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Thread: Is the US becoming a totalitarian State?

  1. #1
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Is the US becoming a totalitarian State?

    It is time to cut off the Bush administration before it is too late
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    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    At this rate, I've assaulted those bastards 20 times before I even got out of bed this morning.

    I'll keep count as my day advances.

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    Retired Mod aversion's Avatar
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    Anyone know what happened to that guy in New Orleans who told Cheney to "go **** yourself"?

    I don't think you can call this totalitaian by any stretch but there's plenty of evidence that the government will do whatever it can to shut down critical voices whenever it can get away with it. From this kind of thing to the Plame affair, the government shows no interest in opposition. I doubt Bush has ever even seen a protest, nevermind have the first idea what they have to say.

    It's certainly not a good thing but it's not even reached the levels of McCarthyism yet, although there are many many parallels, such as questioning critics patriotism, bullying opponents, encouraging xenophobia, etc.

  4. #4
    Senior Member MagnusVS's Avatar
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    Not totalitarian, but I don't think USA is as much the "country of freedom" now as they might have been earlier, compared to other countries. I saw the documentary "Outfoxed" today, about fox news. The administration have at least one news station to spread propaganda...

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    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Just came from a discussion with some (more political than I ever will be) friends and we all said the same thing. Under the guise of "protection from the terrorists" the US has done what Spain and quite a few other countries have done... via rampant paranoia, freedoms have been given to an administration that we truly don't agree with largely.

    Spain changed their vote/minds and gave their country to their "Socialist" party after their train bombings.

    The US changed it's mind and gave it's freedoms via the Patriot Act and all of this spying to the current administration after September 11th.

    And neither was a good decision. But We're still freer than a lot of countries out there... like Venezuela, Cuba, Sudan, or other many other countries.

    It still sucks though to lose even one freedom.

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    Tim (Super Moderator) Northcode's Avatar
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    What if the government decided to ignore information about a terrorist attack... Why? To scare the public into letting them propose another "patriot" act or something that gave them even more control. You know there's a guy in a corner of some government or military agency whose job is to calculate the potential losses against the benefits in a scenario like that.

  7. #7
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    fear motivates people to do stupid things. that would be easy to calculate.

    in fact, I'm actually one of the few that's tired of waiting for the next September 11th. we just need something to happen to basically show that all of those lost freedoms didn't amount to a damn bit of security. just a lot of freedom placed in the hands of people that didn't deserve it any damn way.

    and besides. I think the focus is now on the US a lot because a lot of other countries are scared the loss of freedom may just happen to them next.

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    Tim (Super Moderator) Northcode's Avatar
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    I know I'm gonna take some heat for this, but I seriously believe that US foreign policy is a major contributing factor that causes the lunatic fringe to target the US. I'm sure there are people in the world who would be quite happy to be invaded, but they're being very quiet about it

    The US has taken a unilateral approach to enforcing their views on the world and sooner or later it's going to come back around and bite them somewhere tender. After sinking trillions into the current war, creating huge budget defecits, demoralizing their own population and troops with a never-ending war, what kind of shape are they in for another one?

    Try to imagine how the US would react if China invaded the US because the US started poking around North Korea or something. Would the UN get involved? Would China ignore the UN as the US has in the past? China has the muscle and manpower to bring a real fight (unlike Iraq) so we'd all better hope they never get bored and branch out adopt US style foreign policies.

    The most commonly quoted "reason" that the world hates the US I've heard (only from people in the US) is that "they envy us, our freedom and our standard of living". That's a combination arrogance and ignorance at levels that nobody else on earth but the French have ever been capable of.

  9. #9
    Didn't do it. japangreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    in fact, I'm actually one of the few that's tired of waiting for the next September 11th. we just need something to happen to basically show that all of those lost freedoms didn't amount to a damn bit of security. just a lot of freedom placed in the hands of people that didn't deserve it any damn way.
    Katrina. We couldn't get our people out of standing water. Yet for some reason, people seem to think we're prepared for a dirty bomb.
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    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    in fact, I'm actually one of the few that's tired of waiting for the next September 11th. we just need something to happen to basically show that all of those lost freedoms didn't amount to a damn bit of security. just a lot of freedom placed in the hands of people that didn't deserve it any damn way.
    It better not happen in your backyard.
    Apart from that the reaction would be to take away more rights, because it was not enough. The people who would be blamed would be the civil right groups, who prevented the government from more control.
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  11. #11
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aversion
    Anyone know what happened to that guy in New Orleans who told Cheney to "go **** yourself"?
    he got in a spike lee movie.

    In the u.s. assualt's legal definition is a threat in any manner, Doesn't need to be spoken, just a precieved threat. This could very well be a case of an over anxious secret security guy vs the admin itself wanting to shut this guy up.

    All in all I haven't seen any change in my personal liberties. The same laws used to fight the war on drugs are now being used to fight the war on crazy ass muslims*. Can anybody list a freedom they have lost?


    That is suppose dto read only those mulsims that are crazy assed, not that all muslims are crazy assed.
    Last edited by TallGuyLittleCar; 10-16-2006 at 10:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
    The same laws used to fight the war on drugs are now being used to fight the war on crazy ass muslims*.

    That is suppose dto read only those mulsims that are crazy assed, not that all muslims are crazy assed.
    Crazy assed? Is that a guy with really bad taste in underwear?
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  13. #13
    Didn't do it. japangreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
    All in all I haven't seen any change in my personal liberties. The same laws used to fight the war on drugs are now being used to fight the war on crazy ass muslims*. Can anybody list a freedom they have lost?
    Is haebus corpus a freedom or a right? I always get confused on that one...

    Right to unlawful search or seisure? The freedom to communicate without government monitoring without probable cause?

    ... I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting here, but really I think that should be enough...
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  14. #14
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
    Crazy assed? Is that a guy with really bad taste in underwear?
    I don't know, how does a guy's underwear usually taste?
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  15. #15
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by japangreg
    Is haebus corpus a freedom or a right? I always get confused on that one...
    An incident in which an american has lost that freedom in a manner different than they would have previously in the war on drugs.

    Right to unlawful search or seisure?
    An incident in which an american has lost that freedom in a manner different than they would have previously in the war on drugs.

    The freedom to communicate without government monitoring without probable cause?
    An incident in which an american has lost that freedom in a manner different than they would have previously in the war on drugs.


    I'm not saying the bill or fights is federal toilet paper, I'm just saying this is nothing new.
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  16. #16
    Didn't do it. japangreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
    An incident in which an american has lost that freedom in a manner different than they would have previously in the war on drugs.
    How many people are extraordinarily renditioned for smoking pot?

    How many drug dealers are held without consel or the right to challenge the charges against them? How many times have courts allowed evidence from torture to be used to put away a mule from columbia?

    I honestly don't know - if you happen to have a source on figures for this, please share.
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  17. #17
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by japangreg
    How many people are extraordinarily renditioned for smoking pot?
    come on jg you are smarter than that. I don't think anybody was extraordinarily reditioned for smoking pot. But if you were a major coke dealer, or smuggler, the gov could adn did anything to you. Shipping you to other countries, torture, assasination, dumping tons of cancer causing defolient on the mountains of south america.

    I honestly don't know - if you happen to have a source on figures for this, please share.
    I imagine your sources rights infractions in the war on terror are as good as mine on rights infractions in the war on drugs.. But I think we can agree the federal government is bending if not outright braking the bill of rights etc for the war on terror in the same manor we did in the war on drugs.


    are there still any little tavern burger places in d.c.?

    jg your post count is 777, mine is 666 OMG BATTLE OF GOOD AND EVIL!
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  18. #18
    Didn't do it. japangreg's Avatar
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    Oddly enough, my wedding is scheduled for 7/7/07/

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    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
    come on jg you are smarter than that. I don't think anybody was extraordinarily reditioned for smoking pot. But if you were a major coke dealer, or smuggler, the gov could adn did anything to you. Shipping you to other countries, torture, assasination, dumping tons of cancer causing defolient on the mountains of south america.
    They seem quite happy to ship people off to Gitmo (or worse) for smaller offenses than being a 'terror-lord.' Aren't they still holding bin Laden's driver in Cuba? Weren't there 2 teenagers released from there about a year ago? It seems to me that the threshold for who constitutes a 'threat' in order to take away their rights is much, much lower than the WOD.

    And I'm talking aboout what the US govt. is doing to US civilians, not overseas (well, except in that passage above...)
    I imagine your sources rights infractions in the war on terror are as good as mine on rights infractions in the war on drugs.. But I think we can agree the federal government is bending if not outright braking the bill of rights etc for the war on terror in the same manor we did in the war on drugs.
    Well, I can name a few right off the top of my head - Padilla, Hamden - can you name any as easily?

    There are, of course, many different reports at this point chronicalling our apparent distain for all things human and righty in the WOT; I haven't heard much about the WOD since the 80s, so I might just be behind the times a bit.
    are there still any little tavern burger places in d.c.?
    A few, I think - I don't eat out that much. There's a place just next to my building called My Brothers Place that fits that description; never tried their food, but their beer is cold.
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  19. #19
    Spartan Mop Warrior Loyal Rogue's Avatar
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    When comparing the War on Drugs to the War on Ter-ra you have to remember that pre-WOT the government actually went before a judge and got a warrant... can we consider oversight as a right,... please?
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  20. #20
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal Rogue
    When comparing the War on Drugs to the War on Ter-ra you have to remember that pre-WOT the government actually went before a judge and got a warrant... can we consider oversight as a right,... please?
    yeah sure they did....
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