And he was brazalian

[gerbick]

Ouch!!!! What a world we are living!

Sorry for all, folks, maybe I am not acostumed with that kind of thing.
Here, in Brasil, we have not this kind of problem. Yet.

Actually, you do have that kind of problem in Brasil. Don't turn a blind eye to some of the cop/profiling atrocities that happens there.

And yes. As an innocent person, I've been stopped in over 15 countries and 30 American states by cops for all sorts of things from dropping my keys and I didn't quite hear them to asking me questions about my destination and/or whereabouts.

Doesn't matter to me one bit. I've never done anything illegal. Search, frisk, just don't imprison me. People that panic from cops, they usually have reasons.

[aversion]

Ok, but I keep beating the same key: the way you dress yourself make you a suspect people?

So many times I went out from home in the morning with a jacket because was cold, then the day got hot and I just kept wearing the jacket to not need to carry it. It turns me a suspect person??????

It was far more than what he was wearing. What made him suspect to the police was a number of things different things:
- they were told he had left an address where they believed terrorists were staying.
- they followed him with this information in mind to a tube station where they identified themselves as police and told him to stop.
- he was wearing a thick jacket on a hot day as a suicide bomber might.
- he ran from the police and onto the train.

Instead of stopping he ran into the tube station and aboard a train with policemen running after him telling him to stop. He spoke perfectly good english, he had been in England for three years. I can imagine that in Brazil, where your policemen are internationally reknown for their corruption and criminal activities, it might be normal to run from the police, but in England, following several terrorist bombings and attempts it is not.

Given the same circumstances again I hope they don't hesitate to do the same thing to a terror suspect running for the train.

[aversion]

Here, in Brasil, we have not this kind of problem. Yet.

You don't have a terrorist problem but you sure as hell have a gigantic criminal/police corruption problem.

[gerbick]

Britain is about as trigger-happy as my great-grandmother... read: not at all...

Most of the cops in the UK don't even carry guns. That shocked me the first time I went there.

[MagnusVS]

A trigger happy country? Do you have any idea of the level of gun use in England, the number of times policemen have to shoot someone? Compared to your country it is almost negligible.


You don't have a terrorist problem but you sure as hell have a gigantic criminal/police corruption problem.

LOL! When saying trigger-happy country, i was commenting his post about usa and oil in the middle east, not the cops in britain.

"Here, in Brasil, we have not this kind of problem. Yet."
Where do i say that?
If you take a look under my avatar, i live in norway, and i dont remember writing that quote. (like britain, norwegian police doesn't carry guns either)

[aversion]

LOL! When saying trigger-happy country, i was commenting his post about usa and oil in the middle east, not the cops in britain.

"Here, in Brasil, we have not this kind of problem. Yet."
Where do i say that?
If you take a look under my avatar, i live in norway, and i dont remember writing that quote. (like britain, norwegian police doesn't carry guns either)

heh, sorry man, I changed my post, got mixed up with who said what

[yankmoura]

Hahaha!

You all are sooooo worried about to defend your own countries...
Hehehe, ok, guys, stay this way and keep being shooted!

Hahaha!

[gerbick]

Hahaha!

You all are sooooo worried about to defend your own countries...
Hehehe, ok, guys, stay this way and keep being shooted!

Hahaha!

huh?

[Olly K]

yankmoura.
I don't care how old you are you are thinking like a child "a man got shot they murdered him" "he was brazilian, they're racist". Don't be so naive.

What would you rather they do? Let they guy jump on the train and risk him blowing the whole thing up? So people of many countries could ahve died? Would that have pleased you more than a suspect acting highly suspiciously dying?

They may have been wearing normal clothing but they would have most likely shouted 'Police, stop'. And yes if someone with a gun told me to stop I would stop. A gun is a projectile weapon, if I run they could of shot me, granted they may shoot me if I stopped but the likelyhood would of been they would of taken my money and beat me, I'd rather than that a shot to the head. And lets face it, why would someone try to mug you with a gun in the middle of the day surrounded by witnesses? And why did nobody else run?

Yes all the people on tv say he was a good person, wouldn't of hurtt anyone. Well if you are so up to date with your news on terrorism in England you should most probably know about the boy from Gloucester who was a terrorist. he went to the crypt school. MY school. Some of the teachers that taught him are still there. They say that he was a lovely lad, wouldn't hurt anyone. Well he did. So you can't go on people's views of a person.

And you're last comment is just utter bs. Why would we not want to defend our country? Yeah silly us, we should let these people walk all over us.

[indivision]

lol. when people get shot in Brazil (and they do aplenty) it's always for better reasons than those in the US or UK.

nobody is saying the guys death is a good thing or that mistakes by police are to be applauded. i can imagine ways it could have been handled that would have had a better result. but, i still cant blame the officers. theres a better case to be made that his death was residual of the terrorists actions than of some policy us misguided westerners want that involves shooting ourselves.

[aversion]

Hahaha!

You all are sooooo worried about to defend your own countries...
Hehehe, ok, guys, stay this way and keep being shooted!

Hahaha!

riiight, and it's nothing to do with wanting to defend the british police, they have already admitted the mistake, but the way you're talking it's like this is something that happens here on a regular basis, your diatribes are full of hype. This is a one off incident, nothing more, there is no endemic problem with shootings by the police in England. You seem to know nothing of society in England.

Perhaps you're so excited by all this because you live in a country with not only one of the highest murder rates in the world but where more people are probably wrongly killed by the police than are shot in England by criminals. If either of our countries has a systemic problem with law enforcement shootings it's yours.

[ViRGo_RK]

Remember, guns don't kill people, rappers do. He was a rapper, and he wanted to kill you.

*cue cheesy british rap*

[MagnusVS]

i can imagine ways it could have been handled that would have had a better result.

I still think they should've stopped him a long time before he reached the tube station. If they really thought that he was a terrorist, they were risking many people's lives.

[ViRGo_RK]

I can imagine ways as well, but then again we weren't there. We don't know all the factors.

Hindsight is 20/20, as they say.

[indivision]

exactly. being able to imagine how things could have been better doesn't automatically indicate wrong doing. being a police officer is a tough job. i have a couple of friends who are officers and facing the reality that they could be killed on the job or that a mistake by them could cost the lives of others is a real stress for them and their families. some of their stories are really crazy.

[SpockBert]

exactly. being able to imagine how things could have been better doesn't automatically indicate wrong doing. being a police officer is a tough job. i have a couple of friends who are officers and facing the reality that they could be killed on the job or that a mistake by them could cost the lives of others is a real stress for them and their families. some of their stories are really crazy.

Couldn't agree more, I think the police have done a great job since the bombings, in fact all the emergency services, its a thankless, dengerous job and it infuriates me when people put the boot in. Think you can do better, you quit your cushy desk job and put your ass on the line, lets see you jump on a suspected terrorist knowing he might be a human bomb, lets see you pull some bodies out of a train.

Just been driving back listening to Talksport, I'm normally a huge fan of Mike Dicken but the way he's having a go at the police sickens me, like they shot this guy for a laugh.

The thought of getting back on the train to work tommorrow makes me wanna retch but I do take one small crumb of comfort knowing if anyone runs on to a train after being told to stop the police wont hesitate to neutralise them immediately. I very much hope the recent criticism of the police and public pressure doesn't change that.

[yankmoura]

Ouch!

Hehehe, people, you are in a bad mood today eh?
Hehehe, dont get this too serious, this is just a friendly discussion.



By the way, some uninformed people here told something about brazilian and racist... I cant remember who, but maybe some ignorant one, that do not knows that Brasil is a multi-race country like USA. Hahaha!

Hehehe, it doesnt matter. But it's funny.

Hehehe.

[indivision]

It's all good man. No unfriendliness intended from me. Just disagree about this one.

[TheOriginalFlashDavo]

Got a few questions from things I've read both here and in the media I want cleared up before I can really have a clear viewpoint of this unfortunate incident:

1. I read that the guy was leaving an apartment building under surveillance, not the actual apartment.

2. Did he really get on a bus before reaching the tube while being followed? And how far did he walk from his place to the tube, how many other opportunities wre there for him to be confronted? Big, big worry here, if there was an earlier opportunity to confront him in an area where he may have been able to be surrounded easier or with less people/noise then this is a major operational concern.

3. How clearly did the police/special forces identify themselves when they did? This will be very important to be clarified (and I'm certainly not going to base to much on "eye witness" accounts quite yet, that "wires under the jacket" thing was pure BS, so shows how reliable some people's perceptions are in the heat of the moment. Usual media BS to grab hold of any single eye witness account without verifying it - as some seem to do on this board too often too).

This is a really difficult situation to be in, for all concerned. I'm hoping proper procedures were followed, and if so then you have to say a really, really unfortunate error. However if someone stuffed up in any of the areas above (or maybe something else I've not thought of) then they do have to be accountable. But need to wait for all the facts before lynching anyone.

And for all those dismissing it too swiftly as merely unfortunate, put yourself in the shoes of his family. I think you would certainly want the entire truth to come out. While a mistake may happen under the current stressed, it's still not excusable if it could have been avoided, so we'll see.

The shot 5 times in the head thing is a little disconcerting, whatever the truth. 5 times??

[david petley]

...and I am just glad that I am not his father, not married to his mother, not a child of his grandparents.

A world where police can shoot people on suspicion of anything is a pretty screwed world, no matter where you live.

My sympathies go out to his family, more innocent victims of a war against terrorism.

dp