing the web at a time where MS did'nt even have a web browser at all.

    Fredi

    PS: Ihoss, why the smilie change?
    Mind Share Projects [ <- my latest projects ] [ my splash page -> ] Fredi Bach
    OS X Code (r,s) [ my Mac, web 2.0 and programming blog ]
    Not A Blog [ my personal weblog ]
    jMe Feed Aggregator [ my latest most famous project ]
    Web Command Line [ use the web like a real geek ]

  18. #38
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    I was surfing the web at a time where MS did'nt even have a web browser at all.

    Me too, With a 14.4 modem that was almost as big as a video and netscape if my memory serves me.
    ps, whats your point?

  19. #39
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
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    Because:

    Quote Originally Posted by darkstar
    before firefox was on the scene microsoft had no competition


    MS is only the leader because IE is installed by default on >90% of all PC's.

    Fredi
    Mind Share Projects [ <- my latest projects ] [ my splash page -> ] Fredi Bach
    OS X Code (r,s) [ my Mac, web 2.0 and programming blog ]
    Not A Blog [ my personal weblog ]
    jMe Feed Aggregator [ my latest most famous project ]
    Web Command Line [ use the web like a real geek ]

  20. #40
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    MS is only the leader because IE is installed by default on >90% of all PC's.
    correct me if i am wrong but did'nt IE beat Netscape in the browser wars?
    if
    One in 10 UK websites fail to work properly on the open source Firefox web browser
    could'nt that be part of the problem too?
    if firefox is able to sort these problems out then i may migrate but at the moment it seems that IE is the Swiss Army Knife of the web.
    other members have stated their feelings about the wc3, it seems the wc3 are having problems with their own standards.
    its got to be a good thing to have standards but its a pity when compromise rears its ugly head, compromise can only mean less inovation and a net loss of technology.

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