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Thread: a lost of respect for a once great site. =(

  1. #1
    if($<0){WelcomeToMyWorld} joshchernoff's Avatar
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    a lost of respect for a once great site. =(

    donation
    do‧na‧tion 
    1. an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution.
    2. a gift, as to a fund; contribution.

    purchase
    pur‧chase 
    –verb (used with object)
    1. to acquire by the payment of money or its equivalent; buy.
    2. to acquire by effort, sacrifice, flattery, etc.
    3. to influence by a bribe.


    Ok Now that you know the difference from donationing for a contribution and purchasing a service lets just get down to the point.

    There use to be a site that is supported by erain, this site has been a great place to find help, info and lots more. But now do to it's gain in popularity from a bost in support from erain they have now locked all of it's content to be veiwed at a cost, somthing that you would have to purchase not just once but every month to be able to view their content witch up and till now was free for years. They sugar coat this by calling it a "donation". I would have posted this rant in there forum about this forced "donation", but I dont provide contributions to two faced liers. Any how I thought I would share my disappointment and saddness about the loss of a great site to the greed of profit. I just hope this forum will be a place to fill the gap.




    I also wont say who the site is I dont feel they deserve any publicity, but if you realy must know it wont be hard to figure out.
    Last edited by joshchernoff; 09-06-2006 at 02:47 AM.

  2. #2
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    I have to say that I'm quite clueless. But I'm sorry you feel that way about anything Swift3D related. I find the site(s) that are affiliated to be genuinely filled to the brim with some unique individuals that's always been around and helping push Swift3D - unique for a company to actually listen to it's userbase.

    But that's me. I'm not affiliated by no means with Erain. I'm just a "fan" from since before version 1.0 came out.

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  3. #3
    if($<0){WelcomeToMyWorld} joshchernoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    I have to say that I'm quite clueless. But I'm sorry you feel that way about anything Swift3D related. I find the site(s) that are affiliated to be genuinely filled to the brim with some unique individuals that's always been around and helping push Swift3D - unique for a company to actually listen to it's userbase.

    But that's me. I'm not affiliated by no means with Erain. I'm just a "fan" from since before version 1.0 came out.

    Thats just it. I agree with you 100% but then to have free site for years pull the plug and start charging for the same content that it's users provided, thats just wrong! I think it send the wrong idea about the level of quality of this program. As if it's just some money maker. It just feels like a slap in the face from a once helpfull place.

  4. #4
    up to my .as in code Chris_Seahorn's Avatar
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    I'm curious...was this a forum? A code repository where users submitted code examples? A popular fan site with mulifaceted content related to the app? Just wondering what the dude locked up and how much was contributed by the community. If community built over a period of time (as a free service)that is a crappy bait and switch to pull down the road.

  5. #5
    if($<0){WelcomeToMyWorld} joshchernoff's Avatar
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    it's been up for years where others uploads their swift3d content of all types it has a fourm but now only read only for non members as well a tutorial area all provided by the users and also from the owner but still why now and and why so hard up for strict members only use?

    a real low ball shot at its users.

  6. #6
    up to my .as in code Chris_Seahorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshchernoff
    it's been up for years where others uploads their swift3d content of all types it has a fourm but now only read only for non members as well a tutorial area all provided by the users and also from the owner but still why now and and why so hard up for strict members only use?

    a real low ball shot at its users.

    No doubt. Wow...I'm sorry man. I would be bummed too.

  7. #7
    Senior Member RUSHVision's Avatar
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    If it's the site I'm thinking of, then I would say that what they are doing is not at all unusual. Sure, it sucks for some that a portion of the free downloadable content is no longer available unless you register, but someone has to pay for all the bandwidth and such, and again if it's the one I'm thinking of then that site is privately funded. Remember that it's no one's obligation to provide you with this content.

    Unless I'm mistaken though, registration at that site is free. Did that change as well?
    mrush


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  8. #8
    ism BlinkOk's Avatar
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    swiftdev is thinking of doing this. not as a revenue thing but to stop people coming in, taking resources and just leaving without contributing.
    people could donwload resources as they are released but on a monthly basis all resources would be archived and people would need to purchase the archives.
    this means that regular users who are around all the time will have the opportunity to download resources as they are posted, and hopefully contribute to the site in the process.
    those users who just wanna swoop on the site and drain the resources will have a harder time.
    until recently swiftdev had thousands of users registered and only a handful actually contributed. i think people who milk sites like this are not only disrespecting the site but also those who contribute to it.
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  9. #9
    up to my .as in code Chris_Seahorn's Avatar
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    until recently swiftdev had thousands of users registered and only a handful actually contributed. i think people who milk sites like this are not only disrespecting the site but also those who contribute to it.
    Reaaaaaaaly. Odd...our movie section here at Flashkit runs exactly that way...as a FREE service.

  10. #10
    ism BlinkOk's Avatar
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    swiftdev doesn't run ads either
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  11. #11
    up to my .as in code Chris_Seahorn's Avatar
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    Hey man...it's your server. I'm just not a fan of pulling any (previously wide open) vault door shut after the minions have been kind enough to fill it...

    Mainly I disagreed with this generalization for the reasons I gave above :

    Code:
    those users who just wanna swoop on the site and drain the resources will have a harder time. until recently swiftdev had thousands of users registered and only a handful actually contributed. i think people who milk sites like this are not only disrespecting the site but also those who contribute to it.

  12. #12
    ism BlinkOk's Avatar
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    a) it's not my server dude. is this your server?
    b) the plan is being formed by all the people who contributed the resources
    c) the charge concept is not for revenue purposes. just to deter the leaches
    d) this site has steadily increased it's ad content since it's inception.
    e) do you honestly think the content within this site will be free forever?
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  13. #13
    up to my .as in code Chris_Seahorn's Avatar
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    do you honestly think the content within this site will be free forever?
    Yes...as a matter of fact I do. JupiterMedia has subscription services now that co-exist with their free services. Flashkit has not changed it's format in almost ten years.
    the plan is being formed by all the people who contributed the resources
    No it's not..it's being decided by SOME.
    the charge concept is not for revenue purposes. just to deter the leaches
    If you say so.....lol
    this site has steadily increased it's ad content since it's inception.
    It's how we afford to offer free anonymous downloads, sound file downloads, hosting third party support sites who cannot host their own and more. It costs you nothing but rather costs the advertisers. Please do be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you here
    it's not my server dude. is this your server?
    Then maybe you should let the site owner defend his actions or speak on them...you are representing the situation poorly. As for this site being mine...well...Flashkit has always made me feel like I'm home

  14. #14
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Different models of support for different sites. That's all I'm seeing right now.

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  15. #15
    Swiftdev Founder 98svt's Avatar
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    Well, alot has changed since I first started visiting Flashkit. I started Swiftdev with zero help from the swift 3d community. Flashkit started adding more and more ads. This is fine for most broadband users but at that time, I was on dial up. Pages took forever to load. Nothing is perfect but I wanted to create a Swift 3D resource site without all the ads. I propositioned many Swift 3d "gurus" when the domain was first registered. I had a few replies, most people were busy with other projects (perfectly understood), 2 people offered what they could. Neil McGarry (artzfx) and Jamison Thies (liquidCreativity, the user formally known as flasher). They have been a part of the SD community from day one. Many others jumped on board and assisted with Swiftddev, BlinkOk being one of them.
    I didn't have a dedicated server, used a shared server. Paid for out of pocket seeing that Swiftdev generates absolutely zero money. Swiftdev has never generated any cash waht so ever, save the few purchases of Swift 3D through Erain's affiliate program.
    Now, the fact that people have to "donate" to have full access to the site is true. Swiftdev had almost 11,000 members at one time. Around 25 - 40 actively participated. Participated by answering posts, suggesting work arounds for the limited features Swift 3D had, contributed downloads to the download area as well as renderings to the gallery. Who maintains Swiftdev you might wonder? Me. By myself. There are a few others that are mods and full access to the server as well as all other admin areas. Do I get paid? No, I don't make a dime. Is this my full time job? No, but sometimes it seems like it. I spend at least 3 - 6 hours a day (not everyday) updating, correcting, adding, subtracting and moderating Swiftdev. How many people run Flashkit? Are they paid? I have no clue but the workforce for Flashkit is much larger then Swiftdev by far and JupiterMedia has deep pockets to keep this place running. I'm not at all stating that Flashkit is a horrible site, just that it's resources are far superior to that of many of resource sites. And that's a good thing! They can afford to make 100% of the site free since they bank from all the advertisers that spend the money. FK is huge, Swiftdev is not.
    Swiftdev again is ran from my 2 bedroom condo and Electric Rain picks up the tab for the server. SD is in no way affiliated with Erain.
    There was a time when SD shut down due to the server I was using was too unstable and had continuos outages. So, I was going to scrap the idea. Erain stepped in and offered their assistance. I appreciate that and i'm sure the sd community does as well.
    Sd now has vBulletin forums. Bought and paid for by true Swiftdev members that wanted SD to grow. I appreciate that as well.
    11,000 members pre-vBulletin, just under 600 post-vBulletin. This was done to get a realistic count of the members that visit. As with most resource sites people always register and get what they can and never come back. This is fine, it really is but I wanted SD to be a contributing community, not an all take and no give. What kind of community takes and doesn't give back? Many most likely, but that's just how it is. I was tired (as well as the many others who frequent SD) of all take an no give. If that's the case, let's just paste ads all over the place and slow the entire site down to a crawl. This wasn't what I wanted from day one and this is what isn't going to happen. Swiftdev wasn't created to become a cash cow. It's not a business. It's a hobby. There are times I wish SD made me some cash, enough to pay me a salary to run the place but I don't see that happening anytime soon since I will not let it become something that it never was intended to be.
    As far as "donations", what's a better word for it? Because that's exactly what they are. They aren't fees. I have 14 people total, 14x5=70. $70.00 is by no means a profitable margin. Be lucky to pay my cell phone bill. When this idea was first proposed I took it to the community. 90% agreed. If any "major" profits were acumulated then they would go towards some sort of prize for a contest or something. Maybe a gift certificate to Amazon or what ever, but not to my retirement fund.
    Again, I am saddened to hear your feelings, I never intended this to be the result but it is as it is.
    There use to be a site that is supported by erain
    Again, Erain pays $50.00 or so a month for a server. They do not pay for anything else. When a new version of Swift 3D is available to the public they "donate"
    donation
    do‧na‧tion 
    1. an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution.
    2. a gift, as to a fund; contribution.
    a few copies to me for contests or what ever I see fit. One Erain employee is a moderator, he does this on his own time and separate from Erain and receives no compensation from Swiftdev, Me or Erain. So to "assume" that Erain supports my site is premature. "My site" is a bad term, the swift 3d communities site. I own the name and do the work but by no means is it "my site".
    Again, I apologize.

  16. #16
    Swiftdev Founder 98svt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshchernoff
    it's been up for years where others uploads their swift3d content of all types it has a fourm but now only read only for non members as well a tutorial area all provided by the users and also from the owner but still why now and and why so hard up for strict members only use?

    a real low ball shot at its users.
    It's users are the people benefiting from the "donations" by the way, they all have a better looking site and stable forums. So as to being a "low ball shot"...

  17. #17
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    @Chris_Seahorn
    That's a mighty high horse you're perched on. Have you ever actually participated in Swiftdev or are you the type who pontificates about things you know nothing about?

    What has not been mentioned is that Swiftdev "donations" do not have to be in the form of money; it can be in the form of a model, a tutorial, a helping hand. I suppose the idea of contributing something to a community you're benefiting from is a quaint notion these days; stuff your face at the table every night then be outraged at the thought of being asked to wash a dish.

    For those who take the effort to participate, Swiftdev is a superior forum, IMHO; a genuine exchange of ideas. Mike, aka Blowndeadline, is as dedicated a person as I've ever met, and I was working professionally when Steve Jobs was soldering together Apples in his father's garage. And yes, I am an SD contributor; tutorials, models, AS code routines as well as $200 toward the recent site upgrade... not because I felt forced to, but because I wanted to give back something to a community that's given me quite a bit in knowledge and moral support. An alien concept to some, it would appear.

    @joshchernoff
    You are pathetic, my man.
    Last edited by teedOff; 09-14-2006 at 08:38 PM.

  18. #18
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Allow me to chime in and just request that this discussion remains civil.

    98svt, thanks for posting the clarification dude. Like I said earlier... looks like a different model of supporting the servers. I can't argue with that. Swiftdev has always been a resource for Erain Swift3D in my eyes. I just wish I had the time in the beginning to stick with my original commitment to it and to Erain's forums.

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  19. #19
    up to my .as in code Chris_Seahorn's Avatar
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    Like I said earlier...it's your platform and your servers. Do with them both as you see fit.

  20. #20
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    I appreciate your call for civility, gerbick. By the same token, I feel obliged to refer you to the self-serving whine that launched this particular thread.

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