For ALL flashers to read

[freeFromIt]

Hi,

I'm self taught in flash. I started with version 5, then on to MX(6).

When mx2004 came along I was first introduced to a feeling I call ''how often are they going to re-write the language?''

But despite that, I went ahead and devoted a harcore 6 months to learning the mx2004 revisions, and along the way my output window 90% of the time gave me error messages.

Well here we are at version8. The language has once again changed and become more complex. In many cases, unnecessarily.

Here's the punchline:

In less than 6 months the next major revision to actionscript is being released. Actionscript 3.0 .
In Actionscript 3.0, there are changes made to things most of us haven't even grasped yet.
There are a lot (and I mean a f*ing ton) of changes, even changes made to the core of the language so that most of what you know right now isn't going to be valid or usable in a few months.

My conclusion is, that it will be a constant. We will study and learn and sometimes struggle. With some luck and a lot of time, we might even grasp the whole language and be able to render any effect desired.
But rest assured, macromedia will re-write and render useless all of your hard-earned knowledge about every year or so.

My message to them:'you took millions of loyal users and chucked them into the garbage...Then you did it again, and then again....in 6 months you will do it again.... eff you forever bored greedy pigs'

[McUsher]

I don't get you...
You can still use the scripting language of even Flash 1, if you don't want
to use the _good_ changes they did over the years...

[Blips]

Ya, change is good when it comes to programs like flash. Its the same as saying, we should stop putting out new types of cars because people shouldnt have to keep learning how to use the new features ( like cruise control ). Why not just stick with the 1920 cars

[dudeqwerty]

going form AS2 to AS3 will be easy anyway, and there wasnt any "new concepts" to how you code in flash 8, theres just a few more datatypes and built-in functions

[EQFlash]

Ya, change is good when it comes to programs like flash. Its the same as saying, we should stop putting out new types of cars because people shouldnt have to keep learning how to use the new features ( like cruise control ). Why not just stick with the 1920 cars

I agree. Just because flash upgrades doesn't mean you have to. You can set the version of actionscript to any version available, as1 or as2. You can also pick whatever player you want to publish the swf file in

[swak]

There are reasons why they're doing a lot of upgrading. For instance: upgrading speed. If they stuck with flash 5 actionscript 1, then flash wouldn't be able to compete with other superior languages like java. At least now actionscript has a chance. If you've done any testing to compare 7 mx and 8 you'll notice a big speed improvement. If you go to their website, they have an example that demonstrates the advantages of 8 to 7 mx.

[McUsher]

Yeah,and even, if you know like java, flash is getting easier and easier..
And not more difficult, like "freeFromIt" stated..

[FlashGuru]

Mmmmm.... Macromedia are just giving their customers what they need and what they ask for..... Actionscript didnt change in Flash Player 8, it does however change in Flash Player 8.5

Actionscript 3 just makes sense, it's how Actionscript 2 should have been. The learning curve isnt that steep if your coming from Actionscript 2.

[cancerinform]

As we all know whichever version of a program we see it has its limits and the next version adds features we all wanted to have. Complaining about the new version is complaining about any progress. I am a cancer scientist and I understand what freeFromIt wants to to say because of the speed of new findings and coping up with it and staying competitive. But it is my job and if I don't like it I better become an administrator or whatever where i don't have to learn new things and get grey hair. So my experience from science is: stay on top of things and learn and be one of the first to apply the new technology, because then you are the one to influence others.

So recently i was using new Flash technology to facilitate my own work:

http://flash8.flashscript.biz/ncbi_r.../ncbi_rss.html

and believe it or not, it already helped. I love progress and I am looking forward to AS3 to solve some of my current Flash-XML problems.

[shipstern]

I agree with freeFromIt.

I am not against development and if you can give me a professional product with solid improvements great! My programming foundation is real-time 3D so I am always waiting for better products.

BUT

Macromedia packages and sends out second rate products full of bugs ALL THE TIME. It is almost company policy to release beta version where the final 10% of debugging is at the expense of their client base. The beta version is then released after they have saved themselves a bucket.

Share Market value is the only value left ... and it's food is "quality".

Perhaps now that Macromedia is owned by Adobe they may have to work under a new quality control "ethic" ... I hope its NOT lower!!!!

shipstern

[McUsher]

[...]Macromedia packages and sends out second rate products full of bugs ALL THE TIME. It is almost company policy to release beta version where the final 10% of debugging is at the expense of their client base. The beta version is then released after they have saved themselves a bucket.[...]

I bought the release and hardly found any bug.
One of the 2 bugs (plus the mem leak in player) known to me
will only apply to less than one promille of the flash users...
And i read a lot in flash-forums.

I believe i bought quality.
Did you download the beta, and submitted bug reports? Neither did i and i don't
see a reason, why i should complain about ppl betatesting/researching that are
not payed by MM. The final product is the thing i am interested in.

[shipstern]

McUsher we must be seeing this from different angles.

I looking at it from the standpoint of IT professionals, producing a quality piece of software. From this position I would not consider a memory leak as a
small issue. Imagine passing your final year University IT development with a piece of software architecture which had a memory leak.

It's just not proffesional.
It was like AS1 their OOP methodology was wrong to the point of being almost broken. With junk properties being created in the prototype, execution speed was compromised through needless execution of constructor code. Correct method inheritance being possible only through hacks and work-arounds.

Don't get me wrong I love Flash and hey it gets the job done. But unless they up their ball game I will always see Macromedia as a second rate entity willing to sacrifice quality for a quick cash infusion.

But I guess this is now of no consequence anyway because Macromedia is no longer in control and we will have to wait and see what pressure Adobe assert on the product.

shipstern

[tonypa]

Every program has bugs. None of them in Flash8 are serious enough to make it unusable. I have been using it from the day it was released and I have not had troubles with it so far. Then again, I only upgrade to every 3rd release

[webdreamer]

I also agree with freeFromIt!

i am all for changes and better coding standards but to have to be doing updateds every year and then to every 6 months. it's hard for peeps that have been self taught to keep upto speed with the changes in coding.

Why is ther a need to change the prog every year?
mx pro was/is fine and shouldnt have been due for an update for at least another year or two.
How many sites do u see everyday using AS2-player7-8
By the time us developers get up to speed with the changes it's time to change again and were are not giving the chance to expolit previuos changes. i am only in the past 3 months getting to grips with AS2 and using AS2 players 7-8 based components and coding standards. And now there is another change on the horizan with AS3 and player 8.5

Surely there is got to be a slow down soon.

Tell you what i would like to know!
Where to the producers of flash see it going? Where is the end line?

[shipstern]

webdreamer I think you hit the target. There seems to be no "game plan". Flash forums before a new version release are full of apprehension, its something I have not encountered with any other major software. People are genuinely concerened. And with good reason.
Versions 6 to 9 with AS1, AS2, AS3 this is a new programing set for almost each version.

I often wonder what is going to happen with the thousands of AS1 and AS2
sites.
But just in case you thought you may be catching up ... here something direct from Macromedia....

October 10, 2005
We just had the most successful launch of Flash in history and we're already working on the next version. It's too early to give away much information on the release but I do have a few things to tell you.
First, the most important part - the codename.
The codename for the version 9.0 release of the Flash authoring tool is: "BLAZE".

Well thanks Mike ... "codename" ..B-L-A-Z-E .... WOW it must be way cool.
I wonder what it can do??
Mike does go on to tell us that the Player will support Blaze before the authoring tool supports AS3 ... but don't worry there will be a "special" alpha release of the authoring tool so that we can all "migrate" our projects to AS3.
And asks us to post the features we would like Blaze to have. Uhhh ...... I thought the alpha was being shipped in spring 2006 ... if you count till after the new year as dead time .... it leaves only about 12 weeks ... and they are still coding in new features???

http://weblogs.macromedia.com/md/arc...ame_for_th.cfm

Where is it all heading?? Does anyone care??

shipstern

[cancerinform]

I don't think we have to now change all AS1 and AS2 scripts to AS3. There will be support for those in many many years to come as there is still support for older Flash versions when a movie is saved. Otherwise it will be a disaster.
New projects can be started with AS3. MM is testing the response of users to AS3 by the download version of Flex2 and of course how to improve that. I personally do not see that as MM wants to save a buck on the users back but rather to let the user have an opportunity to get aquainted with AS3. MM has been quite successful in pushing Flash to integrate or as an alternative for pure HTML sites because of its look and its functionality. That is why they are quickly pushing further and further. They are not expecting that everybody jumps on everything new also after experiencing that the MX2004 release was not as successful as the MX release. However, some will pick up the pace and develop using AS3 and if it turns out that you can create stunning movies with much more improved functionality that will be one of the driving force for others to follow, the "How did they do that?" question.
If you check the job market for flash developers what you will find is that in several job description, which deal with functionality (not design!) the employer asks for a strong knowledge of AS2. In some descriptions I found already they are looking for developers who know Flash 8. This is the second driving force. Employers will demand knowledge of the new technologies as it is everywhere else as well, Flash not excluded.
It is up to everybody's own decision to know whether to know the newest technology is necessary or not and also it depends on all the skills and the focus you have. One can still survive for some time with Flash MX. We had lengthy discussions regarding the player update. Definitely a good designer cannot be replaced by AS3 and a good designer must not necessarily know AS3 or be an expert in Actionscript, because he/she can work together with somebody who is.
Joachim

[shipstern]

cancerinform

Do you know what level of compatability there is between AS1, AS2, AS3 ???
Given that Flash content is often developed as small modules, imported or shared ... I am wondering how all these versions will or will not plug together? Will all those "reusable" pieces of code we all developed be not so reusable afterall and will the Flash developer have to rewrite and debug their entire "toolkit".

I realise that the Player will somehow support AS 1,2,3.
But this seems of little help if there is no underlying compatability.
Will Flash developers have to keep reinventing the wheel over and over again each time Adobe/Macromedia gets it into there head to change the language structure ?

I do not know how the Flash Player supports all the versions of AS ... so maybe my concerns are for nothing.

Ie. Would I say be able to share a complex AS2 driven component in Blaze?? Or are there deeply embeded compatability issues which will necesitate AS1, AS2 and AS3 versions. Will there need to be "segregation" between version components/content?

shipstern

[cancerinform]

I would not mix AS2 and AS3 but strictly separate the projects. That is something to think about for MM.

[georgecalgary]

I realise that the Player will somehow support AS 1,2,3.

Not Player to support languages, player only have to support binary SWFs under specifications. Languages are only work with authoring software, that's why there's AS 1,2,3, Swishmax could make its own language, and Nicolas could work on his haXe.

Ie. Would I say be able to share a complex AS2 driven component in Blaze??

Don't try to do that. Think about it, as your component compiled under authoring software other than Blaze, you will get into trouble.

[shipstern]

I realize that AS is compiled to bytecode for the Flash Player and that the player supports .swf files/bytecode from all compilers ... but is there compatability between the .swf files produced from these different compilers.

ie lets say I have ...
A map.fla using AS1 and it is compiled to bytecode using the MX compiler.
A main.fla using AS3 and it is compiled to bytecode using the Blaze compiler.
Obviously it would be a catastrophic disaster if the Player did not have enough backwards compatability to handle both .swf files.

Am I wrong in thinking though that the resulting 2 .swf files would not be compatible when played in the Flash Player? ie if I tried to load the map.swf into main.swf using loadMovie() or using runtime sharing ? Could I do this ?

shipstern