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Senior Member
Afghanistan was a direct response to 9/11, I agree, but there are many benefits that come with it.
Had to quote myself there as you simply ignored that part...
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associate
Originally Posted by flipsideguy
Had to quote myself there as you simply ignored that part...
Yea well can you delete the other part too? It makes 0 sense. So do you think we would have invaded Afghanistan if it wasn't for Osama?
BTW, people seem to forget about ALL of the other attacks on the US in the wake of 911... it's not all about 911.
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Senior Member
I couldn't agree less with you all when it comes to the threats towards the Danish and Norwegians, over some drawings. That sort of reaction comes from the radicals.
I myself am not Muslim, but I can see how they would be offended. Said drawings/cartoons can only offend muslims - knowing this, why do it? Freedom of speech or religious persecution. It's your choice how you interpret it. I've stated my opinion.
/Flip
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Senior Member
Admedia, my point with regards to the Afghanistan war is that the war was to go after Al Qaida - Yes! But there are other benefits that came with it. Simple yes? Or do you need me to draw you a picture?
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Retired SCORM Guru
South Park did an episode where a statute of the Virgin Mary squirted blood out of her ass onto the Pope's face.
I know South Park is raw, but that was really bad and was clearly desecration.
Bad taste? Sure. Was it persecution?
"What really bugs me is that my mom had the audacity to call Flash Kit a bunch of 'inept jack-asses'." - sk8Krog
...and now I have tape all over my face.
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Senior Member
Only if it was a sin to depict Virgin Mary like that. Knowing that a religion prohibits the depiction of their god, prophet, saints etc, yet publishing 12 drawing of him/her/it sporting grenades, knives and other terrorist related weapons... yuh, that's a form of persecution. It is the ugliset form of generalization targeting people of a specific faith in readily available media.
Though if South Park did the same thing I don't think people would have the same strong reactions - including myself
/Flip
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Retired SCORM Guru
Whatever. Freedom of speech isn't as pleasant as it sounds, you have to take the good with the bad. Hence the KKK is still allowed to have rallies in the U.S.
I'll take that over being told what I can/can't say any day though.
I don't think there's a PR war against Islam. I think when you hear about 5 guys out of a billion pulling guns on journalists over a cartoon, they do their people a grave disservice all on their own.
No one's saying they have to like it or can't complain about it. But if you call in bomb threats, don't be surprised when people think you're crazy.
"What really bugs me is that my mom had the audacity to call Flash Kit a bunch of 'inept jack-asses'." - sk8Krog
...and now I have tape all over my face.
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New Wave
Originally Posted by flipsideguy
Now you go and generalize and say that everyone of those muslims who got mad at the cartoons are "gunmen".
/Flip
Did I say everyone of those muslims that got mad are "gunmen"?
No, I didn't. You might want to try reading the article. It did in fact say that gunmen threatened to do all the things mentioned above.
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Senior Member
Pulling guns over a cartoon is as radical as the defamation of Islam in daily newpapers. What you're describing is a Chicken / Egg scenario. Hate fuels hate feeds hate and eventually kills people. Just have to figure out where the hate originates in the first place. Easier said then done.
/Flip
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Retired SCORM Guru
I'm sorry. I can't agree that an editorial cartoon (that doesn't explicitly tell people to go out and hurt someone), is as bad as using violence.
"What really bugs me is that my mom had the audacity to call Flash Kit a bunch of 'inept jack-asses'." - sk8Krog
...and now I have tape all over my face.
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New Wave
Originally Posted by flipsideguy
Pulling guns over a cartoon is as radical as the defamation of Islam in daily newpapers.
That's interesting you see them "as radical as", in other words, on the same level? I would think resorting to violence over a cartoon is worse than the cartoon itself.
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Senior Member
Right, one is an overly aggressive reponsone (by a few) to an insult, the other is swaying public opinion by the masses towards hostility against people of a certain faith. As if Denmark and Norway didn't already have a large racist population as is.
I'm spent.
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Retired SCORM Guru
So, an editorial cartoon is now "swaying public opinion of the masses."
From this we can deduce:
1.) Editorial cartoons do not reflect pubilc sentiment, they create it.
2.) People are incredibly stupid, do not form their own opinions, and are easily influenced.
Sorry, not buying that.
"What really bugs me is that my mom had the audacity to call Flash Kit a bunch of 'inept jack-asses'." - sk8Krog
...and now I have tape all over my face.
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Senior Member
So these types of pictures will only sway the opinion of the stupid?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/derek/94399560/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/derek/94399524/
In case people haven't seen them...
/Flip
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Retired SCORM Guru
Originally Posted by flipsideguy
So these types of pictures will only sway the opinion of the stupid?
Yes. Those who aren't know that an editorial cartoon is just opinion and can make up their own minds.
That's one of the fundamental princples behind free speech, that people can make up their own minds and don't need to be protected from ideas.
"What really bugs me is that my mom had the audacity to call Flash Kit a bunch of 'inept jack-asses'." - sk8Krog
...and now I have tape all over my face.
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associate
I tell you what sways public opinion.
It aint the comics... it's the freakout in the fundamentalist Islamic world about them.
Plain and simple. Fundamentalist / Radical (I prefere fascist) Muslims do not believe in freedom of speech. They do not believe in freedom of religion, and they don't believe in freedom for women. They also believe violence as the answer.
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tunnel vision
talk about a wacked out bunch... they flare up all over the world over a few cartoons. But not a peep from them when a "Scientific Conference” on the Holocaust is hosted in Iran.
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associate
Originally Posted by Adixx
"Scientific Conference” on the Holocaust is hosted in Iran.
Did they ever reach a concensus on whether the Holocaust actually occurred or not?
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Senior Member
Just like the 'smart' citizens of a certain country who believed that Iraq had WMD or was linked to Al Qaida. Never underestimate the power of media. Say/show it a hundred times and even the smartest will be swayed.
I am personally not a religious person. But I respect the beliefs of others. As such, when someone disrespects people's faith with loaded cartoons I condemn it.
To all the people calling muslims a 'whacked out bunch' or 'fascists' for being offended by something that goes against their religion. If you are so loving and caring, rid yourself of your own hatred first, then point the finger.
/Fip
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associate
Originally Posted by flipsideguy
Just like the 'smart' citizens of a certain country who believed that Iraq had WMD or was linked to Al Qaida.
no, I am sorry... it's not the same
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