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Thread: [disk] the pseudokiller of flash

  1. #1
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    Feb 2004

    [disk] the pseudokiller of flash

    What you think about this?
    To me, seems that the only 'good' point in move to this sperkle thing is make 3d stuff...nothing that director or plasma cant do...and only when this thing cames to most browsers...and since (according to this guy)the plugin for other browsers will not be 3d, and since more and more people are now more into firefox tham IE, this sperkle will never be in 99% of the browsers, the same way as flash is
    Anyway, 3d sux.It takes a year to see the simplest thing in 3d, to donwload it...not even close to the speed of the heaviest fake 3d made in flash
    [edit]anyway 2: As Tonypa sayd, flash has become the bigest plugim not becouse of heavy programers who make programs to run nuclear reacors, but becouse it was easy and fun to learn for normal people and designers, like the one who made this http://faraday.physics.utoronto.ca/G...arrison/Flash/
    and this microsoft will never chenge, and heavy programmers already can make things in java, and i dont know what to say anymore
    Last edited by Incrue; 11-19-2005 at 11:52 PM.

  2. #2
    M.D. mr_malee's Avatar
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    Dec 2002
    i'll never leave flash, not even if tonypa himself resigns from flash development. No way is sperkle going to dominate the market, as quoted by Satori Canton "Seriously, when was the last killer app that came out of Microsoft?" my point exactly. The last good thing microsoft ever did was make 3d movie maker, that thing kicked arse.
    lather yourself up with soap - soap arcade

  3. #3
    Senior Member tonypa's Avatar
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    Jul 2001
    I am too old to like 3D so for me its not something to look for

    I personally think MM is killing Flash with its own Flex project and countless actionscript versions which will divide up the userbase and make it too hard for beginners. As for MS Sparkle, its more likely that MS will buy Adobe then make true Flash-killer.

  4. #4
    Yes we can tomsamson's Avatar
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    Sep 2001
    Team Titan Secret Lair
    i think you got a point there with the countless AS versions.
    Sure,a language has to evolve to not fall behind but i too have the feeling some things went heavily wrong there in the evolution process.
    In my eyes the real mistake MM made was Flash 7. Its IDE was clearly heavily lacking fine tuning and heavy beta testing;to say it was buggy and constantly crashing (before the update) on my home system (which was upper middleclass at that time) wouldn´t have been exageration.
    It also lacked any worthy designer feature additions and as it turned out later the language introduced wasn´t well thought out to the end or more heavily lacking implementation on the core codebase and the component architecture was different than in V1,hard to charge if it was really an improvement having all its downsides in mind.
    In my eyes it would have been way wiser to introduce the designer additions coming with f8 in f7 and in return come up with AS3 and the new VM in Flash8,not Flash9.
    In my eyes its also really a clear mistake of the current release cycle concept that they are focussing on designer improvements in the one release and coder additions in the next one. This concept was introduced with flash7/8 and it does not work well at all,as the sell rates and user base moaning about f7 showd. Also as the slow adoption of AS2 on the broad userbase shows.
    They should again choose the system where features are added equally for both groups.
    If AS3 and VM2 were so advanced that they could release a dev tool making use of it less than two months after the release of F8,its clearly a heavy take by them to not delay the release of F8 for a few months to release it with the full VM2 AS3 glory,next to its great designer additions.
    As it is now,i can already see a slow adoption of AS3 in the broad userbase approaching as most designers skip the coder only releases.
    But yeah,not saying this to show how much better one could have decided how to handle things,because afterwards that´s always easier to anyone,so nothing speical.
    I´m just saying it as i hope MM avoids such mistakes in the future.
    Having such "mistakes" in mind,i agree with the comment that such decissions could actually kill flash (or at least narrow the user base a lot with time),no need for a contender.
    We´re developing applications at the office,too. So i know the saying applications are never finished,they just get released is true in a way. At some degree a company has to release a product cycle to keep up with costs.
    But yeah,there´s a (sometimes) subtle gap between releasing something at unfinished state or with too few or wrong additions and hitting it well with sufficient features and reasonable low bug count and high usability.
    (In case of Flash8 it would have been a few months at most to integrate AS3 and the new VM).
    With flash the situation is that it has a very wide user base,ranging from pupils playing around,to designers,coders and various other sorts of groups,so its surely hard to make all happy with a release. But going the one release coder features,one release designer features way it won´t work out well in the long run i think.
    That said,i was attracted a lot by the sparkle ide and its feature set.
    The IDE seemed to do things right and in an easy to use way as i was expecting from the flash ide for many years. The same goes for components and integrating various media. The ones who actually have really worked on complex RIAS using flash will probably remember too good into how many issues one can run with the V2 components of f7/f8. Its really tempting to have a replacement for that which just works and looks nice (and is also easy to skin).
    Everything shown in the sparkle UI seemed well thought of and fully implemented to the end (though one surely has to try it out to see if there´s heavy lacking sides). Even if not doing 3d stuff,the sheer performance boost of hardware acceleration is what many flash users have dreamt of for many years.
    So before this gets more and more sounding like a pro sparkle speech,i will just shorten it up to the core point: Sparkle has many great ideas and features shown,i strongly wish MM has the eyes wide open and will implement as much as possible of the good ideas (and then some more own) into the Flash IDE,components and general workflow
    (because i´d like to have such things in flash rather than using an MS product which is (no matter how its argued against it) tied to a OS family in one way or the other).
    No more semi halfbaked releases clearly showing the current cycle had to be released please (also none in style of "come on,we´ll just use those features we have worked out for flash to pimp flex for half a year before we add the stuff to flash" as current policy suggests),also no more "this time for coders,next time for designers" moves and yeah,i (and not only i) could surely enjoy flash fully and for a long time,in a time when the last spark of sparkle is already gone for a long while.

  5. #5
    Senior Member UnknownGuy's Avatar
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    Jul 2003
    Intersting link.


    I agree with the too many flash versions.

  6. #6
    better than chuck norris
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    Jun 2004
    West Coast of Michigan
    us hardcore dudes will always be bloodbrothers... even till the end *tear*sniff-sniff

    (my sad, military last minute normandy style quote of the day)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Santuria
    us hardcore dudes will always be bloodbrothers...
    Iam at work but I had to post this.

    SO CUTE!

  8. #8
    better than chuck norris
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    West Coast of Michigan
    macromedia power! *in tears while rising with one arm raised to an army bunker full of dirty soldiers with bullet wounds

    no but seriously. i dont wanna sound like a conservative twat, but i'm never changing. windows/bill gates will have to give me money AND sparkle AND suck my weiner to get me to switch. i dont think it stands a chance.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Raleigh, NC
    windows/bill gates will have to give me money AND sparkle AND suck my weiner to get me to switch.
    I hardly ever post on threads like this (random discussions) but that made me laugh out loud really hard. Everyone in my office is staring at me while I type this...

    Sorry, that was just too funny not to comment.

    More on topic though... Although I don't do game development, the little bit of flash application development I still get to do allows me to share in your frustrations here. I have really just started getting into AS2.0 and when I heard that there was going to be yet another language change I was pretty disgusted. The language needs some more time in the oven before they pull it out and put in a new loaf.

    share your games with thousands
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  10. #10
    better than chuck norris
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    West Coast of Michigan
    agreed. ^

    leason rocks.

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