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Thread: Maya is insane....

  1. #21
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    Wow i didnt know this had posts, i didnt see it on the page yesterday.

    over at CGTalk? Its a great example. The work there makes my entire drive stop dead in its tracks. Some of the things they talk about... 3 page discussions on the numerical settings for a box somewhere, on a menu somewhere, in a window somewhere in some part of the program.

    Again, i just closed my eyes an thought about it and it does not cease to amaze me, using the thing alone must take years to become fully accustomed to it. However its the complexity of the coding that is hitting the machine in the background. i dont undertstand how it was achieved.

    Im not great at actionscript, i have been fiddling with a menu system that uses FLADE for around 6 months, im no futher on than when i began. I just tinker with it now and again and put it away when the rage comes into play. Such a basic, simple thing is too overly complex for me to understand yet its as small as an atom compared to maya.

    I got to go to bed now, but thanks for posting, i had an interesting read

    Ahh its a bit of a dopey question to ask when theres already different sides, but i have modelled a mazda 787B and im kinda toying around modelling things just for a laugh (not literally).

    I have had little exposure to max as well yet in both programs, my learning materials never really seem to discuss NURBS. Why would i use NURBS over Polygons? I dont like when people answer "use both" because its just too hard for me to take everything in.

    Can you build a car or a face or a building in both NURBS and polygons and pretty much have identicat results?

    Obvliously that opens up the question of it is actually important or if its a windows/mac thing.
    Last edited by hand me a nine; 06-28-2006 at 11:32 PM. Reason: almost every word had a typo

  2. #22
    Senior Member mrkvavle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    erm... I think you need to look at that analogy once more. Nurbs are to polys much more like like beziers are to polylines and arcs.
    Its a decent anaolgoy. a nurb is constructed using pure mathematical equations much like a vector. a poly is formed by defining each face same as a raster image defines each pixel.

    You're also clueless about where 3ds max has been used...
    Really?
    3ds Max is one of the most widely-used off the shelf 3D animation programs. It has strong modeling capabilities... It is mostly used by video game developers but can also be used for pre-rendered productions such as movies, special effects and architectural presentations.
    source


    Overview

    Maya, used in most films today...
    source

    3ds max has been used in countless movies such as Last Samurai, Sin City, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, and a lot of others dude. Just because it's poly based doesn't mean that it's "old technology" nor obselete. Hell, if that's the case, you're forgetting Patch Modelling as well.
    Where did I say I say max wasnt used in film at all? And I certainly didnt say polys are old technology or obsolete. It is however common knowledge that maya is use MORE often in film than max because of its versatility and power. of the movies you mentioned only sky captain could be considered to have a lot of 3d in it. (being that only the actors werent 3d) Off the top of my head Maya has been used in the movies id consider to have a lot of 3d. a few are lord of the rings, godzilla and that one movie about new york freazing over, and spiderman 2.

    Nurbs honestly act in ways I'm personally not used to doing while modelling, but I'm a very old-school sub-divide, move vertex, sub-divide, move vertex... repeat. Nurbs... meh. It's nothing really all that new nor revolutionary. Just another way of modelling the same thing.
    I personally rarely ever used nerbs just because they freaking hard to actually work with.

    It's the render methods that can make your output shine though. Well that and an ability to model correctly. The tools are just that... a tool.
    True but depending on the tool you are using a project can go much smoother. which i why i am reiterating what ive previosly stated, 3ds max is better for some things, maya is better for others. Some could use either just as effectivly and in that case its really up to what the head of the animation/ art department prefers to use.

  3. #23
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hand me a nine
    Why would i use NURBS over Polygons? I dont like when people answer "use both" because its just too hard for me to take everything in.

    Can you build a car or a face or a building in both NURBS and polygons and pretty much have identicat results?
    Ahh, I used to ask that question a lot.. I never got a straight answer either. After getting familiar with both methods I started to understand why.

    Basically, nurb meshes act like bezier curves. You have handles and points. It makes influencing large areas easier than one polygon at a time. But at some point you may (depending on your output) want to convert to polygons and fine tune or texture.

  4. #24
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrkvavle
    Its a decent anaolgoy. a nurb is constructed using pure mathematical equations much like a vector. a poly is formed by defining each face same as a raster image defines each pixel.
    A poly is defined by points. Not rasters dude.
    A graphic shape defined by any sequence of points representing the polygon's vertices, connected by straight lines from one point to the next.
    A polygon is basically a closed shape derived from points in space that are connected via a straight line. There's nothing raster about a poly at all. Raster indicated pixels. Your screen, meanwhile pixel in the way it represents everything, to the CPU a polygon is a simple math based object that is three or more points in space that are connected via straight lines.

    Simple geometry.

    A Nurb - non-uniform rational b-spline - is based on math as well; however it has things that behave like a bezier curve (control vertices) that indicate the model/mesh's/points pull, tension, and overall a lot of other information surrounding that one point and/or line. It can be pushed upward towards a mesh, but it's a spline, which is nothing more than a line after all.

    It's also not made out of pixels.

    When you say raster, I'd seriously reconsider using that in describing polygons. Perhaps you're thinking of voxels... pixels with volume.
    Where did I say I say max wasnt used in film at all?
    You said that Maya was used more often in film - not 100% true. Lightwave actually still holds the most used, then the rest come up perhaps. Hell, even Softimage (pre-XSI/Sumatra) was heavily used. They all have video game/DirectX export functions as well.

    Honestly, the way you build isn't truly indicative of where it's going to be used. Nurbs are almost always driven down to polygons by most renderers and CPUs for real-time systems/renderers anyway. Film... only a few high dollar ones can crush and animate nurb movements and animations.

    Anyway, you're all about rolling your eyes, et al. I'm backing out... especially when all I was doing was pointing you out where you were wrong. There's nothing raster about a point based system as polygons.

    Your analogy still isn't right. Enjoy ya' day.

    [ Hello ] | [ gerbick ] | [ Ω ]

  5. #25
    Senior Member mrkvavle's Avatar
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    my point in saying its similar to raster is that you have to define every face you want rendered using polys whereas with nurbs the curves are mapped at render time using the bezier curves. like you said its defined by points whereas a nurb uses a formula to get the same kind of of effect. I think perhaps where the misunderstanding lies is that i wasnt saying polys are defined by rasters. it was a loose comparion of the need to define more in a poly and less in a nurb. Sorry my analogy doesnt mesh(get it?:-p) very well with how you would explain the difference. your explaination is perfect, my analogy was just a sloppy comparison of two completley different things.

  6. #26
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Well I've found that when teaching 3d, you have to start with very rudamentary comparisons in which case I agree with mrkvavle. Its the difference between editing on the per pixel level (or per section of detail) and influencing the object as a whole. The similarities stop there.

    I for one am a big fan of nurbs, its a great fast way to get going but most of my objects end up as polygons. To my knowledge, all nurbs objects are tesselated (converted to triangle based polygons) during the render anyways. I don't know of any nurbs renderes.

  7. #27
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    tsss

    It might be because of the way i feel right now but i really do have a problem with Gerbick here.

    No offense mate but in almost every post you seem to bellow out facts as if you know each and every detail of every software system, platform, programming langue, photography, world economics, the UN charter, the way nuclear fission works, the properties of wood, the DOB of all known scientists born in the last 100 years, the deepest in mathematical history, you were in scorching in the sands of the sahara and absorbing all its facts while learning 35 years of software just before you goto the pyramids and learn the entire history of the ancients.

    I have realised you tend to really push people into the ground to talk about your own experiences and i really dont want to be a dick, but when you make a post in every topic basically saying "THIS IS THE WAY IT IS AND ILL HAVE NO MORE ON THE SUBJECT REGARDLESS" is the rudest thing i have seen.

    Your the kind of person as a brainstorming session around a table that would sit with his nose in the air unless we followed your deep wisdom otherwise you would have no part in it at all.

    How do you know about everything? And if you are going to post to make everyones opions fact based, why dont you provide a source for the material?

    Sorry, its just i really cant cope with people who have a tiny bit power assuming that thier voice over-rides everyone elses view then just pull out of the discussion as though thats the gospel DO NOT CHALLENGE ME attitude.

  8. #28
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hand me a nine
    tsss

    It might be because of the way i feel right now...
    go with that.

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