G vs. E vs. D ((( Battle for Arena mod supremacy )))

[gerbick]

what terms did i use?

"Boring". That's quite vague. I stated it three times.

Here in the arena section i always give my comment as true to how i feel.

And that's just fine. That's what we basically expect from people in the Arena. But at least say something that's more in-depth than one/two words critiques. Looks like bad form to me.

In my original reply i stopped short of further comment after "boring" simply because u 'd likely to come back with something like "oh, i already told u that i used pentium 3 and it took me forever"...and such.

And that's called an assumption. Just the like the rest of your statements above actually.

When I said "names" that means more than one. It doesn't mean just you. There's a trend in the Arena where people drop empty comments and feel like they've given a critique.

For some reason you took everything I said personal. In each portion of my statement(s) above, I'm addressing the whole Arena... not just Jujumon. Allow me to clarify...

The Arena was started so we as peers could help others improve, share technique, be a place where we could do things for ourselves that we couldn't do for any client, have fun, critique each other in non-harsh/non-vague ways, encourage each other... so on. The fact that I've started with your comment about my piece... you took it personal for some reason.

Keep around, I'll be addressing it more often since my presence in the Arena will be coming back. And by "it" I mean that there's a bad trend of just saying simple critiques of "that sucks", "you could do better", "I've seen better", or even sometimes worse. I'll address them as they happen now.

And simply put, that kind of critique honestly drives people away, makes people cranky, makes people send me angry as hell PM's that sometimes makes me wonder why they took it so damn personal. Which is what I'd have to ask you... look again at my verbiage dude. Only part that was pointed towards you was "boring"... and seeking why the heck would you say that and not back it up. You can say whatever you feel, but if you feel like that's a critique, then stand by that. I'll even fight for your right to continue to say stuff like that.

But that means I can still counter with saying "that's not constructive" and still mean it. Freedom of expression is allowed here, but man say something constructive. That's giving you the benefit of a doubt that you have something constructive to say, not challenging you to do something you can not do.

Heck, I even stopped critiquing in the Arena because it was a major feeling by a lot of people that I was coming off "Holier than thou" and stating stuff to them as if I were saying "I'm better than you"... which was never my intent. So I just stopped participating in the Arena, got Dri as a moderator, and left it in EVP's and Dri's hands... walked. All because people assumed totally wrong what I was saying. You're assuming quite wrong by what I said.

I did not mean for you to take it so personal. But I personally have one idea of what the Arena should be... peers helping peers. Start using vague words, and that's not help in the least bit. It's just right above abusive in my opinion. And that's what leads to anger... et al.

I hope that you understand this even more clear than you did the first time. Don't take it personal. I'm talking to all of the people in the Arena pertaining empty critiques.

Not just you.

[Natsia]

I'll be the first to admit that I've dropped comments like that...

[noiselab]

All your base base base base are belong to us us us. Good day Gentlemen, make your time !

[ondraedan]

...verbiage...

word of the day

[DaVulf]

I give critiques via IM mostly now to avoid sounding heavy-handed with my tips on typography and color. But that's all about to stop... and whenever I see a lacking critique, don't be surprised if you're (anybody) is called out for doing it.

Are you saying that instead of IM you will be contributing more to the Arena in the coming months? Not to say that you have not been a contributer here recently, but it would be nice to get your view on a lot of the images that have been coming out, mine especially. I've always felt that good and complete criticisms go a long way to helping the creator to make better manips in the future. For instance, Rush really helped me out after MM3 to better understand perspective and lighting. My images since then (I feel) have gotten quite a bit better. I have had some critiques that my work is sloppy (not singling you out man) but again, that is something that I need to work on.

Overall, I think that there are some people who consistently give good critiques or offer help on images, while others seem to want only to increase their post-count.

<that is all>

[Saint Benedetta]

I'm loving your avetar St. I'd love to see a bigger version if there is one.

Thanks

Unfortunately, that's pretty much the size that I have saved it in

[RUSHVision]

Rush really helped me out after MM3 to better understand perspective and lighting. My images since then (I feel) have gotten quite a bit better.

And I might have created something of a monster in the process, lol. I jest, but only in part. Like a great many other things, this 'situation' is largely a matter of perception. That fact is that you have been giving the impression lately that you know better how to manipulate an image than some others who have been doing this longer than you have and whose skills are more refined than are yours. Now I want you to take note...there is a reason why I emphasized the part that I did...that I only said you were giving this impression, which is a very different thing than directed intent.

The reality of it though, is that you are in the process of expanding your own learning, DaVulf. Every time you deconstruct an image in your mind then take the time to organize your thoughts into coherent form you are exercising your creative muscles and expanding your awareness of the art of digital imagery. This is an incredibly powerful way to accelerate your learning and I am quite happy to see you doing it.

Something else you need to be aware of though, is that you are still very much in the process of learning. You have gotten much better than when you first started and have the potential to get better still. Right now though, two areas that still need improvement are your understanding of and ability to manipulate lighting/light values and your layer masking which relates directly to the quality of your composite layer blending. This will come in time and you are on the fast track to getting there simply because of your desire, your commitment and your love of doing it. Keep it up!

I am going to suggest that you think a little more carefully about the wording of your posts though, so that feelings aren't hurt and mistaken impressions aren't made.

And no, I'm not saying that I know it all, either. All of us are in the process of continually honing our skills, that's part of what makes this place so great. The opportunity to get feedback from your fellow artists is a wonderful thing and as such it should be fostered with care and tempered with the kind of courtesy that each of us would like to receive. And with this I am speaking to all who frequent the Arena and Flash Kit in general.

What Makes A Good Critique?

In a nutshell, I would say varying portions of insight, praise and humility. Add some truth mixed with a bit of respect, splash in a dash of courtesy, then just for good measure throw in some creativity. The truth is, it's not always easy to give a good critique. Depending on the number of points that you want to address it can be a daunting task to give each and every image you comment on a thorough critique.

Each and every time you do comment though, it's a good idea to keep in mind The Golden Rule. For those not familiar, it literally states "Do unto others as you would have done to you.". It basically means that you should treat others as you, yourself would like to be treated. That can't be a bad thing, can it? Before hitting that 'submit' button take a moment and read what you are about to post. Swap places in your head with the person you are about to address. How would you feel if these words were spoken to you? Would you feel enriched, empowered, more creative, or better informed? Or instead would you feel belittled, confused, bitter, hurt, or even angry?

Believe me, I understand that it's difficult to 'put that much work' into what seems like such a simple thing. It's just freakin' post on a forum, right? Yes, but it is also much more. These words are the only means we have (other than our images...aren't artists the lucky ones?) with which to communicate with one another. There is no physical touch or presence, no sense of who each other is beyond that which we glean by way of these words. The words themselves are cold and lifeless, but not so with those who read them. Each of us has a heart and mind, carrying with us the capacity for great joy and great pain. Honestly...in those quiet moments right before you fall asleep at night, when the barriers have fallen and you cannot escape the person that you choose to be...which would like to be responsible for giving to others...joy or pain?

Is this sounding like a bunch of feely-good crap by now? Probably. But it's also the truth, and you know it. How do you feel when you get a good crit or a positive comment on the image that you worked so hard to create? You're proud of what you made and it feels good to hear others say you have done well. And you feel like crap on a stick when they say it sucks, don't you? Yes, you do. Well, remember that the next time you feel like putting down someone else's work. Remember also how you felt when someone took the time to give you thoughtful and constructive criticism that actually had the potential to improve your work. Be the person to others that you would like posting in your thread.

So what's the moral of the story? Am I saying that you should write up four paragraphs of insightful and creative comments every time you want to post an opinion? No. Sure, go ahead a take a little more time to type out your thoughts if you have them. Constructive criticism is a great learning tool. But no matter how long or short the post, consider the thoughts and feelings of those who will be reading your words.

[JWin]

*sniff* that was beautiful. Seriously though, if there was one person here I would actually like to meet and talk to it would be Rush. You're such a cool dude regardless of the artistic prowess you weild, and I only say this cause I know it wont go to your head.

Thanks for the good read

[DaVulf]

Nice post Rush. I do agree with the majority of your points, but sometimes I feel that even veiled criticisms are criticisms nonetheless. I accept criticisms pretty well, but I can understand that with less eloquence, you said to me: "you have come far since you started, but you still aren't very good at lighting and other things, yet you think you're better than people who have been here for a while. You have a long way to go, and you're giving too harsh criticisms right now."

I may be wrong, but that is what I understood. As far as the rest of the comments, I always try to keep those in mind when I'm writing a comment or criticism of a volley.

Now, if my assumptions are correct and you do not think I am better than others here in the arena (which is really irrelevant), then I think there are others on the same boat. It has to be either that, or we rate quality differently. I have seen people in here for years that I feel are not near as good as some who have come recently. Others progress slowly, and still others progress quickly.

I think this all just depends on our own perceptions and the speed at which we all learn, as well as the time and passion we devote to this.

[lefteyewilly]

honestly, that should be added to the arena rules sticky. i'm completely serious.

And i think(hope) on that point, which rush made, this will end the discussion in a thread that should be booming with eye pleasing goodness.

[gerbick]

Rush is the mod I aspire to be.

Well said. If anything, he said everything I was thinking, but didn't say exactly as he had so eloquently stated.

[RUSHVision]

A sincere thanks for the kind comments, guys.

I feel compelled to respond, DaVulf, but in the interest of agreeing with Lefty that this thread would be better filled with eye-pleasing goodness, I will do that via PM. I'm gonna eat some dinner first, though.

[Natsia]

NEAH!
*Read nod nod nod, Read shake head sadly, read nod nod*
Cant add anything right now because my brain is pudding this morning, but well said Rush. Well said.
Agree with lefteye that post should be added to the sticky.

[Jujumon]

i agreed with many others here and in the interest of this thread i will drop any discussion regarding my issue here.

i also compelled to respond to Gerbick, but since he has been getting some angry PMs from others i will let him decide if he allow me to PM him, or just let this die down (either way, i am more than happy)

[RUSHVision]

Juju, if you've got a personal beef with gerbick then type it out and send it off. Just remember to keep it civil and focused on what you consider to be the problem. The choice to read it will be his. If you just want to vent about what's going on in the Arena in general then why don't we give gerbs a break and just send it to me or one of the other mods. Speaking for myself, I can say that I will do everything I can to see that your needs are addressed. Either way, if you've got something to say, then by all means stick it into a PM.

[Dricciotti]

ive got something cooking up for this. hopefully will be able to polish it off tommorow

[Dricciotti]

Many thanks to Gerbick for helping me with the text! I'll make a beer donation and click some ads on donations.gerbick.com for you!

[RUSHVision]

YEAH! Nice one, Dri!

[noiselab]

Awesome D ! Looks good to me, the only thing I'd probably change is make the flower a little darker, maybe burn it around the edges, seems a little light compared to everything else, but maybe it's just my comp. Nice image though !

[DaVulf]

Nice volley Dri. Only thing I can really see that stands out is that the reflection of the statue is opposite of all of the other reflections in your image.