I have had it up to here.....

[bvgroote]

If those are your thoughts, I hate to see what one of your sandwiches turns out like

[pea3698]

My main point from the beginning was meant to be focused on the thread topic itself. If you don't like it walk away. There is no reason to resort to name calling and calling one ignorant just because they believe in a different religion/nonreligion than you. I'm not in any way trying to push christianity in this thread. The only time I will do this is when I am asked in person to do so. The fact that I may have strayed from my original posts purpose is my fault.
I'm going to have to bail on this conversation. It will go around and around and accomplish nothing worth accomplishing.

[Odisey]

There is no reason to resort to name calling and calling one ignorant just because they believe in a different religion/nonreligion than you. I'm not in any way trying to push christianity in this thread. The only time I will do this is when I am asked in person to do so. The fact that I may have strayed from my original posts purpose is my fault.

I do not see any name calling going on here -- personally. Relax....

You seem like you are somewhat disgruntled. Perhaps a young Theologically confused young man trying to make sense of the world he was born into. You are normal. Many -- perhaps all of us -- question God, belief systems, why, who am I, who are you, what makes sense. Science - logic; Belief - religions.

Me too. I've studied Theology for -- let's see.... 1986, cipher the knot + 3 = about 20 years now. I am finishing a book on studying the Bible by J. Phillip Hyatt -- it is very good. And the Bible is open on my table -- I am Re-reading the Song of Solomon -- it is very beautiful -- erotic -- and it is the Bible. It is open with about 10 -20 other books at any given time. I avidly read Philosophy as well. If you are interested in logic and reasoning -- start with Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle -- you will find their ideas about God in their thoughts also. Then look at John Locke, David Hume, and Immanuel Kant for ideas about how the brain works -- some good reading and very good thought.

Main thing little dude on God -- Relax....

ODC

[Frets]

indivision

The reason why you don't is that the topic is spam.
Religious spammers are treated no less then other spammers.

Frets

[pea3698]

I do not see any name calling going on here -- personally.

Get those clowns off the street

religious fanatics

grocery store 'spammers'

religious fanatic

bible-thumpers and pamphlet-wavers

religious freaks

Just to quote a couple.

I am totally relaxed. I am not trying to redefine or figure out what I believe in. If something happens to sway my belief then so be it, but I am 100% percent comfortable in my beliefs. I was just trying to take part in the discussion is all.

[Ask The Geezer]

I am always heartened by reading these threads. If you watch TV or other media, you get the idea the thumpers are taking over the world. But a little one on one shows the truth, when people are anonimously posting, they can speak their minds. It's good to be in the majority.

Hell, I can come in one of these threads and feel like a repuglican.

[jAQUAN]

is this where you all wanna be when jesus comes back? picking on religious people?

hahahaha!

Didn't any of your parents ever teach you not to get into a discussion about politics or religion? sheesh.

[Frets]

pea,

I don't see any name calling going on twards members.

The fact is fanatics exist which is why we call them that.
Jim Jones
Charlie Manson
Osama bin Laden

All religous zealots yes fanatics who believed no one else's opinion mattered but thiers.
I'm not ashamed to call them zealots nor thier followers fanatics. Nor followers of any religion whom feel it is there duty to go beyond acceptable public behaviour in an effort to increase thier following.

[pea3698]

pea,

I don't see any name calling going on twards members.
.

I was not referring to calling memebers names. Just to clarify.

jAQUAN your totally right. I try to avoid these. lol my mistake for sure.

[bvgroote]

My main point from the beginning was meant to be focused on the thread topic itself. If you don't like it walk away. There is no reason to resort to name calling and calling one ignorant just because they believe in a different religion/nonreligion than you. I'm not in any way trying to push christianity in this thread. The only time I will do this is when I am asked in person to do so. The fact that I may have strayed from my original posts purpose is my fault.
I'm going to have to bail on this conversation. It will go around and around and accomplish nothing worth accomplishing.

Oh man, dude. That's why I said what I said, because your point has nothing to do with the thread topic. Since your first post you have been defending religion itself rather than the minority that ruin it. THAT is the topic of discussion.

[indivision]

indivision

The reason why you don't is that the topic is spam.
Religious spammers are treated no less then other spammers.

Frets

Right. Talking about religion is spam but talking about not being religious is discussion.

The only difference between the context this thread is based on and one based on a religious belief system is that this one is based on intolerance. If a thread were started saying "I am so sick of athiests always using science to justify things and telling people God does not exist. I wish they would just keep their ideas to themselves. They're a bunch of idiots. Where can I go to talk about my Christian beliefs?" it would be closed, wouldnt it?

[jAQUAN]

I was not referring to calling memebers names. Just to clarify.

jAQUAN your totally right. I try to avoid these. lol my mistake for sure.

yep. way back when I first started frequenting the CL I got really involved in a few religious and political threads. They just go round and round, no one is ever convinced and no one ever 'wins'. If I had seen any potential for growth I wouldn't have sworn them off.

[Ask The Geezer]

it would be closed, wouldnt it?

No, it would go exactly like this thread but without the athiests getting upset about it.

[Frets]

Lets review on what the bone of contention was in the original post

People approaching me trying to change the way i feel, and giving me no straight answer for the basis of why i should... just shows its complete brainwashing tactics and i dont buy into it.

Where can i complain against all this stuff? Get those clowns off the street, an get my address off the people who go door to door.

Now indivision If you would like to complain about athesists, nhilists or those whom don't believe as you do, knocking on your door or blocking your passage way and interupting your daily life to sell you thier belief you are more then welcome to do so.

[indivision]

No, it would go exactly like this thread but without the athiests getting upset about it.

hah! is that a Prominence-style joke?

You know as well as I do that the moment anyone says anything pro-religion here that the anti-religious chime in with their quips. I'm not promoting either idea one way or the other. Just pointing out that science doesn't make a person immune to being annoying and if you measure the behavior scientifically, I see just as much or more "snootiness" coming from athiests.

[indivision]

Lets review on what the bone of contention was in the original post

...

Now indivision If you would like to complain about athesists, nhilists or those whom don't believe as you do, knocking on your door or blocking your passage way and interupting your daily life to sell you thier belief you are more then welcome to do so.

Yes. Lets review the post. Nice edit. But, if you read the entire thing, it completely changes the context of what you quoted.

Excuse me sir/madam,

Are you religious?

Has it ever occurred to you that your beliefs are scientifically false?

Let's consider the religious equivalent.

Excuse me sir/madam,

Are you an athiest?

Has it ever occurred to you that your beliefs are sinful?

A thread started with that would be closed. I'm not asking for that to be changed or anything. Just pointing it out.

Also, I take it that, by saying "athesists, nhilists or those whom don't believe as you do" you have assumed what my beliefs are. However, its possible to be either an athiest or a nihilist and still believe in equal tolerance. Frankly, I think that modern athiesm has become more about style than spirituality, science or any other thoughtful philosophy.

[Ask The Geezer]

hah! is that a Prominence-style joke?

For the record, I see all religion as a joke. A bad one, but I simply can not take it seriously. But I don't think that being a dyed in the wool non-believer has anything whatever to do with science. You don't need science to tell when someone is lying to you, do you? I don't.

I've spent a lot of hours, just in the last day, thinking back about all the times I've watched a preacher, and what I have come up with, is that every one of them could have just as easily been a politician trying to sell the voters a bill of goods. Or a used car salesman. Or someone trying to get you to buy into a chain letter or pyramid scheme.

I won't say I have never been fooled, or fallen for a scam. We all have at one time or another. But I can admit, that every time I did, it was because of my own greediness. I wanted a deal on something, or I thought I would get more out of it than I put into it. Buy low, sell high. It's a well known weakness in people, and the scammers know it well, and that's how they win. They know how to play on peoples greed. Best of all, for them, theres an endless supply of people willing to fall for it.

A politician can be forgiven, cause he's trying to get something for his constituants. The used car salesman can be forgiven. At least your going to get the car. Chain letters and pyramid schemes can be very lucrative for the top tier of people, so it's not a total loss. Almost every scam you can think of, gives something, no matter how small.

Except the preacher. He's the total scammer. He has nothing to give. He plays on peoples fears of the unknown almost from the time your born, till he plants you in the dirt, and gives you nothing along the way. Not once, [if the archaeologists have it right] in 35,000 years of organized religion, has there been any proof that that mumbo-jumbo has ever done anyone any good whatever.

I've been splitting a gut for a good part of my life watching these clowns work, and it brings tears to my eyes to see so many people falling for their drivel. So it's not science that makes me an athiest. Science has nothing to with anything.

[luvenny]

You're writing those long paragraphs based on your assumptions ATG:

I've spent a lot of hours, just in the last day, thinking back about all the times I've watched a preacher, and what I have come up with, is that every one of them could have just as easily been a politician trying to sell the voters a bill of goods. Or a used car salesman. Or someone trying to get you to buy into a chain letter or pyramid scheme.

And assumptions (or view) is just that, assumptions =)

Anyway as a Christian myself, sometimes it irked me too to see those preaching Christians trying to converts people. Even though that's one of the teaching I believe at this time of the world we should do it with more intelligence.

Don't know, maybe that's just me.

Bottom line is always whatever is there, it's there, regardless whether we've proved it, seen it, found it or not.

Do you people believe in coincidences?

edit: Wait a minute. I think I strayed from the main point in the thread.
Yes I'm annoyed with those kind of people too, nvm I'm a Christian. They should just do it with more intelligence, like I posted above. not just coming up to people and judging them they gonna go to hell. that's pure stupid.

Another way to look at it is this, they're just following on what's written in the 'handbook', so I'm able to spare them. c'mon people they are just doing their job. do what you want to keep them away, but let's not attack the 'job' itself =)

And mind you people, as in all the cases exist in this world, there are always 'bad eggs'. don't generalize.

[indivision]

I didnt mean to make that assertion [that ATG needs science for his beliefs]. I was just trying to keep within the context the thread starter set up. You've made your position perfectly clear in the past. Im not debating why you believe that way. Im just pointing out that all things considered, the average athiest seems to have a lot more to say about their beliefs to others than the average religious person. They dont seem to realize that they are quite often guilty of preaching their beliefs.

[Ask The Geezer]

You're writing those long paragraphs based on your assumptions ATG:

And your baseing your belief on?