dcsimg
A Flash Developer Resource Site

Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Its been a long time....

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ryaareet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Durham, UK.
    Posts
    182

    Its been a long time....

    Hi all, used to post here quite a bit a while ago. Was just a newbie myself back then. I wanted to share my views on building games commercially. I started out as a hobby about 4 years ago. After about a year i quit my job and began a web design business without really knowing much about it but it was something I have a passion for. To promote my services I used flash. I now get about 750,000 uniques to my site a month and mostly down to the power of flash. You knwo what its like you post a game on one site and after a month (if its good enough) youll find it on a hundred other sites.

    Because of this exposure I have now built many titles for large companies including Sky TV (in the UK), Alliance and leicster ( a uk bank ) and the Beano Comic. So for all you newbies stick with it. I have been running my business for over 3 and a half years and now employ 5 people including myself. Trouble is I now spend most of my time finding business rather than creating so there is a downside.

    I now sell my scripts online, why shouldnt I get something back. The trick is to keep it simple. In my experience most companies want something easy to play and quick to get into. No fancy intro, not even fancy grafix or sound, as long as the game plays well they are happy. But most importantly get it done on time....

    I took a bit of time to get going but it can happen, I dont even advertise anymore and the work comes to us 95% of the time.

    So... keep your games simple. Stay clear of gradients (god i hate them, and it makes your games look cheap). No fancy fonts, grafix or sound, just solid gameplay. The oldies are the best. Snake, invaders, pacman, tetris, all these have worked well for me.

    Once you have a library of decent games you can keep your workload down by offering 'skinned' games. This is popular with clients as it keeps the costs down for them and workload down for you.

    I have created a simple site to sell my scripts and I would urge others to do the same. I am also offering anyone who wants to use it the opportunity to sell their own scripts using the site.

    Visit:
    http://www.flashscriptsforsale.com

    Whats better its money for old rope. Create one game and you can make decent money over 12 months reselling the same script. As long as the licence covers you. I keep the prices reasonable, which means the customers aren't shelling out a fortune.

    If anyone wants any advice on how to make the most of the scripts they are creating then feel free to PM me. I can guarantee that most of you have tons of script experiments sitting around doing nothing when they could be making money for you. I did it and it works.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    59
    Hi! Thanks for giving us some insight! It's great to hear you had success with your company I will have a look at your web page. I wish you the best on this new year 2007!
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
    (")_(")signature to help him gain world domination.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Ryaareet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Durham, UK.
    Posts
    182

    A final note..

    We get a lot of enquiries from corporate business for the flash we deliver. We are beginning to offer free script downloads on the iste so if you want to get seen then please ask me about allowing your scripts for download.

  4. #4
    file not found Captain_404's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    457
    This seems more like an advertisement for your scripts than anything else


    Still, it's good to know know that small upstart studios can still make it big.

    'course, I think I'd go insane if I was forced to reskin the same script over and over and over instead of thinking up fresh, new concepts.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Ryaareet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Durham, UK.
    Posts
    182

    Thanks

    I dont need to advertise the site on here. It does very well on its own. I want to offer the service to other starters trying to get noticed. I what better way than to deal with someone who already deals with large companies. Who knows, I may be able to offer work in the future if anyone is willing to step up to the challenge. I didnt have this opportunity so I am all to aware of the step needed to get your work noticed.

    The work we produce isnt groundbreaking by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesnt need to be, keep it simple.

    When it comes to reskinning, the trick is in building games to do it from the start. Companies are just not going to pay huge amounts of money for a 'novelty' item which 9 times out of 10 is used as a gimmicky advertising tool. But this is where most of the work will come from. You can spend the time creating 10-15 different game models and reuse them at will, adding bits here and there when needed. You can knock up a reskinned game in no time.

    What I dont do is palm of a reskinned game as an original. We are always straight with the customer and tell them what we are doing. The majority of the time the customer will say something like....' We really like this game on this site, take a look and see if you can do something similar.'.

    We just give them what they want. Simple.

  6. #6
    Game Player - Developer scheletro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    México living in Barcelona
    Posts
    1,122
    10x for the tips mate


    "I love to make them as I love to play them"

  7. #7
    Please, Call Me Bob trogdor458's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    915
    makes perfect sense to me, and if you want original ideas, go ahead and make them in between customers, get your work done early, and then modify and skin according to the wants and needs of the client

    customer or client? you've used both words, and, although you may not see a difference, clients seem less bountiful then customers

    in other words, clients seem like you're personally meeting each one, customers feel more like someone at a fastfood resteraunt

    and i heard "rags to riches" wasn't possible, good to know people can make a decent living without starting that way (my dad got to meet a self-made millionaire recently, crazy!!)

  8. #8
    Certified Jackball
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Seattle Washington
    Posts
    132
    Wow, man, thanks for the great advice! You answered a lot of questions I had and gave some interesting insight. Thanks!
    srry bout my englesh, im american

    Blog Hogger

    Hogger Studios

  9. #9
    hippie hater Cimmerian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    over there
    Posts
    599
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_404
    This seems more like an advertisement for your scripts than anything else
    Seems the same to me too
    I dont want to sound grumpy, but it seems like you have not read the knowleadge base, there are a lot more complex, coll and powerfull scripts here, and for free

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ryaareet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Durham, UK.
    Posts
    182

    Your missing the point..

    I can almost guarantee 100% that most 'Clients' will not want over complex powerful scripts. Im trying to give advice based on 3 and a half years of doing this yet people still want to knock me down.

    What i do, works. Full stop. If people want to spend days and days creating huge games then so be it.

    I mean, I do create large games, I am at the moment creating a web based game based on the old Elite trading game from years ago. A combination of flash and php allowing for an infinite universe, trading and even being able to build on every single planet and space station found in the universe. SO i dont just create small games.

    What Im saying is you will make most money out of simple games.

    Im not rich, (yet). But I do make a decent living this way. With customers like Sky TV, Alliance and Leicster, Beano Comics and Guys and St Thomas's hospital London coming my way I must be doing something right. (If yoru from the UK you will know who these are).

    If you disagree with my way if thinking then thats ok. This isnt the only way to do it.

    With clients all over the country (and world) it would be great to meet each one but it just isnt possible. The great thing about digital media is you dont have to. You can build online and the client can see work in progress any time they like.

  11. #11
    hippie hater Cimmerian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    over there
    Posts
    599
    I am not saying small games are bad
    Clients like it, cool, what i dont like is not this
    I pointed to knowleadge base because it shows that you are trying to sell us things we dont need, that are less tham the ones we can learn for free, here
    Last edited by Cimmerian; 01-01-2007 at 08:38 AM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Ryaareet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Durham, UK.
    Posts
    182

    Not selling

    Im not trying to sell anyone here anything. I guess that most people here can do what I do, which is why they use this forum, as I do.

    What I am dong is trying to give a bit of advice. That's all. Im well aware that there will be better scripts out there. There is always someone better than you somewhere. Its not about how good the script is. If it works, then who cares how it is built.

    If people want to use my service then fine, if they dont, so be it.

    I think the other thing you need to think about is the fact that as well as providing these skinned games this does lead on to getting enquiries about building bespoke products. There are a lot off offshoots from creating the simple games.

  13. #13
    Zombie Coder EvilKris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Fukuoka, Japan.
    Posts
    796
    I'm with you Ryaareet. I appreciated your advice, even if others didn't. In fact, I fully hope to create a nice, solid yet 'passive' income in a similar manner some time in the not-too-distant future. I look at everything I create now as practice in order to create the basic templates for games that companies will use and abuse to their delight in return for a reasonable fee. That's possibly the reason I try to build all my game engines myself, without relying too strongly on third-party code, so that when the s hits the fan with future clients I have a enough experience to program my way out of any emergencies.
    It would be interesting to hear about just how you started to pick up clients. Agencies? Internet advertising. I'd personally like to see that elaborated on.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Ryaareet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Durham, UK.
    Posts
    182

    Good to hear it..

    I appreciate you reply, I dont think alot of people realise the potential of Flash. I am only to happy to discuss how best to approach doing what you intend to do. Please email me at john@hbwebdesign.co.uk and I will be happy to swap ideas and advice.

  15. #15
    Hype over content... Squize's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Lost forever in a happy crowd...
    Posts
    5,928
    It's good to hear the more business side of things on here now and again, I think this board has a very blinkered view about the industry, and I totally agree about making games simple, not everything has to be a vast AAA epic.

    I know I'm one of the worst people here for enforcing the don't talk about money rule, but I couldn't help but notice that you're very cheap ( I know the bespoke design option is going to be the lowest price possible, but still, that is seems very low, unless I'm just very expensive ).

    Squize.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Ryaareet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Durham, UK.
    Posts
    182

    Pricing

    It depends on how long we have had the scripts on the site for to be honest. Most scripts go on the site for around £400 to start. By the time the price is reduced to our standard £30.00 we have made more than enough on the script.

    This version of the site is quite new so we revamped all our existing scripts with the new price. There will be many more new scripts going on but at the moment we are concentrating opening up the site to allow 3rd party scripts to be sold as well as some free downloads.

  17. #17
    Hype over content... Squize's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Lost forever in a happy crowd...
    Posts
    5,928
    I meant more the bespoke design rather than the scripts, but fair enough.

    I guess you've tried selling the scripts as more a b2b thing, selling them to design agencies, there's such a shortage of Flash game coders atm that you'd probably get a lot more for them ( Although that'd affect freelancers like myself ).

    Squize.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Ryaareet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Durham, UK.
    Posts
    182
    Well the majority of our work is web design/ecommerce. The scripts usually come about of spinoffs from other projects we do. We have tons of other stuff we just havent gotten round to putting on the site. That said, I would rather spend my time doing flash rather than web design as that is what I started off doing. The most poular title we ever did was our first. DOnt know if anyone knows of Golden Arrow 1 and 2.

    We havent yet tried selling straight b2b but maybe it is something we will consider.

  19. #19
    Student
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    -
    Posts
    4,756
    in the past I always had to write a documentation once I sold flash solution to agencies.
    Some website design template sellers seem to do the same for their desing templates they sell. It usually sums up all the important info someone totally new to the project usually needs (e.g variable/function descriptions, symbol informations and maybe some illustrations abstracting complex matters.). Don´t know if you deliver that as well or maybe that you say your movies are that simple and easy to understand that they dont need it.

    I appricate your honest and open insight into your recent success- I really wish you best luck with it in the future



    There are however (sadly) also some downsides to this topic and I just wanted to list some of them as I think it´s important to atleast know about some:


    - There are no regulations about prices, software/ mechanic patents, media or content copyrights. If people keep on trying to make buisness with something like this then there will be a big clash in the near future (see software patents orgy).
    On a sidenote: did you guys for example knew that IBM owns the patent for the progress bar used in almost any flash movie, or Adobe the tabs concept also used in many applications. I just don´t hope people will fight for the same useless crap (money) once flash is even more popular.

    - There is about 80% freeware and 20% commercial flash stuff out there- that is because the internet has the concept of everything free in itself (that´s why almost everything is payed with online advertisements). The problem however and of course is finding good quality pieces for free within a certain time. Still websites such as flashkit offer dozen of flashmovies all for free (lots of crap but sometimes even usefull stuff there).
    Maybe keep that advertisement thing in your head,- who knows some free downloads that include fixed advertisments within the game they compile.

    - I am a little bit sad that so many people are so commercial linked with flash development as it is usually poisen to forums like these. Kids in this forum start screaming because they fear that someone else is stealing their idea, concept, code or art- that is so SICK but also very sad because they try splitting up discussion into extern forums or private messages.


    oh and btw. atm. you don´t provide a sample FLA so that possible customers can see what you call simple.
    If you dont want to provide one how about placing a little tutorial showing a FLA file beeing customized on the site.

  20. #20
    Senior Member The Helmsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    _root
    Posts
    450
    2 Ryaareet: Very inspiring man, thank you very much!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  




Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width

HTML5 Development Center