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Thread: DISC: 2Advanced.com - 2A Version 5 Attractor

  1. #201
    Senior Member zakp0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gparis
    i never thought this was a good argument. as opposed to your other points.

    gparis
    Wow, to what do we owe the appearance of the mighty gparis in our humble little forum?

  2. #202
    Perverse Futurist villain2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gparis
    i never thought this was a good argument. as opposed to your other points.

    gparis
    I can see why now after looking at your linked site (mine is down right now btw, unfortunately) ... your site is in the same design realm as 2A's older stuff.

  3. #203
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    I can see why now after looking at your linked site (mine is down right now btw, unfortunately) ... your site is in the same design realm as 2A's older stuff.
    yes, at that moment (around 4 years ago) i was
    My comment was more about the fact that your first points were valid (tertiary - why not - changes from back/next/home, etc. totally agree on that).
    But i disliked the little attack on Moot (wanting to see his own work - semi-assuming it's bad... etc.) I've seen people do that in this forum when they get shocked or angry, and i don't think it elevates the debate.

    gparis

  4. #204
    Perverse Futurist villain2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gparis
    yes, at that moment (around 4 years ago) i was
    My comment was more about the fact that your first points were valid (tertiary - why not - changes from back/next/home, etc. totally agree on that).
    But i disliked the little attack on Moot (wanting to see his own work - semi-assuming it's bad... etc.) I've seen people do that in this forum when they get shocked or angry, and i don't think it elevates the debate.

    gparis
    Quite the contrary. I want to see someone back up what they say with an example. Doesn't even have to be their own work, just a site they think does something better than the one they're bashing. Or give some ideas ... something ...

    Critique comes with examples or suggestions on how something is done better - not just ripping apart everything someone did because you can. Slamming something and yet having no ideas, examples, suggestions or work of your own that says "this is how it could be done better" ... is just b!tching.

    It's part of my problem with the culture of debate these days: certain people can say whatever they want about someone/something else ... unfounded or not (especially when who they're slamming is a 'bigger entity') ... but if someone else comes along and asks "well, what would you do to make it better?", someone will tell you that's not fair to ask that.

    I seek credibility when someone is so ardently attacking something. Tell me what is better. Show me what is better. Could YOU do it better ... because if they couldn't when given the chance, I'm not sure how valid their argument can be ... again, it's just whining with no credibility.
    Last edited by villain2; 01-10-2007 at 10:17 AM.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by villain2
    Quite the contrary. I want to see someone back up what they say with an example. Doesn't even have to be their own work, just a site they think does something better than the one they're bashing. Or give some ideas ... something ...
    ....
    I seek credibility when someone is so ardently attacking something. Tell me what is better. Show me what is better. Could YOU do it better ... because if they couldn't when given the chance, I'm not sure how valid their argument can be ... again, it's just whining with no credibility.
    Wow, a little self-important there? Exactly who are you again? Are you saying that we all have to give credentials to villin before we dare post a critique, or just me?

    And please, only person here whining is you. " ...Tell me what is better ""...Show me what is better." You're not even discussing the design decisions. You're just loitering around whining about the posters.

  6. #206
    Perverse Futurist villain2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moot
    Wow, a little self-important there? Exactly who are you again? Are you saying that we all have to give credentials to villin before we dare post a critique, or just me?

    And please, only person here whining is you. " ...Tell me what is better ""...Show me what is better." You're not even discussing the design decisions. You're just loitering around whining about the posters.
    And here we have the textbook response to being challenged: call the other person arrogant because how DARE they actually ask for you to back up what you say. It's amazing to me how people who trash something get all indignint when someone says "can you back that up?". Well, let me give you an example of backing up what you say:

    First of, spell the tag right, it's villain, not villin.

    Who am I? I'm someone who doesn't go around trashing other work if I either don't know how to do it better or haven't done it better myself. I am a web designer who has respect for the accomplishments of 2A, and since they've done more than I have (so far) with the technology, and have proven to be tops in the field, I'm not going to totally trash what they do WITHOUT saying why it's a bad idea and they should have done it this way or that way.

    What I'm saying is that if you're going to trash (note: what you wrote was not a critique) someone else's work, then it carries more weight if you can back it up with "they should have done x, y and z" or "this is what I did and I think it works better".

    And yes, I am complaining about trashing work, because it's not a critique, it's whining ... and often comes from a place that's not so honest (ie. biased against the subject). I find it hard to believe that you HONESTLY found ZERO positives to write about the site.

    But perhaps this is because the word "critique" has been bastardized ... it's no longer a neutral word, it's now seen as negative. There is a difference between a "critique" and "bashing".

    A "critique" will have reasons why aspects of the work are bad, and why aspects are good ... one may outweight the other depending on the critique but there is a REASON for it.

    A "bashing" is just a listing of negatives slung with no follow up on why it's bad or how to improve it ... it's just all bad.

    But, perhaps in these days, it'd be better to EVALUATE than CRITIQUE since critique implies a negative.
    http://webster.com/dictionary/criticizing

    *
    Usage Note: Critique has been used as a verb meaning "to review or discuss critically" since the 18th century, but lately this usage has gained much wider currency, in part because the verb criticize, once neutral between praise and censure, is now mainly used in a negative sense. But this use of critique is still regarded by many as pretentious jargon, although resistance appears to be weakening. In our 1997 ballot, 41 percent of the Usage Panel rejected the sentence As mock inquisitors grill him, top aides take notes and critique the answers with the President afterward. Ten years earlier, 69 percent disapproved of this same sentence. Resistance is still high when a person is critiqued: 60 percent of the Usage Panel rejects its use in the sentence Students are taught how to do a business plan and then are critiqued on it. Thus, it may be preferable to avoid this word. There is no exact synonym, but in most contexts one can usually substitute go over, review, or analyze.·Note, however, that critique is widely accepted as a noun in a neutral context; 86 percent of the Panel approved of its use in the sentence The committee gave the report a thorough critique and found it both informed and intelligent.

    Now guess which - critique or trashing - is more valid to the fair minded?
    Last edited by villain2; 01-11-2007 at 10:54 AM.

  7. #207
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    Woah, little wound up there?

    Take a deep breath, try to clear your head, and think about it....This is cool sites forum. I posted what I thought about a "cool site."

    You come to the cool sites forum and post your thoughts on another member. Can't you don't see how lame that is? Are you that desperate for attention? Do you need a hug?

    And thanks soooo much for the high-school semantics rant. Quoting from a dictionary? looool ...did that work in chess club or something?

    It's time for you to move to a social forum where you can get the weird attention you so desperately desire. We'd like to talk about 2A here.

  8. #208
    Senior Member MagnusVS's Avatar
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    Calm down both of you! If you should reply to villain2, you should answer his points of view instead of attacking him as a person.

  9. #209
    Perverse Futurist villain2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnusVS
    Calm down both of you! If you should reply to villain2, you should answer his points of view instead of attacking him as a person.
    Exactly, but that's what I expected. Certain people these days can't debate point-to-point with someone, so they reduce the discourse to:
    trivializing research and facts
    making sarcastic jokes
    attacking someone on claims of ego that aren't there

    Perhaps some people should try reading source materials like a dictionary from time to time so they know what they're talking about. The rationale on the other side though is that we don't have to know what we're talking about, just talk, and it's valid.

    Anyway, I made my point, and the fair minded can decide.

    As for "Attractor", the site isn't 100% bad. That's just ridiculous. The navigation is slick but a bit cumbersome for those who aren't familiar with the web ... then again, this site isn't for those people. If you're going to hire 2A to do a job, you have a working understanding of websites.

    The only thing I don't like about the site is the "most recent materials" panel at the bottom right does not have a mini-menu to scroll through or stop the animation as it switches from project to project.

    The matte paintings are spectacular and show off the digital art side of 2A ... again, it's a portfolio site so it's appropriate and rather well done. The panels are cleverly designed with small nuances that the more attentive viewer will notice.

    In the end, it's not as ground-breaking or trend-setting as v3 (I don't think that will happen again for a long time), but it is a step forward in back-end flash technology AND the visual style and presentation.
    Last edited by villain2; 01-12-2007 at 10:07 AM.

  10. #210
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    You're still talking about me?

    Dictionaries? lool Let's hear your specific point. I'd love to hear what word definition you're talking about and what your issue is. You're right, whatever to websites, give us a lesson from your dictionary.


    ...It's so amusing when people try to get condescending on here.

  11. #211
    Perverse Futurist villain2's Avatar
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    As previously stated:
    **************
    Certain people these days can't debate point-to-point with someone, so they reduce the discourse to:
    attacking someone on claims of ego that aren't there
    **************

    Quote Originally Posted by moot
    You're still talking about me?
    **************
    trivializing research and facts
    **************
    Quote Originally Posted by moot
    Dictionaries? lool Let's hear your specific point. I'd love to hear what word definition you're talking about and what your issue is.
    **************
    making sarcastic jokes
    **************
    Quote Originally Posted by moot
    You're right, whatever to websites, give us a lesson from your dictionary.
    **************
    attacking someone on claims of ego that aren't there
    **************
    Quote Originally Posted by moot
    ...It's so amusing when people try to get condescending on here.
    ----------------

    You make my case for me. Can we get back to Attractor now?

  12. #212
    Senior Member MagnusVS's Avatar
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    Actually, I didn't knew that people could start such heated discussions in the cool sites forum...

  13. #213
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    Wow, you're reaching sooooooo far. Ok, so maybe you've learned to post about the site and not the posters. It's good that you're coming around.

    Now, as far as your endless attacks on my qualifications to critique a website. Let's see what you're talking about. You say their site is a "step forward in back-end flash technology." Explain how.

    The While 2Advanced may be ahead of the common website, they're hardly blazing any design trails with their data structure. XML is inferior to string text data in every way. A major mistake. (my qualifications for my other posters: I've been doing data-driven flash and backends with xml and text "data cache" "data pool" "text data" pro since 2004, traditional sql/cold fusion-driven html since 1999 pro)

    It looks like their data is controlling them. The screen is full of text and links and looks like a php template. The website has a "page refresh" feel to it. How is that moving forward? You click on something, wait for a page to load, then you have to "find" the content you requested, click on something, wait for a page to load, have to find the content you requested, etc. Why did they go back to sitting around waiting around for pages to load content you didn't request?

  14. #214

  15. #215
    Senior Member zakp0's Avatar
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    I vote ban all uncool people in this thread!

  16. #216
    Retired Mod aversion's Avatar
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    Wow, this is still going?

    I don't get why people need to be 'qualified' to criticise or praise a web site. If you're one of the people the web site is aimed at why can't you have an opinion? I don't need to be a mechanical engineer to know whether I like a car or not. I don't need to be a film director to know what I thought of the Rugrats movie.

    Web sites are for users, those users are the *only* people to ask if it ultimately works or not.

  17. #217
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    Wow, this is still going?
    No kidding! Attractor was released what? Two months ago? And you two are still arguing over it? Come on!

    I vote ban all uncool people in this thread!
    Seconded!

  18. #218
    Senior Member zakp0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adobemedia
    No kidding! Attractor was released what? Two months ago? And you two are still arguing over it? Come on!
    Try some 6 months ago.

  19. #219
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    Ooops. My bad. Still, thats a hell of a long time to be arguing over it!

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